Lucifer: An Experiment in Duality and Free Will

I don't believe that Satan,Lucifer and the Serpent are the same entity.
The Serpent tempted Eve and Eve forfeited her innocence.perfection and freedom
God is imperfect because of one premise
God cannot say WE exist in perfection

No, I believe it was indeed Satan who tempted Jesus. A serpent would have been ludicrous as Jesus was not innocent as Adam and Eve. What difference does it make if Satan, Lucifer and the Serpent are one?

We perhaps have to define perfect or perfection: I asked God what it meant years ago, and the answer that came to me was: "In one word - Freedom!"

As time moves forward we may be given even more free will and the choice to discover what "freedom" means. But he went on to say; "Freedom from all bondage."

Take from that what you will!

Great thread, Mad Hatter. Very thought-provoking. The responses are likewise very good and I appreciate having a place to discuss all of this subject matter.

Perhaps, as was suggested earlier, that we are indeed in a "virtual reality" of separateness from The Source. Certainly, the purest definition of "being separate from God" (as it were) would qualify this existence as "Hell"; ever-repeating until we get our "karma" aligned enough to rejoin whatever Source we came from - and that indeed "Lucifer" (by whatever name) is performing the ultimate service to all of Us by tempering our spirit.

I find no fault with that - in fact, it's the most likely scenario.

Cheers to all !

[edit on 2-7-2008 by Kargill]

I tend to equate Lucifer with Ego, Satan with Id, and Christ with Superego. You can sub in equivalents from practically any other religion too. It's a bit old fashioned but seems to fit pretty well when I consider the various folks from each camp and their worldview. I think Jung nailed it when he suggested the gods are externalisations of the inner self. I also agree there is sacred geometry encoded in the stories, as that's how they tended to teach stuff back then.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
I tend to equate Lucifer with Ego, Satan with Id, and Christ with Superego. You can sub in equivalents from practically any other religion too. It's a bit old fashioned but seems to fit pretty well when I consider the various folks from each camp and their worldview. I think Jung nailed it when he suggested the gods are externalisations of the inner self. I also agree there is sacred geometry encoded in the stories, as that's how they tended to teach stuff back then.

you could say the same about adam lillith and eve. I just read the gnostic book of judas and it brings much light to my mind. The gospel of judas is proven to be written and perserved just like every other canon of the bible. Yet the vatican and othe babylonian/roman powers sought to keep this knowledge from everyone otherwise all there power over others was worthless. From what i perceived of it jesus taught belief in yourselves through belief in himself and even after he was gone we could still do this. But all his other disciples couldnt see the balance and thought only of themselves and there path to greater good. It also states it wasnt judas who betrayed christ but juda a son of a pharisse. I suggest everyone read the translations themselves. It will give you a whole new balanced belief is everything and everyone...just like it prophesized when it would be found and revered...after 2000...this copy was written in 280-290 ad and in a ink that would last over time like the writer knew it needed preservation. This time period was when all canon were being written and brought together by the gov't to be used as a religion to conquer with. just check out the spread of power after the council of nicea. Anywho most luciferians and satanists are taking literal english translations of hebrew in ignorance and dont see the greater picture of how belief can both stagnant and free the worlds development. Again everyone please read this Gnostic gospel of Judas it is amazing.

love ya all

reply to post by daemonicsoul

Again everyone please read this Gnostic gospel of Judas it is amazing.

Yes, I really enjoyed it also. There are so many books that are intriguing and are eye opening. "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," "The Jesus Papers," & "The Mythmaker - Paul and the Invention of Christianity."

God can use anyone, and anything, to get new information out, or accurate truths.

Awesome post my friend I found it fascinating to say the least, however is it possible that Satan is in fact the Duality of god and not a separate entity ? Devil/Evil & God/Good just like the rest of this Creation has duality built in although it could be stated that these opposites are separate without the other they have no point of reference.

If everthing was light and darkness had no representation then we would take light for granted and become contempted. Darkness is the absence of light so could it be that Evil is just the same thing and that without a God then evil would reign supreme ?

great post man...Im glad this subforum was created...good to know that the collective conscious of this awareness is growing...
love is the key

applaud, flag, and will certainly be showing others this post. AMAZING...
exactly what i have been thinking in my head,at certain times, but just couldn't put it into words exactly.
GREAT points/outlook!
up: up: up: up: up: up:

In other words, we get nudged in the ass with the trident of the devil so we can move forward?

Free Will and the Problem of Evil

All this talk of angels and devils is beside the point. Philosophically speaking, the crux of the OP is the claim that God 'allows' evil to exist that human beings might have free will.

It is not a new claim. St. Augustine was already familiar with it in the fourth century, and Irenaeus, one of the early Church Fathers, was talking about it, or something similar, a full century before that.

Later, it would supply the philosopher and mathematician Gottfried Liebniz with the foundations of his Essais de Théodicée sur la bonté de Dieu, la liberté de l'homme et l'origine du mal (the link is to an online English translation). It is now a staple of that branch of philosophy known as theodicy, in which it is known as the Free Will Defence.

Not coincidentally, it it also crops up in the pages of the novel I am presently reading, Doctor Faustus (beware of spoilers in the link) by Thomas Mann.

But is it an acceptable defence? Is the goodness of God preserved by distancing Him in this way from the evil he allows into the world? By allowing evil to exist out of His Omnipotence, isn't God in fact creating it, and is He not therefore evil Himself?

Consider all the evil that has happened since Adam. Is free will so great a good that it outweighs all of it? Many of us will reject that argument. And besides, if God is omnipotent, why couldn't He have created freely willing agents who freely choose to do good only? There is no logical inconsistency there.

Imagine you saw someone about to be murdered. Would you refrain from saving them because to do so would be to interfere with the would-be-murderer's free will? That is the absurdity those who use the Free Will Defence ask us to accept in their eagerness to make excuses for God.

And free will is bunkum anyway. As Nietzsche said, the only reason the concept still exists is because philosophers keep reviving it purely in order to disprove it. Debunking free will is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[edit on 27/11/09 by Astyanax]

a reply to: Astyanax

Or to try and study "free will" in the context of thermodynamics and Maxwell's demon.

originally posted by: harvib
reply to post by Mad_Hatter

 

Great post. Very intresting premise. I am anxious to hear more. So are we all aspects of the angels that followed Lucifer? How did we end up in this reality?

This is a really good point. If this is the case then what happened to Lucifer and if we are aspects of the angels who followed him what does that mean for us? Would other entities have followed after and if they did where and what are they? Apologies if this is covered later in the thread.