A Time for Choosing

When I think of America, this is what comes to mind.


Unfortunately these days the media chooses to call America war mongers, and making America feel guilty about spreading goodness throughout the world just like they always tried to do in the past.

Fact: every country that America participated in the past is now better off than before America sat back.

I felt compelled to post this video to show what America stands for as I always understood it (I am a canadian actually) because these days it seems that many Americans would rather live on their knees, than die on their feet.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


Sorry Like, but Britain holds the record for being the most beneficial country to the world.

We helped shape the democratic world, didn't you know?

Anglo-saxons culture is not spreading goodness around the world, it's just one of several human cultures out there, all with good and bad points.

And democracy is a greek construct as to the philosophy and a french creation at the national level, since the greeks didnt really get it past the city state levels. So it's hardly like democracy speaks english.

Get over yourselves and help the world, plural as it is, live in peace.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


Surely I am aware of Britains role in the past. After all Churchill stepped into WW2 long before the passivist americans of that time. And surely Thatcher was a great ally to Reagan to win the cold war.

What my OP was about the growing attitude that America should stop standing up and appease every leader that says America is a bully.

Anti-tyrant what would Britain look like if Churchill had not stood up?

reply to post by Zepherian


Perhaps if we had your attitude in the 1940's, the whole world would be speaking german.

I know this sounds idealistic and cheesy but it is true, all evil needs to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

reply to post by Cool Hand Luke


If churchill had not stepped up, Britain would undoubtedly be a different place from what it is today.

That's not to say we would have lost, however, but i am certain that had churchill not been in that position of power at that time, wartime casualties would have doubled, perhaps even quadrupeled.

I was actually referring to a time of earlier sorts, when the British Empire was going through the motions of giving the world back it's independance, forging an 'unseen alliance' between the nations it had conquered.

We did the world Good through bloody deeds, i'll admit that, but compared to what America has done for the world, we're an island of saints.

Originally posted by Zepherian

And democracy is a greek construct as to the philosophy and a french creation at the national level, since the greeks didnt really get it past the city state levels. So it's hardly like democracy speaks english.

Wowee, you managed to churn out quite a few technicalities there!

It's a shame none of them are even remotely close to this time period.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

I was actually referring to a time of earlier sorts, when the British Empire was going through the motions of giving the world back it's independance, forging an 'unseen alliance' between the nations it had conquered.

My apologies, I was not sure which time period you were referring to. Thank you for clarifying that and I do agree with you to an extent.
Surely when America declared its independence, a new kind of democracy emerged that was unique to the world at that time.

We did the world Good through bloody deeds, i'll admit that, but compared to what America has done for the world, we're an island of saints.

I'm glad to hear that you are not of the mind that war has not done anything good in this world. But I must ask for some examples of what America has done to the world that makes you see its influence in such a negative light.



[edit on 30-6-2008 by Cool Hand Luke] spelling

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke

Surely when America declared its independence, a new kind of democracy emerged that was unique to the world at that time.

Yep, you guys sure like being defiant, i'll give you that.

If any country in this world is going to go out kicking and screaming, it's you guys.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
I glad to hear that you are not of the mind that war has not done anything good in this world. But I must ask for some examples of what America has done to the world that makes you see its influence in such a negative light.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

I could pick out many, in all spectrums of this 'reality' we exist in, although undoubtedly Britain will have helped you do a few of them.

Remember, however, that American Politics and Law helped shape the world just like we did when we gave the world it's independance, It may have been Britain who helped shape modern Democracy, but it's America that helped shape modern culture.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant

Yep, you guys sure like being defiant, i'll give you that.

If any country in this world is going to go out kicking and screaming, it's you guys.

First of all, forgive me, I should've made myself clear. I am Canadian, born in Canada never have lived in America, been there many times, have lots of family down there though. My Bad

But you are absolutely correct, they will not go down without a fight. The only way they will go down is from within. And thats kinda what this thread about.

I could pick out many, in all spectrums of this 'reality' we exist in,/

All I'm asking is just one example thats all I ask

Remember, however, that American Politics and Law helped shape the world just like we did when we gave the world it's independance, It may have been Britain who helped shape modern Democracy, but it's America that helped shape modern culture.

Could not agree with you more.

But one question, shouldn't the 1st world nations allow the people of third world nations to have a choice in whether they live like humans(1st world nations) or live like animals (3rd world nations)?

How do we allow them to even have options when they have dictators like kim jong il and the like that don't even give them the option?



[edit on 30-6-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

Firstly, i'll say sorry for forgetting your nationality, that kind of thing doesn't sit too well.

Secondly, Americans - i harbour no ill towards anyone, other than those who would seek to profit from other's misfortune.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
All I'm asking is just one example thats all I ask

Well, i could point out the fact that the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden, for one.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
How do we allow them to even have options when they have dictators like kim jong il and the like that don't even give them the option?
[edit on 30-6-2008 by Cool Hand Luke]

So then, is this what it's all about?

I'll give it a shot, but i'm not at my prime here so don't expect much.

How did the Americans attain their independance?

They overthrew their 'oppressors' thanks to the fact that we gave them a whole load of guns.

The problem, however, is that in the third world the tyrants and oppressors have more than just guns - they have tanks and helicopters, one or two even have a pet navy.

One would think, that the only way to liberate those people, would be to seize the assets of the Dictators and Tyrants and put them in jail.

From there, it's all about them, and whether they want peace or prosperity.

Yup. White phosphorus indiscriminate bombing always makes me feel proud and put one the those big yellow 'made in china' ribbons on my vehicle.
hooya

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Firstly, i'll say sorry for forgetting your nationality, that kind of thing doesn't sit too well.

Don't worry about it

Secondly, Americans - i harbour no ill towards anyone, other than those who would seek to profit from other's misfortune.

I think we can all agree on that

Well, i could point out the fact that the CIA trained Osama Bin Laden, for one.

I think the question for you would be did the ends justify the means at that time? I mean the reason that the CIA used Osama was because of his financial resources and he influence to fight back the rooskies that were invading that territory. In theory it all looked good on paper because the russians were defeated, and embarrassed and gave a positive picture of america at that time to the fighters who got their weapons from america. The only problem was was that over time Osama did not like the fact that US decided to stay in that area. But US thought nothing of it since that is what they had always done in the past, defeat the enemy and set up a base so that the enemy would not advance again. Apparently Osama did not like this "standard procedure" and was booted out of his homeland and here we are today.

How did the Americans attain their independance?

They overthrew their 'oppressors' thanks to the fact that we gave them a whole load of guns.

The problem, however, is that in the third world the tyrants and oppressors have more than just guns - they have tanks and helicopters, one or two even have a pet navy.

One would think, that the only way to liberate those people, would be to seize the assets of the Dictators and Tyrants and put them in jail.

From there, it's all about them, and whether they want peace or prosperity.

Im really liking you're line of thinking, and as a matter of fact isn't this exactly what America is doing right now in Iraq?

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke


But one question, shouldn't the 1st world nations allow the people of third world nations to have a choice in whether they live like humans(1st world nations) or live like animals (3rd world nations)?

How do we allow them to even have options when they have dictators like kim jong il and the like that don't even give them the option?

Well perhaps you and your Canadian brethren should help shoulder some of the load, eh.

I for one am damn sick and tired of American youth being killed, my taxdollars being spent so America can play global policeman. To hell with
the rest of the world. No more foreign aid until our roads are fixed.

reply to post by jpm1602


I'm sorry, forgive me but could you please clarify what your referring to?

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke

Im really liking you're line of thinking, and as a matter of fact isn't this exactly what America is doing right now in Iraq?

No, because no one gave the Iraqis a choice of whether they wanted peace or prosperity.

Granted, America did do some of the work of dealing with Saddam, and did a good job of removing all those nasty articles of armour and suchlike, but the populace was still at discontent.

You want to know why?

It's because no one got up on a damn stage and said "Iraq! You are Free!" and started handing out guns.

We just sat there, twiddling our thumbs, while the Iraqis got paranoid about the puppet government we installed.

reply to post by whaaa


My country can barely spend a dime on the military before you have the opposition leaders crying "warmonger, hate-filled bigot, etc etc"

Lately though with the election of our lastest prime minister he has decided finally that we should take on some the burden and slowly but surely our military is getting some much needed funding.

BTW Canada is in afghanistan.

Originally posted by Cool Hand Luke
reply to post by whaaa

 

My country can barely spend a dime on the military before you have the opposition leaders crying "warmonger, hate-filled bigot, etc etc"
BTW Canada is in Afghanistan.

Why aren't you in Afghanistan? You seem more than willing for American boys and girls to fight and die there. And In other parts of the world.

You also seem to think that Americans should be willing to spend their hard earned taxdollars on foreign intervention.

I think that you are ideologically challenged and need to put in your military time as I did, and perhaps get a little real life experience. Instead of this academic BS you profess.

Comfy keyboard warriors....

Perhaps "A time for YOUR choosing" eh.




[edit on 30-6-2008 by whaaa]

"Comfy Keyboard Warriors".

I like that.

Still, you have to admit, the theatre of war has changed dramatically since we entered the 21st century.

We have need for those "Keyboard Warriors" You mentioned.

If only to cut the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

I'm sorry, but I find your pov slightly simplistic. WW2 was far more complex than just simple good and evil, despite what the history books say, and if everyone had my atitude Hitler would never have got up an army.