The Cure For Hospital Madness

Originally posted by tebyenYou're half right on mine. Acute appendicitis and severe peritonitis. I was in ICU for 4 days.

Well then let's just say I was right. Peritonitis often results from untreated appendicitis. The appendicitis no doubt caused the peritonitis.

When you mentioned your brother I thought that meant you both had symptoms at the same time.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Sonya610]

So, what caused the "acute appendicitis and severe peritonitis"?

Bad diet?

Did they cure your problem, or did they find the reason the problem happened? There is a big difference.

i've worked in the O.R. at a hospital for a little while now, and i've had first-hand experience in seeing how it's so easy to bill a patient for anything.. it really is all about the money, and not about the patient's well-being! don't get me wrong, the patient care is very good, BUT, when you see more patients being admitted than the hospital can handle for planned surgeries, like not having floor beds for the patients, or not having enough rooms for all the patients, it kinda shows you how greedy they really are. otherwise they'd schedule the surgeries for the days with lighter work-loads...

also, if they accidentally open something, or drop it on the floor, and can no longer use it, it still goes on the bill! there was one time a patient's instruments weren't the right size, and the correct size wasn't anywhere to be found in the state! she was in the O.R. for half an hour - they were going to charge her for the O.R. time and the instruments they opened up, unless she disputed it!

i should start up my own thread with some of the atrocities i see there..

First, to the OP – you do not know depression. You know hardship and loss. They are totally different animals.

You are right, nothing feels as good as helping someone else. When I'm on antidepressants I can do that. When I'm not I sometimes can't brush my own teeth.

Antidepressants are overprescribed. I don't think anyone doubts that. But there is such a thing as real depression that requires medication (and therapy also) for survival. It has nothing whatsoever to do with life circumstances – it can hit when you are busy and happy and your life is filled with love and friends. It did for me. It all just stopped mattering.

It's kind of like your argument about hospitals. If I understand you correctly, you are arguing that hypochondriacs should stay the heck out of hospitals at least in part so that those who really need help can get it.

Stay the heck out of the antidepressant debate so that those of us who need help can get it, please.

On the topic of hospitals, I want to make a couple points. One problem is that so many people in the U.S. are uninsured or underinsured. An emergency room, by law, cannot turn away a sick patient. A doctor's office can and will. So, if you have no insurance and your kid needs a doctor to listen to his lungs and make sure that the cough is just a flu and not something really serious, you go to the ER. This is a waste of time for everyone, but it's their only choice.

(Yes, Sonya, the other choice is to refuse the uninsured medical care. As someone who was uninsured for several years as an adult and went without medical care at that time, I liked to know that if something really scary happened – appendicitis, let's say – the ER wouldn't turn me away. If I had been a parent, I probably would have resorted to an occasional visit.)

Doctors, mostly, and certainly the ones you're going to see in an ER, are not all about the money. It is a hard, long, stressful life that just doesn't pay as well as people think. Yes, there are exceptions, and I'm sure that it's worse in most parts of the country than here in a big city. But doctors, as individuals, mostly just want to help people get well.

Finally, when a patient is charged for something like gauze that can't be used because it was dropped, that is not a deliberate act by the nurse to get more money out of the patient. That idea is absurd. It is the way that hospitals bill, in an attempt to keep costs down by forcing the staff to account for everything they open. Medical professionals are not out to screw the patient and overcharge them.

Most unnecessary procedures are recommended either out of fear of litigation if all the bases aren't covered, or in hopes of making up some losses by getting the medicare/medicaid/insurance systems to cough up extra. That's not right, and it's harmful in the long run, but it's totally different (in my opinion) to trying to suck the patient dry.

/endrant

would you like to know the best advice i've ever received from a surgeon?? he said:

never receive medical advice from a surgeon!

he went on to say that the surgeon thinks of helping people with surgery alone, so if you ask him something, obviously he's going to think of what type of surgery he needs to perform to fix the patient, whether or not there's a more suitable alternative cure or remedy that can be applied...

personally, i'd rather hunt for my own medical advice on the internet than ask a doctor... asking the doctor's now my last resort, after i research my ailment personally online, or in books

But why would you be going to a surgeon for medical advice in the first place? Usually you only see a surgeon once an internist has determined that you should have a consult, right?

Unless, of course, you come into the ER with a spike sticking out of your gut or something, in which case a surgeon's probably what you want.

I agree about researching your own medical condition, absolutely. So that you can avoid unnecessary hassles – and spending a morning waiting for a doctor to tell you you have a cold is an unnecessary hassle – and so that you can discuss your condition with your doctor without being overwhelmed by the new information.

Originally posted by ALLis0NE
I am no doctor, but I know for a fact that probably 50% or more of the patients in the hospital really don't need to be there. They rely on doctors and medications way to much.

Yes and no. For many major medical centers (Take mine for example) there are several factors in play these days.

1) patients are sicker. Our floor units take children who when I started my pediatric ICU career would have spent weeks in the ICU. The ICU's have kids even sicker as our skill and technology are allowing us to save kids that used to just die.

2) Liability. having been burned by greedy lawyers and greedy patients doctors are covering thier own butts and do admit patients that sometimes should just stay at home. This adds to the already burdened system. People should be compensated for malpractice, but the legal community has gotten out of hand.

3) Documentation: See number 2. Since hospitals and doctors do not want to get sued, the paperwork required is out fo hand. For a 1 hour transport that nothing happens, it generates 3 hours of paperwork. Dont get me started on computer charting either. It takes longer

It would be great if hospitals had computers with internet access, or computer programs that help pin-point your problems by narrowing down the symptoms, this would make doctor visits less likely. There are many medical website today that do just that.

I agree, but who would want to take on that liability in this current environment?

I think educating parents and children with a few medical notes would reduce the demand at hospitals, which would decrease the cost of health insurance.

Amen, it would but its neerly impossible to get funding for these type of prevention activities right now.

Take for example having a kid...... You have to have to pass tests etc, to drive a car, bus, or airplane. You cannot practice medicine or be a nurse without alot of education and testing, you cannot design building etc etc etc. but......

Having a kid? You can have as many as you want as often as you are able without ever having to demonstrate your fitness and ZERO education. Thats where we should start IMHO

Medications and doctors for depression?!!?!?! This is a new low, nobody should ever take medications or see a doctor for depression! Just find something to make you happy!

Alas its just not that simple for some people and depression is not that easily treated. Medication for clinical depression is a usefull tool but........

The problem as I see it is that people are getting these drugs from thier GP's and not specialists. Depression meds can and do help people but they need to be prescribed very carefully by someone who is trained in the area. Not some doc who rotated through the psych ward 10 years ago as a resident.


[edit on 11/1/08 by FredT]

Originally posted by americandingbat
So, if you have no insurance and your kid needs a doctor to listen to his lungs and make sure that the cough is just a flu and not something really serious, you go to the ER. This is a waste of time for everyone, but it's their only choice.

Finally, when a patient is charged for something like gauze that can't be used because it was dropped, that is not a deliberate act by the nurse to get more money out of the patient.

First of all they DO have a choice. Believe it or not doctors also take CASH, i have gone without insurance for extended periods of time and if I got sick had to go I simply paid. Radical idea huh? When I cut my arm severely and ended up in the emergency room I paid for that too. They were incompetent and I probably could have sued them after the fact but nevertheless I paid the bill.

Secondly if I go to McDonalds and order a hamburger and the cookdrops it on the floor by accident, I do NOT expect to pay for the hamburger he dropped AND pay for the one that I eat. They drop it, they pay for it.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Secondly if I go to McDonalds and order a hamburger and the cookdrops it on the floor by accident, I do NOT expect to pay for the hamburger he dropped AND pay for the one that I eat. They drop it, they pay for it.

I'm going to just agree to disagree on who can afford medical care, but I do want to clarify my statement here.

I don't mean to defend hospital billing practices, just to point out that it is not a deliberate attempt by the nurse to run up the patient's bill. Would you advocate taking it out of the nurse's salary?

I don't know what an ideal answer would be – I understand that a hospital has to make sure that supplies are not being used wastefully, but I agree that it seems wrong to charge the patient.

But I really wouldn't want a nurse to use a piece of gauze that had been dropped so that they didn't have to open a new package and pay for it out of their paycheck. Not to mention, I think it's reasonable to expect some "waste" – for example, multiple sizes of needles might get taken out of supplies because one isn't sure which will work best on that patient. Who pays?

Originally posted by americandingbat
I'm going to just agree to disagree on who can afford medical care, but I do want to clarify my statement here.

The problem is people KNOW they can get it for free at an emergency room so why on earth WOULD they spend $50 or $75 bucks at a local clinic?

Hey if they are flat broke and the problem is life threatening, that is one thing. But a lot of times it is NOT life threatening, and they could afford to pay for a local clinic, they just don't feel like they should have to.

Even you saying if you had kids you would use the emergency clinic if they caught a bad cold and you worried about pneumonia. You do not say IF it was an emergency and IF you didn't have any money, you just say you would use emergency regardless, because even if you had the money you apparently would NOT want to spend it on a clinic!

[edit on 2-11-2008 by Sonya610]

[edit on 2-11-2008 by calihan123]

reply to post by Sonya610


Don't try to project too much from my statement that if I had kids I probably would have used the emergency clinic at some point during the time that I was uninsured. After all, I didn't have kids – that was just my best guess as to how I would behave if, rather than me being sick and broke, it was my child. Knowing an option is there and being grateful for it does not automatically mean that I will abuse it.

What's more, since I don't lie on forms and suchlike, I would end up with the bill eventually – they just couldn't refuse to treat me because it wasn't clear where the money would come from.

There are many people in this world who don't fit neatly into the simplified dichotomy of "productive members of society" vs. "lazy leeches".