Will free energy save our collective bums ?

I bet mine that it will, because everything ties into energy dependence.
What do you need for survival ? Food, shelter and dependending where you live some clothing as well. If you do not wish to buy processed food through your local market, food can be grown in greenhouses, the most expensive thing about greenhouses is the energy for making the glass and metal structures and when you have set it up the light and heat needed to make things grow. Shelter can be anything from a shack to a mansion, you need trees, limestone and clay, you need energy to cut the wood and energy to turn limestone into cement and clay into bricks, you need energy to supply your house with water heat and light, you need energy to build a vehicle and energy to run it.
In short everything we do is based on energy so what happens when we no longer have to pay for it ??
Our living expenses will drop by about 2/3 as a rough estimate, that means you could get by on working a lot less hours if you are not the greedy type. Considering that automation has made many jobs redundant and the tendency of folks in the western world of having less children,
we really would just be going with the flow as it were. Pollution will no longer be much of an issue, the oil and utility companies will have a fit and then look for something else that they can make us dependent on.

P.S. Please feel free not only to discuss the implications of such a possibility but
post any links and information that will contribute to making it reality.
There is safety in numbers !

P.P.S. Another thought that keeps knocking on the door is this ; why don't we
set up a trust fund that will be used to set up an R & D lab, as well as the production of technologies that will contribute to this common goal of free
energy and better resource management.

Is there anyone out there ??

The first and most obvious flaw is the overlap of a monetary system with an energy infrastructure based on nonrenewable resources. Fossil Fuels are a "sunset" industry, owned and marketed by a cartel with no apparent exit strategy. An orchestrated energy crisis provides the cartel with valuable data that will dictate future actions towards extending the day. An energy crisis is one of many "shock tests," such as blackouts and NYC transportation strikes…all used to assess and predict social engineering strategies. As these two systems become more disparate in their functioning, the wealth too is being continually divided into the poor have-nots and the rich elitists. Compound interest, Lobbyists, War-Market Based Solutions, Tax Havens, Global deregulation, Anti-Trust Regulations, and No Trickling Down…are compounding the division and impending collapse, never mind the biosphere.

blog.myspace.com...

yeah, check out my thread, this blog of mine (See Mods I'm following rules!)
Goes into detail about how FE will ruin an economy destined to die anyway, and how that's a good thing...

Maybe now people will understand the term Free Energy Messiah isn't just a joke.

I have a story that suggests it would... You can find it at:

www.frontsoft.com...

I really wish we had available free energy devices. I wish I was smart enough to build one.

I'm tired of paying huge bills for electricity and heating oil.

Even the windmills are too expensive. And then you have to find a place to put all the batteries.

Valid points here about 'free energy', except for one thing: it can never be 'free'!

In the first place, nothing is truly free. Someone has to build the thing that produces energy, someone has to make the materials used to in the building, someone has to develop it... and all these people are not going to work for free. Sorry, but that's not the world you are living in. Even if someone else (like the government) paid your way for the free energy machine, you would still pay for it through higher taxes, weaker money, or denial of liberties.

Besides that, even if we forgo the actual meaning of free and assume we mean renewable, low-cost energy production, here's why free energy can never exist in this social climate: those who are charging that huge power bill will not allow it. It threatens their cash flow and they will do everything in their power to stop it. Even violence and theft and persecution, if that is necessary. It usually isn't.

Let's assume for a moment that you somehow stumbled onto a way to produce power from, oh, let's say air. Now you could probably build one of these thingys and use it. But could you afford to build 20? 200? 20,000? I know I couldn't. The way businesses get started doing this is to borrow money to build the first batch and then repay it by selling that batch. Now, knowing how heavily the banking system is tied to the energy producers, do you really think they would allow you to borrow a few hundred grand to put their stock through the floor?

The only way free energy (which is possible, btw, as long as you realize that 'free' is a very loose usage of the word) will be available outside of single-unit construction by those who know how to build it, is for the coming economic collapse to weaken the financial strings on the people. That's possible, but not guaranteed as an outcome. I wouldn't even say probable, because for those strings to be cut, people would have to collectively start living differently, and humanity does not like change. Especially when that change requires them to actually do something.

Sad, I know. This world would be so much more awesome if we could power it easier...

TheRedneck

Reading you Redneck could really put a damper on this lovely day if it weren't
so obvious where you are coming from. Off course someone has to develope
and produce these free energy devices
and you will also have to pay the poeple that do, what's wrong with that ?
Are you possibly equating free energy with socialism ?
My point really is it's up to us, we can pretend that the oil boys
have complete control over our universe or we can pretend that they don't,
which do you prefer ? I do not want to overthrow any systems, that would
take way too much energy, but I do want to focus on another path and I
believe the time is ripe !

Originally posted by TheRedneck
Valid points here about 'free energy', except for one thing: it can never be 'free'!

I say you are wrong here. "Never?" Ha. Sure there will be a transition period when we are paying for the materials, construction, transport, shelf space at the store, and any miscellaneous costs...

But if you combine a source of energy which itself is unowned and free for the taking with advanced robotics tech (which will remove the need to pay workers in all phases of delivery), eventually the costs of everything will be removed.

And not only the energy itself will be free, but everything will be.

The reason for this is because money is a representation of energy. It represents an exchange of human effort (energy). It is because energy in our society is effectively finite - extracting more of conventional "free" energy (solar, wind, geothermal, etc.) is not initially cost-effective - very large amounts of material are required to produce a small quantity into our already over-strained pool.

But if Dark Energy is harnessed, since extraction methods are scale invariant and the supply infinite, we can run anything and everything on it.

Again... Read my story: www.frontsoft.com...

Besides that, even if we forgo the actual meaning of free and assume we mean renewable, low-cost energy production, here's why free energy can never exist in this social climate: those who are charging that huge power bill will not allow it. It threatens their cash flow and they will do everything in their power to stop it. Even violence and theft and persecution, if that is necessary. It usually isn't.

Then it's up to us to experiment, pass successes along to others, fight for our heaven on Earth! We must be our own Prometheus. If enough of us work on it, they cannot silence us all.

Let's assume for a moment that you somehow stumbled onto a way to produce power from, oh, let's say air. Now you could probably build one of these thingys and use it. But could you afford to build 20? 200? 20,000?

You are still in the paradigm of money here. If I built it (and sadly I have no money for even experimentation) I would put the plans out on the web. I would give them away. Because I know that it's NOT about money. Money would be meaningless with the advent of the ability of the individual to extract energy from an infinite source.

The only way free energy (which is possible, btw, as long as you realize that 'free' is a very loose usage of the word) will be available outside of single-unit construction by those who know how to build it, ...

Wow. You are assuming a lot here. Just because you could not build 20 or 200 or (whatever) does not mean there will not be enterprising souls initially who CAN build a few hundred or thousand and sell them. Though money will become moot, initially there will be many motivated to sell the units and get a jump start on the comforts of heaven.

Sad, I know. This world would be so much more awesome if we could power it easier...

What is sad, in my opinion of course, is your defeatist attitude. You are so ready to give up and presume we are trapped. Well many of us are not so willing. We are the "warriors," fighting for a heaven for all.

Only the Elite do not want free energy because it will level the human playing field. They will no longer be "above" the rest of us. But if we all fight, there are far more of US than THEM, and we are most likely to win.

reply to post by survivalsurfer

Sorry, didn't really mean to put a damper on anyone's day.

I am not equating free energy with socialism; just the opposite. I'm pointing out that the term is a misnomer. No energy source could ever be free, but it could be renewable and very low-cost, as well as decentralized. This really is possible, as well as practical, but there will be huge attacks on any such process.

Have no fear; all is not lost. This coming depression may well have the end result of leaving those of us who survive it with a plethora of energy alternatives. I am alread seeing some promising work coming out of individual inventors' garages, it's just that no one can produce it for the masses... yet. (And yes, one of those garages is mine )

TheRedneck

So seeing its sunday, what do you say we pass the hat around, seems to me
that there are quite a few mad scientist out there and if we can organize a larger chunk of cash we should be able to get the ball moving. It has to be something quite simple, which can easily be replicated.
Have you heard about these guys in Japan ? www.genepax.co.jp
Seems they have something working using water as fuel which is producing enough electricity to run a small electric car.

It's simply a matter of some wealthy folks deciding to invest the money.

The recent history of the electric car is an example.

The EV1 was originally brought about by legislation and literally scrapped for various reasons, was that the end of it? NO.

Some wealthy people decided they wanted an awesome, practical electric sports car, now the Tesla Roadster is available. Like all new technology it starts expensive but then comes down in price, becomes more mass marketable and the inferior technology just goes away.

The fossil fuel industry is doomed and everyone knows it - do you have any idea how much innovation is going on in alt. energy? Gas prices alone are FORCING people to find better ways.

Get in on the Peswiki email updates.

My Auto-Inductive Rectenna is made from common materials, it doesn't require more than a few thousand dollars to prototype and a few hundred to purchase once manufactured. It could power your home and vehicles.

Find me an electrical engineer and a few K and I'm willing, you can trust that I won't sell out or even protect my IP because I've already divulged it here and three other websites.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by survivalsurfer
No energy source could ever be free, ...

Dark Energy...? Once you pay for the unit to extract it, it's free, baby. [smile]

Originally posted by Akkaeneset
My Auto-Inductive Rectenna is made from common materials, it doesn't require more than a few thousand dollars to prototype and a few hundred to purchase once manufactured. It could power your home and vehicles.

Find me an electrical engineer and a few K and I'm willing, you can trust that I won't sell out or even protect my IP because I've already divulged it here and three other websites.

Sounds a little to good to be true, but I do have an electronics engineer in peto,
I will ask him to review your rectenna ( sounds a little perverted ) What link shall I send him to ?

reply to post by Amaterasu

I say you are wrong here. "Never?" Ha. Sure there will be a transition period when we are paying for the materials, construction, transport, shelf space at the store, and any miscellaneous costs...

But if you combine a source of energy which itself is unowned and free for the taking with advanced robotics tech (which will remove the need to pay workers in all phases of delivery), eventually the costs of everything will be removed.

Ah, so you have a material which never breaks? Never wears out? Never fails to perform it's function?

You're living in a dream world, friend. We have a capitalist economy because if we did not, no one could survive. I'll admit it's a nice dream, but it is one that has been tried many times in human history and the result was always the same: totalitarian tyranny.

But if Dark Energy is harnessed, since extraction methods are scale invariant and the supply infinite, we can run anything and everything on it.

OK, I've heard a little about this 'dark energy', but I am not sure exactly what it is or how to use it. I'll read your link (when I get back, have to leave for work now) with an open mind.

Then it's up to us to experiment, pass successes along to others, fight for our heaven on Earth! We must be our own Prometheus. If enough of us work on it, they cannot silence us all.

Er, I would like to eat while I build that utopian energy production. I don't have parents or a government program feeding me. Sorry.

You are still in the paradigm of money here. If I built it (and sadly I have no money for even experimentation) I would put the plans out on the web. I would give them away. Because I know that it's NOT about money. Money would be meaningless with the advent of the ability of the individual to extract energy from an infinite source.

I would hazard to guess the reason you do not have enough money for experimentation is precisely because you would give away any source of money that came your way. See how that works?

If I were to develop such a marketable system, I would sell it, but for as little s I could to pay for my living and future experimentation. Your statement simply proves my point, and explains why so many inventors fail.

Wow. You are assuming a lot here. Just because you could not build 20 or 200 or (whatever) does not mean there will not be enterprising souls initially who CAN build a few hundred or thousand and sell them. Though money will become moot, initially there will be many motivated to sell the units and get a jump start on the comforts of heaven.

Apparently you do not have the means either. Apparently no one with the ideas has had the means.

What is sad, in my opinion of course, is your defeatist attitude. You are so ready to give up and presume we are trapped. Well many of us are not so willing. We are the "warriors," fighting for a heaven for all.

One man fighting an army is not a battle; it is a suicide. One man practicing guerrilla warfare and taking out 10,000 soldiers by stealth is not defeatist; it is victory.

At the risk of offending you, which is not my purpose, I would suggest a couple of classes in economics and strategy. Then we can get into the physics fields.

TheRedneck

Free energy won't save our collective bums. Cooperation and mutual respect for others will. The worlds energy crises are being driven by people who care not one bit for those two things.

Free energy won't make people stop fighting long enough to use it to it's potential.

Originally posted by Akkaeneset

The first and most obvious flaw is the overlap of a monetary system with an energy infrastructure based on nonrenewable resources. Fossil Fuels are a "sunset" industry, owned and marketed by a cartel with no apparent exit strategy. An orchestrated energy crisis provides the cartel with valuable data that will dictate future actions towards extending the day. An energy crisis is one of many "shock tests," such as blackouts and NYC transportation strikes…all used to assess and predict social engineering strategies. As these two systems become more disparate in their functioning, the wealth too is being continually divided into the poor have-nots and the rich elitists. Compound interest, Lobbyists, War-Market Based Solutions, Tax Havens, Global deregulation, Anti-Trust Regulations, and No Trickling Down…are compounding the division and impending collapse, never mind the biosphere.

blog.myspace.com...

yeah, check out my thread, this blog of mine (See Mods I'm following rules!)
Goes into detail about how FE will ruin an economy destined to die anyway, and how that's a good thing...

Maybe now people will understand the term Free Energy Messiah isn't just a joke.

Hello Akkaeneset please state a link where my friend can look into the
rectenna,thanks.

reply to post by survivalsurfer


Cool! peer review!

There's another thread here I started regarding the AIR called, Back-Engineering the Tesla Crop Circle, send him there.