Pentagon Official Warns of Israeli Attack on Iran

Here is another news report on video, it states Iran says that any attack on its nuclear facility's wouldn't stop them continuing with their nuclear ambitions, if so are air strikes going to be enough, because as they say they could probably get things going again, thus not ending the nuclear threat.

www.liveleak.com...

This all feels like a repeat of the lead up to war with Iraq.

reply to post by Karlhungis


Well, for one, it'd stop Bush and Co from thinking they have any right to stay in office for the duration of the conflict.

I hope.

and remember that Iran have also said they will strike back at dimona
.
.

Has anybody thought that this is a conflict that Bush/Cheney don't really want? I haven't heard the rhetoric flowing out like there was before the Iraq invasion, and no one is giving anything away.

Iran are buying some Russian hardware - I even think the linked report mentions Israel wanting to strike before Iran gets the Russian SA-20s installed (I'm guessing they're anti-aircraft kit).

Also, Russia is building the things that everyone is so upset and in a tiz about. How many hundreds of Russian scientists and personnel would this supposed strike by Israel kill if it hit where they were working? The loss of life would definitely cause a diplomatic rift.

The Strait of Hormuz - US navy commanders have come out and said that they could easily secure it. Hmm... I probably would not have mentioned such a thing in casual conversation, but alright. I wonder if that comes with a guarantee - you know, just like the Iraq war would be over 'in a few weeks'.

Even the psychological affects of an attack in the Mid East would have similar repercussions on the cost of oil that physically closing the strait would have.

I just don't know... This seems like trying to bite off way more than anyone can chew. Israel have said they'll go it alone, but I seriously doubt it.

reply to post by expatwhite


This is the most scary part of the whole "mid eastern problem",

Iran could with 4 or five torpedoes bring the world to its Knees.

Can anyone imagine the price of Oil and the rapidity of a global financial crash unlike any other if the straights were closed.

Truly Iran strategically has the trump Card. They can collapse the world superpowers and the norm with as said, with 4or five torpedoes, or maybe the same number of $10 second world war mines. $50 to bankrupt the entire world.

A little bit extreme, fear mongering?

No just facts, if the straits closes down there is NO OTHER result besides one that is sure a Financial collapse, and probably hyper inflation within a month or two in the USA and China/India.

I laugh and sometimes get worried about the naivety that some show, "we would turn it into glass"

"what would happen in minute 2 of the attack etc etc"

It wouldnt matter if the desert was glass, or if we replied with 50,000 rockets for every one of theirs, once the straights close, the gloabl economies will collapse, it will be the last card from the house, the rest will tumble instantly.

Even if we did turn it too glass how would the oil be brought up in a nuclear desert? and who is going to fill there car with radioactive Petroleum? oreat the McDonalds thats wrapped in Oil Based Plastic that are glowing and will give you cancer? even if you could afford the Burger after the event?Reality guys not words.

Now of course the US is powerfull has a huge military etc, but in all reality as said $50 dollars worth of second hand mines of 4-5 torpedoes will close the starights and send a CAG running, can anyone imagine if the Ronald Reagan carrier was sunk?

well forget imagine, USA instantly looses about a 9th of its worlds projected firepower with that CAG gone.

Surely the iranians couldnt do that? ... well maybe not with mines but they could close the straight and just one tanker going up would start it alll of.

But the real fear is the complacency of the US militray beleif in itself.

Iran has Akula silent subs from russia.

They can sneak or just wait for something like a Aircraft carrier to pass the straights, to protect it and let off four or five torpedoes. The Carrier would sink, the world would be a differant place the next day.

Now many would say this cant happen, we have the technology to stop it etc?

Where how?

Why have the swedes/german navy been in constant war games of the virginia coast for the past year against whole CAG and fleets of warships?

yep the big military nation of sweden!! they have been in war games against the US navy with just ONE submarine. At the USU request, to keep extending the trials, the war games.

On these exercises several times now this one sub has managed to run circles around the aircraft carriers and escorts, sinking it in simulations many times, and escaping with no detection!

Now this is a battery poweredsub using a new technology which means that it does not have to snorkel like the Iranian Akulas, but they are both as quiet as each other when under water and operational on batteries, nearly impossible to detect under 5 knots, much much much quiter than anything the Americans or Britain has.

If this new German sub had been on a war footing the americans would have lost 1/4of their fleet to one sub and it would still be around to take out more.

Whats to stop the Iranians letting of a few torpedoes if they are provoked or attaked?

Nothing they infact will probably do it and be mad not too from a strategic point of veiw. If I was in charge of their forces it would be the first order I made, in any hostilities.

How please tell me how is the straights to be kept open? how are the worlds economies not to crash if this happens?

Exactly, like night after day, if a war breaks out with Iran it will be very very very differant from the one in Iraq.

Wake up guys, leave all alone the computer games and spin, remember the first world war was caused by an anarchist in europe with one hand grenade.

Will the third be started by a disgruntled leadership/captain in Iran with a £10 dollar mine or a old torpedoeor two?

This truly is differant to vietnam, Iraq etc guys, any war with Iran would have to be a global world war, because of the geo political climate and its location, oil at $1000 dolaars a barrel or whatever it would go to if the straights closed would create new wars ever couple of hours.

Its not a game its our lives, and theworlds future.

MischeviouslyWorriedAboutIranianAndAmericanAndzionistHedgemony

Elf

the SA-20 GARGOYLE or S-300PMU2 Favorit is amoungst best the russians have and is comparable to the PAC-2 ; the iranians allready field its older brother the S-300PMU (and upgrades the PMU-1) otherwise known as the SA-10 GRUMBLE;

in fact until recently the west didn`t know very much about the S-300 PMU (let alone the newer models) ; at operation trial hammer in 2005 , slovakia brought along a 15 year old PMU which surprised the heck out of the nato froces flying against it (citation from janes missile and rockets , although subs are needed)

reply to post by MischeviousElf


a submarine is only as good as its crew , you could have the best subs in the world being crewed by morons and it would sink real quick.

iran also has numbers - midget subs with torps strapped to the outside - and all it would take would be to get close to a CBG and put 2 in the side of the carrier

This Friday numerically is 21- Crown of the Magi- to win the long fight.

Independence Day.

We fought and won against long odd's and the British Empire.

I can see BushCo, making an announcement in the afternoon this Friday, first talking about our great nation and brave forefathers etc.

And then talking about our changing times and threats to peace.

The US has entered into a new age but our future remains un-certain.

(the Dow has taken a beating this week below 11,000 as of Thursday's close)
(Oil is at record levels, consumer spending and income off etc)

We still have the threat of global terrorism and state sponsored regimes bent on developing nuclear weapons.

Diplomacy only works with those nations that want to contribute to the greater good.

I am proud of our armed forces and service people that have put themselves in harms way to protect not only our freedoms but to protect those people that have been victims of hostile regimes.

A few hours ago we took those first steps in liberating the Middle East of the threat of nuclear weapons developed in Iran. In co-operations with Israelli forces we took out key operational sites in Iran.

These are uncertain times, but what is certain is that our Armed Forces will do their duty in protecting world peace.

I ask that the American public pray for those in harms way right now as we continue our air operations in reducing and destroying Iran's nuclear capabilities.

And ask that you the American public pray together that we shall overcome, we shall prevail, we shall see a new dawn of peace.

sign-off.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Well done. I think you have gone a long way to explaining why it is foolish to wish these things upon ourselves.

Lots of ATSers (you know who you are) see some sort of glory and excitement in the run up to a potential conflict, some even writing 'Bring it on!' in their naive and inflammatory posts.

Perhaps when you wake up one morning and there's no milk at the local store, there's no fuel at the local garage, your job is in jeopardy and you can't afford food for your kids, perhaps that's when you realise that this is for real.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

 

I don't see much of a difference between an Israeli attack or an American attack. They are pretty much two arms of the same monster at this point. If Israel strikes, I would be willing to bet that the US will have had more than a little influence in the decision. I think that Iran views any attack by either party as no different. They will blame both countries regardless of who drops the first bomb.

I see a BIG difference between an Israeli or American attack. If the Israelis attack via air, their only way to go, without passing through Syria, Turkey, Lebanon...would be passing through Irak and that would make the USA accomplices...Witch is not good...

My 2 cents

It seems as though Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei not share your enthusiasim in sinking battle groups, and winning easily against the US or Isreal.

A top advisor to Iran's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warned on Tuesday against the "provocative" remarks on the nuclear crisis with the West that are associated with President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
"The officials and the political experts need to avoid provocative and illogical declarations and slogans," Ali Akbar Velayati told the hardline Jomhouri Eslami newspaper in an interview.

Who is his advisor you ask? Well he is

The comments by Velayati, who is currently foreign policy advisor to Khamenei and served as foreign minister from 1981 to 1997

What else did he have to say? Well this.

"A certain declaration could cause us problems, we need to be careful not to make these declarations," added Velayati, the longest-serving foreign minister in the history of the Islamic republic.

Velayati did not mention Ahmadinejad by name but the controversial president has caused alarm both inside and outside Iran with his provocative comments on the nuclear drive.

And

Despite Ahmadinejad's rhetoric, Iranian officials including Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki and parliament speaker Ali Larijani have said Tehran is reviewing the package and will give a response soon.

Velayati also spoke out in favour of negotiations with the world powers.

"Those who are agitating against our interests want that we reject the offer. As a consequence, it is in our interests to accept it," he said.

Of course they had to talk a bit tough too, so they said this at the end.

Iran's conservative-controlled parliament warned on Tuesday it would reduce nuclear cooperation if any further sanctions were imposed over the country's atomic drive.

Bottom line, war isn't good for anyone at this point. But you guys thinking A lone submarine will sink an aircraft carrier frankly don't have a clue what you are talking about you are just speculating. You don't know for sure that 4 or 5 torpedos will sink a carrier. After all they shot a whole bunch of missiles at the USS America and still had to forcibly sink it after hitting it with supersonic cruise missiles. I'm not denying that a sub can penetrate a CBG, but I highly doubt a lone Iranian sub will sink a carrier. I will go on to say that it is impossible for a lone mine to sink a carrier unless it was nuclear. Yes they can cause damage but seriously aren't going to sink it.

I understand not wanting America to be to aggressive, because we shouldn't be, but its like some of the people on here believe the foreign propaganda before the us propaganda. It is what it is and its all just propaganda. Unfortunately some of you are so closed minded that you can't see that.
source



[edit on 1-7-2008 by greysave]

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
Iran could with 4 or five torpedoes bring the world to its Knees.
No just facts, if the straits closes down there is NO OTHER result besides one that is sure a Financial collapse, and probably hyper inflation within a month or two in the USA and China/India.

Umm.....Do you even know what the strait of Hormuz is?
Please tell me how Iran with only 4 or 5 torpedoes will close the strait of Hormuz? Do you realize that even at the smallest width, the strait is 22 miles wide?

The latest news coming out today is that the US DOES NOT erxpect an Israeli strike on Iran. This is coming from senior officials.

reply to post by infinite


I don't care. Let Israel attack Iran and let them fight to the death or victory, whatever. I will be on the beach with a beer

Of course this is impossible - even if 95% of the world's population agree with me. Including most of Israelis and Iranians.
"Normal people don't want war" - remember ?
World leaders have other plans. We are no more free than slaves in deciding our fate

[edit on 2-7-2008 by pai mei]

reply to post by WhatTheory & GreySave


Yes I do know where the straights are and how big they are, what countries border them.

If the worlds largest civilian ships , oil tankers, started exploding in the straight, why wouldn't it close?

Who is going to send their shipping, and the worlds fastest rising price product , oil into the straights if their is a chance of not only loosing the produce, but also loosing the multi million pound ships?

How would you get civilian captains to leave port?

How would the straights be kept open if hostilities broke out?

Missiles from land bases, fast attack boats, etc would run circles round the straights, and civilian tankers in the matter of hours.

The submarine threat, is actually that, not just hyperbole or fantasy.

The Akula subs were designed to do what I said they could do, by a world superpower.

As stated earlier, a current ongoing live war game has been played out by one Sub for over a year now of the coast of USA.

This sub has never been sunk by the combined will of the CAG it has been tasked against, and has simultaneously sunk the carrier many times now.

As this is currently source able and in the public domain, is ongoing now, why all of a sudden when you move the USA ships to the straights of Iran, the laws of physics change do they?

Are they like transformers?

Do they change into something different?

No exactly so why couldn't a similair sub (though the akula's arnt as advanced due to having to snorkel) with the same weapon ability not do exactly the same, especially when the crew realises the Shock & Awe being visited on their homes and families, I feel they would be highly motivted to succeed?

Just another thing, they unlike the exercise of the USA coast have more than one sub, do any of you believe that a fleet of these wouldn't have the ability to sink a Carrier and close the straights?
Waiting for the transformers to save the day?

Like I said this is real life guys, what ive said is factual and happening now (re the sub exercises).

Yeah I don't know what im talking about people rant, it couldn't happen, ok then lets look back a bit.

Well the US cole was taken out by speedboat, a little non sea going boat with no real military capability holed a multi million pound massively advanced modern American warship.

12 nutters on planes, not military ones, civilian one, killed 3000 in NY and broke the worlds most defended airspace.
(leaving aside the known and obvious holes in the official story of that day)

These things have happened, and yet you think a Superpower designed Submarine, actually designed to do exactly what I fear, sink carriers would be less successful than a little dingy and a jumbo jet?

A poster mentions propaganda and maybe I am guided by that, afraid not my freind, the only propaganda is the current myth of the invulnerability of the Military Might of the USA in this regard.

In a all out war with Iran and the ensuing sympathies of its regional Arab neighbors, to state and believe that the straights would remain open if the Iranians made it a priority to close them, is IMO close minded as stated about me.

Besides total invasion, and occupation of the coastal regions of Iran, closing of all its naval capabilities and pacifying the fire of anti western feeling and action after such an attack, how just how could the straights be kept open, or at least safe passage of the worlds most important commodity Oil be assured?

Exactly and as that happens the Financial crash happens.

Now what I never mentioned in my first post was that in fact if you look at history, it is at such times as these Financially, that world wars have been engineered/started to stop the total dissolution of world power from the mega rich industrial and banking cartels, and political families and structures.

In a global economic crash they realize that when the bottom is hit, and people start to wake up the old order would never be built again.

The way to stop this happening is distraction and the classic Delphi principle of coercion by the worlds leaders. Create/engineer the world war, and start again, they always have and will again, its just the Status Quo.

My question then to some an ATS is why would history this time all off a sudden be different to the past, why now of all times would these behaviors not happen?

I haven't really noticed a great change in the world controllers/powers have you?

Have I missed the epiphany moments with the Rothschild and Neocons etc?

Have they with all their Nazi hidden as Far Right Christian views had a road to Damascus experiences?

I see no world leaders saying lets start making a fairer world etc, they are carrying on as always so why wouldn't this happen now?

The transformers again?

Why also in all that is sane as stated above if a speedboat with like less than a 12 men crew hole a US warship with normal explosives, why in gods name could a Superpower designed attack submarine, being sold on the worlds open markets not sink a Carrier?

Just going outside to look for the transformers, maybe they will save the day.

It certainly isn't me living in Hollywood or propaganda, but I smell the BS in LA from here with many peoples views, it isn't a game.

Your dad is not bigger than his dad.
The Iranians have the ability to crash the worlds economy , well at least topple the cards period.

However what some in the US might want to consider is that maybe and for me its a cert not a maybe, your leaders want this world war, as always in the past?

This whole nuclear Iran is interesting as before the invasion of Iraq the Iranians approached the UN and the USA and allowed full access and negotiations with the west on this issue.
They wanted transparency, and an end to the Crisis.

The USA refused the offer, in fact they did not respond even diplomatically with the proposal if you want the source read and grow IAEA and UN ( on record in public domain the entire wording of the negotiation offer) why is that? well maybe as said this war is wanted and planned, and just like in history guys, watch the stocks, watch the huge amounts being made by Oil now and just as its all going to go totally hostilities will start, or another "terrible attack" on the homeland.

All I am thinking is if they have done this with speedboats and jumbo jets imagine what could be done with military designed equipment like a attack submarine?

Hollywood me,? never no I am affronted by that remark.... mm... however I suppose I am a part of it as, unfortunately the way the world is run, and the reality of all this is in fact like the worst nightmare story that Hitchcock or James Herbert could ever come up with.

We all bumble along as parts in the story and never question who is really directing it, or even ask maybe I could learn new lines, who gave me this script anyhow who wrote it? maybe I can even get of the stage and take part in a different story?

Break a leg Guys, as they say in the industry, make sure when slipping though you don't knock anyone else over!

Kind Regards,

MischeviouslySinkingYellowDucksWithaToyBicarbobateSubmarine.

Elf.

SmokersScreen Thank you, and hope I am putting this in context for people, I really worry like you on some of the rhetoric vis a vis America and war. Anyone who has been to War usually don't share these views and its the Armchair Generals (not cnn style just civilians at home) who worry me most, as they have the same views as the Civilian political leaders, and believe in the game like quality to it, and not personally having picked up a friends or child's limbs from the street one day don't know the reality of what it is. They also like to keep this myth going... Vietnam, Iraq Afghanistan has not been a "proper" World War. People forget that.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by MischeviousElf]

i will post this again:

www.lib.utexas.edu...

there is a specific reason i chose that picture over the others - it shows the water depth in various parts of the straits of hormuz - and yo tell me what submarine or aircraft carrier can actually operate in 75 meters of water?

the deep sea lane (s) is right in the middle with some very very shalow water either side - a CBG has to transit right in the middle and nuke boats , well any aircfta or even a dinghy could look down into the water and see them - the water is that shallow.


edit:

elf - akula`s are nuke boats so don`t need to snorkel

www.naval-technology.com...

they do have kilo`s (3 of)

www.naval-technology.com...

which is a diesel boat , and its those which the USN would be concerned about - especially with a well trained crew.


thus a CBG wouldn`t actually come close to the strait`s and attempt to power project over them

edit:

hmmmm as far as i know Iran don`t actually have an akula`s - or even any nuke boats , only kilo`s , and the home built Ghadir class mini sub

although i have heard that they are looking to buy the improved kilo type and modernize there 3 kilo class

[edit on 2/7/08 by Harlequin]

Latest as mentioned above me, this can be found elsewhere than on the site I'm linking:

USA does NOT expect Israel to do anything

Quote from text:

"I think it's rather foolish of people who often have no clue what they're talking about to assert things and not even have the courtesy to do so on the basis of their name," he told reporters in Washington.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


What are you babbling about? My point wasn't if a submarine could make a hit on a carrier, it was how many hits would it take to sink a carrier. With an entire battle group, I doubt they would get many shots. Also as someone else stated, the carrier doesn't need to steam through the straight to project power, that is why it has planes and helicopters. Furthermore, you do realize the navy just activated a new asw helicopter the mh-60r already in service designed for costal regions. It would be more like destroyers and frigates escorting tankers. Also you are comparing an advanced German design sub to older kilo class subs. My point isn't the fact that Iran can't bite back, but you are way overestimating there power IMO. We all don't want war, fine. You are just making a bunch of speculations with no facts to back anything up over exaggerating the whole situation.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by greysave]

reply to post by greysave


actually , depends on the type of torpedo used , it could just take 1 , since some US and Russian types don`t actually hit the ship , but detonate under , creating a hole in the water ; and given that ships arn`t designed to have nothing under them , the back will break.

edit:

we can be arm chair generals all day and night and quote stat books - but unless there is actually a shooting war no one will know.

[edit on 2/7/08 by Harlequin]

And so would start the war of contracts that would involve all the world and depopulate it enormously. I believe its all agreed on ahead of time by most of its leaders and thats why they have built their underground facilities for the elite and some scientist/doctors. David Rockefeller should be happy. He is 92 or 93, and probably wants us all to die with him, so great is his ego.