Polish president sell out to new EU

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


Wether or not you like his views doesnt mean he is wrong (he is right by the way)! Europe will continue to consolidate and will more than likely lead the world in the 21st century! Either that or go down in a ball of fire!

reply to post by Euroche


What part of the Illuminati plan for a New World Order do you fail to understand?

To Euroche'

I'm not worried that the EU will not work as a group of states like the US. I'm worried that you poor souls will end up with what Hitler invisioned. A group of peoples enslaved by a UN type group. Only it will be a group that doesn't have the brains to actualy let you have any freedom. Just keep paying and paying into the Union and get nothing in return.


Zindo


[edit on 7/5/2008 by ZindoDoone]

I see the creation of the EU much the same as the Unification of the States of America. It will definetly bring benefits to Europe, for example, the combined military spending of European countries is $250 Billion a year, yet it's military effectiveness is 1/10th that of the USA www.spacewar.com....
A combined army will bring the efficiency needed for the EU common army to rival that of the USA.

However, like with the USA (and China, Russia, Iran, Zimbabwe etc), centralisation of power (fascism) can bring it's own problems. Democracy will most likely take a back seat to the will of the elite. I think this is a great opportunity Europe, but they need to make the right decisions early and maintain their traditions of full democracy.

Originally posted by Euroche
Excellent news.

Europe is the way forward. Ireland should not be allowed to stand in the way of a much greater project. That's not democracy. That's less than half a million people in one of the smallest EU countries blocking the development and progress of the rest of Europe.

Could you tell me what do you mean? Have you red new treaty? I guess the answer is big F@$%ing NO
Oh, man you are brainwashed for sure.

reply to post by FIFIGI


And is suppose you have read the new treaty front to back???Not the condensed version the actuall full treaty???I think not!You need a law degree to understand it and access to all the other treaties that this one amends, cause that is all it does, change a few words in the old treaties, and inserts a few new paragraphs which will be very beneficial to europe as a whole! If you fail to see the benefits of a more streamlined and cost effective europe then thats your problem.

Ireland should in fact be left stand in the way of "progress"....why i hear you ask..well its simple...thats the way the system works, it was voted on and ratified by all member states! I am very pro-europe and i believe this treaty is the way forward but to suggest that one country blocking the rest isnt fair when in fact it was previously agreed thats the way things work (nice treaty) is utter stuipidity on your or any one elses part who thinks like that!

I just find it interesting that people go on about democracy so much and then support the idea that the will of less than half a million people can stand in the way of the whole of Europe.

That's not democracy. That's obstruction. It's fair. But its also fair that the rest of Europe will use their collective will to bring about a more amicable solution.

Originally posted by Robhaidheuch
reply to post by Euroche

 

What part of the Illuminati plan for a New World Order do you fail to understand?

The part where i put my tin-foil hat on

reply to post by Euroche


True democracy does not allow tyranny of the masses. Just because the majority has been duped does not make it right. I believe most would change they're minds if they where actualy aware of the pitfalls of this particular treaty for the takeover of Europe.


Zindo

Originally posted by Euroche

I just find it interesting that people go on about democracy so much and then support the idea that the will of less than half a million people can stand in the way of the whole of Europe.

That's not democracy. That's obstruction. It's fair. But its also fair that the rest of Europe will use their collective will to bring about a more amicable solution.

Just over half those who voted, voted no! Throughout Europe that is!

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Pro-genetic]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


That's because they are told that Europe is a bad thing. The benefits of Europe are never sold to the people; they are only told the most ridiculous falsehoods and negative aspects.

The EU has brought alot of prosperity to Europe. For once the governments actually have it right for once. And its across the board. There isn't one European nation that isn't committed to the idea of the EU and greater consolidation.

Originally posted by Pro-genetic
reply to post by FIFIGI

 

And is suppose you have read the new treaty front to back???Not the condensed version the actuall full treaty???I think not!You need a law degree to understand it and access to all the other treaties that this one amends, cause that is all it does, change a few words in the old treaties, and inserts a few new paragraphs which will be very beneficial to europe as a whole! If you fail to see the benefits of a more streamlined and cost effective europe then thats your problem.

Look mate, i know exactly what you are saying in regards benefits of already received and the future benefits for All member states - anyone who says their country hasn't benefited and will not continue to do so in a number of big ways because of the EU is simply blind to the facts.


But you should also consider these points which will occur if the treaty comes into effect:


1) The central powers in the EU can (if needs be) take it upon themselves to make big changes to the way a specific EU country is run without the need to have the changes passed through that nations parliament..

2) A combined Eu army and increased spending is fine for protection..but add that to the new loophole saying that - even though every european has the right to life, execution in times of conflict or to quell conflict WILL BE LEGAL!!! this has the same old story of Europe going back 2000+ years written all over it... LEGAL GENOCIDE etc!!!

3)The Eu is funded by the same people who fund the US..(because most of them are European)..Look what is and has been happening with the US for the last 3 decades. Corporations running the Eu will be the worst thing for anyone...
"Born, Work, Buy, Consume, Die - and do it with sweet F@ckall rights! If you dont like it...we'll kill you because you are going to cause trouble...and its legal"

4)And it is all being done publicly with a smile while they take your sovereign power and coerce your leaders to sign a treaty under threat of shunning. All leading towards a continent state run by the rich. Power corrupts..absolute power does so absolutely!

I am pro Eu and think it was the best idea for uniting this extremely cross cultural continent...

But there is a lot more to the European Union agenda that meets the Eye








[edit on 16/06/08 by Dermo]

It increases the prosperity of Europe. It creates new consumers; reduces poverty and various other problems such as immigrants, lax borders and illegal immigration.

That's yet another joke right there!!

Since we started signing up to various things in Europe, our borders have never been more insecure!! We have a serious immigrant problem in this country, directly attributable to Europe. The problem immigrants are from the Eastern Bloc who are now a part of Europe.

We are unable to close and secure our borders precisely because of Europe. Instead, we're having to kick out the only people who do anything good for us like the Americans, Canadians and the Australians. I feel sorry for those guys.

Instead, we're letting in the trash who only come here to collect our unemployment benefits and child benefits. Christ - we even have Polish people coming over here to work, claiming our benefits, then if that isn't bad enough - SENDING IT BACK HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES IN POLAND! These same people fly back home for weekends!

You talk of redistributing wealth - it's bankrupting the nations who can't afford it (i.e. the UK).

WAKE UP FOR GODS SAKE BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE!

As soon as I can, I'm leaving the UK and the EU for another place. I'm sick of this crap.

We created a new piece of legislation allegedly to curb immigration, but the thing is - it only applies to those coming in from outside the EU! We can't (under EU law) make it apply to everyone. Hardly fair!! Instead of making things better, they've got worse, and more is yet to come.

After the EU Treaty comes into effect and they've forced it through in Ireland, I'd hate to see what's next. Hopefully I won't be here to see that day.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


Complete Rethoric! Hitler used the same argument with the jews! Blameing them for the woes of germany, your blameing the LEGAL imigrants from poland for britains problems!

It has been documented time and time again that eastern european countries sending people here is good for your economy aswell as mine (Ireland).

I honestly find that statement so stupid its not even funny! And as for curbing imigrants the uk along with Ireland can stop anyone comeing to our shores, clauses have been set up for just that, your government stoped all Romanian people from comeing over to your country when they first joined.

I'm not to sure but i think that that ban is still in place.so there goes your argument that you cant control who comes into your country!
Ans as for you leaving Europe....Do us all a favour, we will be better off without your ignorance.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Pro-genetic]

To Dermo
1) show legislation backing up your claims!

2)The EU army is such a good idea, our pooled resources will go so further. Americas army is made and designed for attack, the European one for defense, just look at the difference between our navys! Why would this change all of a sudden????

3)Since when has any democratic western country been any different??????????? you either worked for a big company or a small company!

4)There not taking anything, the citizens of europe are pooling sovernity not giving it up! And countries have always been run by the rich....ALWAYS...SINCE THE DAWN OF CIVILIZATION!



[edit on 6-7-2008 by Pro-genetic]

You should stop comparing europe with the 3th reich.
The usa is doing the invading, europe is helping and doesnt deserve to be called a 3th reich.

Europe WILL be united, but only when most countries agree with a real democratic constitution.
And then europe will regain it former glory very rapidly, because europe was always the home of the most influential superpowers in the world.
Europe is mixing their economies faster than you can say #, theres nothing you can do about it.
America is a union of states, if you can do it why cant we do it in europe?!

The problem is with all of this, that they ignored the people and doing what they want to get progress. If you somehow believe the people actually have a say in what happens, you have another thing coming. Same goes if you think this will change once the treaty is ratified.

EDIT: As far as the Polish president changing his mind. Well he definitely got some benefits or threats. Either or... I'm going on both. Anyone who believes otherwise is just denying what is in front of them.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by ragnarak]

reply to post by Pro-genetic


Reading your posts is like reading a BNP newsletter. It's all bluster and rhetoric and no substance.

Before it was the Irish who were major immigrants to this country. Now that country is richer than we are. Now it is the poles and the eastern bloc countries - and nearly all of which have booming economies.

In ten years time these countries will be much more developed with money to spend. Their links to this country will be a benefit to us when they look to invest their new found wealth in this country.

You just wait and see. Europe is better and will keep on getting better.
As these nations rise up the prosperity that they hold will then allow them to contribute to further development.

reply to post by ragnarak


I don't think the average sun reader is a good judge of such a important framework. That's what we have parliament there for. That is their job.

The EU is the future. It's not going to break up, and it does need reform. Everyone recognises this.

reply to post by Euroche


eh....I think you must have mis-read my post! im saying that imigrants are good and defending there right to come to britain and Ireland(or anywhere for that matter)!