The HAARP Myth

HAARP may electrically change the atmosphere but so what.

However one may say that it is for communications purposes.

The fact that Tesla investigated the weather changing capabilities
of static electricity, move ionized clouds with a beam or signal,
does not mean that the government would ever use something
they stole from Tesla and let some one patent.

OK that would be weather control al la Tesla.

Remember the government never ever had anything to do with
Mr. N. Tesla. July 10, 2008 will be the 152nd anniversary of his
birth in 1856. Keep it in front of the Illuminati and see if TV has
anything new except silence or the typical lies one hears on
the net.

At 100 years, 1956 was the year of the perfect game in the world series,
lets start to get his story right before 153rd year.
In your face Illuminati.

I am spending my summer in Fairbanks too! I havent noticed the sky being torn apart, or any earthquakes there either!

Originally posted by justamomma
my problem w/ HAARP and other such projects is not based in myth. it is based in nature. when you start experimenting w/ things in nature that have never been before

While I agree with you, there are no detrimental affects on the ionosphere from HAARP. The amount of energy required would be absolutely phenomenal. The sun actually affects it more than anything, thats how aurora borealis and aurora australis occur, from the magnetic field of solar wind colliding with the magnetically charged ionopshere. If anything HAARP will tell us more about how this mechanism works

in all fairness... when it comes to nature, i think we should just LET nature rule.. lol that is just me. disasters and such happen for a reason.... it is the natural population control.

Lol, I sought of agree with that too. Natural disasters are a natural culling process, but I think we should still have use science to understand how these things work

Originally posted by firepilot
I am spending my summer in Fairbanks too! I havent noticed the sky being torn apart, or any earthquakes there either!

Hey firepilot. I am in Fairbanks area now...but leaving good ol Alaska in less then one week (wooohooo). Anyways, how you loving this heat? I was told that it doesnt get hot here in Alaska

Anyways...we do have a lot of earthquakes here, but they are usually really small ones that arent very noticable.

HAARP causes warts. HARRP causes hives. HAARP causes flatulance. HAARP causes baldness. HAARP causes mold and mildew. HAARP causes screaming meeemies. HAARP causes EVERY DAMN THING THAT IS WRONG WITH ME NOT WINNING POWER BALL!!!!!!! I know its true cuz I heeerd it on da radio!!!!!

Zindo

Again I ask. What are the military applications? Russias haarp was tied in with Chernobyl. It does take massive amounts of power. With row upon row of high output generators.
Gakona is a front for a more massive layout.

Ok I've asked twice nicely. What IS the military aspect of HAARP?!

No takers. Oz, I don't know you from Adam. Have no beef with you, but when you lay down your ideas like gentrified fact I take issue with you.
Especially the lights over china 20 minutes before eq.

I'm sure you are a very reputable nice person. But your agenda is clearly visible to me.

[edit on 7/5/2008 by jpm1602]

As far as I can tell.
HAARP has an official communications operations cover or what
it apparently does from a posting of a patent and discussion I
happened to check out.

However, the conspiracy theory side is it is an oil company backed
operation to control the weather to sell more oil.

That, thusly is not a military operation but an Illuminati uber
government operation. Getting away with fooling the people and
the government letting the elite use patents against us.


Apparently with the China earthquake, the generation the high energy
cloud that lit up the sky was ac static that forced under surfaces
of the earth to move.

So it is military in that the Illuminati controls the military because it
is always developing weapons it uses in the name of the government.
The Illuminati got Clinton to bomb in the name of hitting Osama's
operations. Mostly due to the Pentagon, Monica and the promise of
you bomb and you will not be Impeached.

With Bush, who knows what happened. The Illuminati is in there
somewhere. You figure it out, I can't.

For the most part, opening comments are somewhat true.

There is always something else not mentioned.

The radio operates within the ham bands. They run tests several times a year for this or that. They will perform bounces of the moon or atmospheric bounces which hams do.

Here's the rub. Hams use much less power and do the same thing. On a scale that is just in fractional percentages of power the HAARP array is capable of using. Let's just put on the thinking cap and think a little bit.

On atmospheric bounces, there is a certain amount of RF energy absorbed by the atmosphere. This absorption rate changes with frequency with better results by minor absorption meaning more energy left for the signal to travel further, or more absorption which means the atmosphere just dissipates the signal and absorbs all the RF energy. A radio operator tries to keep the absorption rate low so the signal goes further. He/she is trying to communicate with someone else.

With the thinking cap still on, what would happen if you transmit RF energy with the hopes of absorption. Think of loose terms of a microwave oven, (I hate this example because it is a different frequency but does apply) things will heat up. Now on the ham scale, not much happens because the power is so low. What if we bump up the power to say, 3 million watts. Now it gets interesting.

Would a bump be caused in the ionosphere from this localized heating of a relatively small area? Some say yes, others say no, I say I don't know. With the ability to aim the signal, and if it happens to be placed in a position of a low over passing satellites, would this theoretical bump cause the satellite to alter orbit or even cause enough drag for it to fall out of orbit?

Someone, who would be a fairly smart person, could probably figure out why the array was placed were it was and then look at some satellite trajectories to see if this theory holds water.

As for the rest of the theories I hear about HAARP, no; it's just people not understanding technical things.

Originally posted by jpm1602
So what do you think the well publicized 'military applications' are Oz? Communication with subs in the short band?

Military applications....


What apart from the ionosphere behavioural research they are doing?

reply to post by hinky


On top of a low frequency positioning signal the agitating frequency
hits at the top of the wave.

It has to be circular polarized for some reason which would use a
corkscrew antenna but the phased array layout is obvious and
provides the same effect.

Well, circular to spin the atoms into ionization.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
The fact that Tesla investigated the weather changing capabilities
of static electricity, move ionized clouds with a beam or signal,
does not mean that the government would ever use something
they stole from Tesla and let some one patent.

The reason Tesla did not succeed at this was due to the lack of understandin about meteorology back in those days. To alter weather on a small scale means changing the weather over a large scale. Just ionizing the clouds isnt going to work. Parameters such as wind speed, humidity, cloud, jets stream location, pressure systems, cold and warm fronts, upper air weather and upper air wind all need to be changed. In my opinion this is not plauisble, let alone possible.

These days there is a greater understanding of meteorology, this is why I think weather modification (using HAARP) is not being done

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Okay, OzWeatherman, a few things I have to dispute you on here on a few of your facts vs myth.

First, I have a few questions for you though. Okay?

Are you a natural born citizen of Australia?

What do you know of American Government and Military?

Do you know anything of Nikolai Tesla?

I think your perspective on weather is great, and teaching science here on the ATS boards is great as well, but you left an awful lot of details out of your "facts" in the original post there in regards to H.A.A.R.P., that are glaringly obvious to anyone who knows the U.S. Government, Military, and Continuity of Government facilities, as well as D.A.R.P.A.

Here are a few websites for ATS'ers persual on all things H.A.A.R.P. to do your own independant research :

Wikipedia - H.A.A.R.P. - High Frequency Active Aural Research Program

Wikipedia - Advanced Power Technologies

Wikipedia - D.A.R.P.A. - Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency

Okay, all those website links are directly from Wikipedia on H.A.A.R.P.

H.A.A.R.P. - Alaska

H.A.A.R.P. - Fact Sheet - Department of Defense
Question Number 2, on H.A.A.R.P.'s own website references D.A.R.P.A., or Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and it's involvement.

Question Number 5, on H.A.A.R.P.'s own website references Department of Defense involvement.

Now, OzWeatherman, I'm respectfully leaving any direct reference to H.A.A.A.R.P. being a "weather" machine out of this altogether, but, for anyone who is not familiar, and I am not claiming you are or are not, with the people at D.A.R.P.A. and the Department of Defense, they never, never ever, get involved with something that does not have a potential to later be deployed as a potential weapon of some sort.

Oh yeah, and the date of 1990, is the date when H.A.A.R.P. was turned from a Military Installation into a Civilian one, still funded militarily though, which is in essence a side-step of the regular organizational procedures of the military, meaning it's officially gone to one of the scientific endeavors, and can be officialy denied as Government owned and operated.

I'll have to find the source information where I got that about the date, but I knew about H.A.A.R.P. as a six year old and I am now thirty-five years old, you do the math there, it's way before 1990, I guarantee you that.

If I remember facts correctly though, and I usually do, H.A.A.R.P. was started during the 1950's as a Military Installation/Scientific Installation, and is as well a patent of Nikolai Tesla. Whether it is a weapon or not, is of course in controversy and is something that's been hotly disputed for a very long time mate.

Do I believe you're a "disinfo agent"? Who knows, but I wouldn't care if you were or not. I posted on your other thread about that very subject and kept it neutral, just like here.

Personally, it is with strong convictions and belief in Government's ability to do whatever it wants through side-railing the citizens through lies and cover-ups, as well as things like Continuity of Government, where they assure their own survival while the average citizens is left in question, that this particular installation is not only a means to intercept radio communication but as well to be able to block it.

Wikipedia - Continuity of Goverment

Continuity of Government Commission

OzWeatherman, I enjoy our chats in ATS chat, and I harbor you no ill will, just know that there's always more to what it is that's shown when it comes to the American Government and anything connected to the Military.

Personally, I believe, H.A.A.R.P. will be a source of radio transmission, in conjunction with the Verichip/Digital Angel biochip device and the cell phone towers as well as OnStar, cell phones, GPS, XM Radio/Sirius Radio, any other tracking device or RFID, Radio Frequency Identification Device, so that the Government of the World, or World Government can track our every movement, watch out spending habits through the biochip being your credit card, Driver's License, Social Security Card, every identifying number you currently have or will have in the future.

The problem I see with this? I do not trust any Government, let alone a conglormerate of Government's nor any combination of corporations with this much power over My personal information. That's power to the extreme, and they do not EVER deserve that much trust from anyone.

Government, is made up of people, plain and simple, who often make major mistakes, have political agendas, or are just plain ruthless to begin with and hide it well.

During the Cold War, the Department of Defense as well as the Pentagon were always competing with the Russian's for Weapons of Mass Destruction as well as the MAD Program, or Mutually Assured Destruction through Nuclear Missiles to even the potential for weather manipulation.

Sura Facility - Nizhniy Novgorod, Russia

Wikipedia - SURA - Ionospheric Heating Facility


[edit on 8-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by jpm1602
Again I ask. What are the military applications? Russias haarp was tied in with Chernobyl. It does take massive amounts of power. With row upon row of high output generators.
Gakona is a front for a more massive layout.

Ok I've asked twice nicely. What IS the military aspect of HAARP?!

No takers. Oz, I don't know you from Adam. Have no beef with you, but when you lay down your ideas like gentrified fact I take issue with you.
Especially the lights over china 20 minutes before eq.

I'm sure you are a very reputable nice person. But your agenda is clearly visible to me.

[edit on 7/5/2008 by jpm1602]

yes ,, I see that oz has managed to debunk TESLA
wow......... ok

MILITARY APPLICATIONS ....hmmmmmmmmmmm
communicating with subs..ok ....what else?

Massive amounts of POWER, Billions of watts, that can be focused
into a small area ... no... that couldn`t cause any adverse effects
now could it?......
is oz privy to Top level military secrets??
if so then I guess I might take his word for it.

but I`m with you jpm. something stinks here...

they(J.P Morgan and friends) made headlines calling it the
DEATH RAY in order to discredit Tesla ...wow just like fox news .

you see j.p Morgan was the money man for Thomas Edison...

is anyone starting to see the picture yet?

on another note
Tesla invented ac alternating current.
WHY did I not ever even hear of Tesla in school??

WTF..... is everything hidden and or distorted with lies..???

I doubt HAARP is all it's cracked out to be. If the conspiracy was true than Iran would be a third would country by now. People just like to dream up magnificent conspiracies to satisfy their amusement.

reply to post by amfirst

you gotta take off your blinders...

iran? what does that have to do with haarp?

IRAN is an world stage event that has nothing to do with the alleged nukes or that they are aiding the terrorist in Iraq....what good would it do for the "world event"
if it was a secret strike like an earthquake or some other haarp attack.???

this makes no sense at all..
and what? take ALL the fun away from the military and the N.W.O...
and the WHOLE PLANNED WAR ON TERROR?????

...take a few steps back and try to see the bigger picture....
follow the Money and the Power....

Originally posted by Maya432
on another note
Tesla invented ac alternating current.
WHY did I not ever even hear of Tesla in school??

WTF..... is everything hidden and or distorted with lies..???

Everything of Tesla's was locked away for years.
Some non critical items were given to Serbia for a Tesla Museum.
Meanwhile by the 1950s 500 of 700 of Tesla's patents were classified.
Much like any energy device, Tesla technology is hidden by the
corporations and government under national security reasons.
The vapor carburetor used on the Sherman tank to give it extra
mileage was taken off the tanks and sent back to Standard Oil of
New Jersey and smashed to bits.

HAARP has it own gas field and pipe line so there is plenty of power.
Ionizing frequency is riding on top on the low frequency targeting wave.
Since energy is a concern, non believers in gaseous aether response
will have their way but there is energy in the electrically sensitive so
called 'dark matter' in the air.

If H2 get heated and becomes atomic 2H, the ether response is
100 times the input heat is exerted when recombining.
Any Hydrogen up there.

We do not know all the aether responses but we do know some
nuclear responses. The utility of atomic gases has been overlooked.

I never payed much attention to HAARP so find some good discussion
for a better understanding. I came across the patent posted which
even has the gas line written in. If the US OKs your patent, you are
as good as gold to go ahead with what is stated in the patent.

Would the government secretly make a weather weapon covered
as a communications project?

ED: The free energy scientists can't say anything, or go against
National Security. Many patents are made to prevent their use.
However the powerful FE devices will never be patented.
HAARP must say funded as a government project.
Or tax corporations and us for some useful reason they say
HAARP in doing for us.




[edit on 7/8/2008 by TeslaandLyne]

reply to post by Maya432


Tesla may or may not have been taught in your school, but there are endless resources where you can do some research on him. Here's a book on Amazon you might want to consider, and of course you can go to the public library for free books as well.

Tesla: Man Out of Time

Here's a link, within ATS, on our Google Search, of other ATS'ers who are talking about Tesla :

Above Top Secret : Google Search Box : Tesla Research

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Okay, so here's a F.O.I.A., or Freedom Of Information Act document, from ATS's F.O.I.A. Forum area. It directly relates to communications and dual-use technology for H.A.A.R.P.

FOIA: HAARP Research and Applications Joint Program Report : ATS

Once you go to that website link, on ATS, to Clifford Stone's F.O.I.A. documents, you will find this PDF.

F.O.I.A. PDF Document : Dual-Use Communications Applications of H.A.A.R.P. On ATS

What's hilarious, and odd together, is I went outside ATS to see what I could find documented about H.A.A.R.P. being released to civilians agencies, and I put in the search words in Yahoo : HAARP released civilian I found a direct link back to ATS.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Are we in with big brother or the free energy police (FEP)?

pdf. pg10 - report page 8
Refers to HAARP as a heater. Does this create problems in the ionosphere?
If the Ionosphere is a protective shield, why pierce it?


Any one read that part.

Do we suspect ether heating as in the H2 to 2H recombination boost
of 1000 fold or just the powerful gas reserves given the project that
provides radio wave heating.

Microwave type heating might be the intent but if an ether boost is
sought we do not hear it from the FEP.

It is counter to the Second Law of Thermodynamics and Relativism
so the Illuminati FEP are in control.

If the oil companies started the suppression or cheating with diluted
gas they are a sorry bunch now.
And with gas and oil prices going up the FEP are just making everyone's
life a little more uncomfortable.

Only since 1993, perhaps sooner, the error of Illuminati controls have
been pointed out.