Proposal: Render air passengers un-concious

Please allow me to share some thoughts I had, regarding security and safety, during my first trip across the country by airline.

The first thing that struck me was how ridiculous and somewhat demeaning it is to have to take off your shoes. It is quite obvious that this measure is meant to make people uncomfortable, nothing more. It is psychological warfare being perpetrated against the people. The woman in front of me kicked off her shoes and a stench like cheezy vomit filled the air. I'm not that afraid of terrorists to put up with that.

Making people take off their shoes at the airport doesn't make anyone safer. And neither does restricting your liquids to little three-ounce bottles. That measure is probably in place just to add another hidden cost to flying.

Aside from that though, let's cut to the meat of what I came up with, while streaking across the big blue American sky...

Having already figured several ways of getting weapons and explosives on board myself, a first-time flier, I accepted the possibility that a highly trained and skilled terrorist could have done the same. So, what could be done about that?

I looked around the packed plane, and wondered who, if anyone, was the secret air-marshal. Even if there was one on board, what could they actually do if a terrorist jumped up and tried to do whatever they had planned? Shoot the suspect? Not likely. The risk of hitting another passenger or putting a hole in the pressurized plane is extremely high in that confined space.

So then I thought about non-lethal weapons, like a taser. That could work I suppose. Still a chance of a civilian getting caught up in the confrontation, but at least they probably wouldn't get shot, even if they accidentally got zapped. Still not very effective overall though. You pretty much have one shot with a taser, unless you're in real close with a stun-gun instead of harpooning the terrorist. A turbulence bump could throw the whole situtation out of control still.

And of course, there still remains the distinct possibility that there would be more than one terrorist on board.

So, as I am thinking on this, I think about the fact that the cockpit doors stay closed now these days. (That really didn't help my own personal fears of flying at all by the way. I would have felt much better being able to see into the cockpit and out the front window.) So then I thought, well, it probably wouldn't take too much to pressurize the cockpit seperately, with an airtight seal around their door.

Why not have a "panic" button that could release a chemical-gas into the passenger area in case of trouble? Just knock-out everyone, including the terrorists!

But almost as soon as I thought of that, I figured, heck, why not just knock everyone out as soon as they get on the plane? Just to be on the safe side?

After all, a lot of people don't like to fly anyway, and most people wouldn't mind some extra snooze time anyway. For those who don't like it, too bad. We have to prevent another 9/11 right?

My feeling is that eventually when you fly, you will be naked and sedated, packed and stacked into steralized, ventilated little crash cocoons. You won't need to be entertained, made comfortable, or catered to. You won't need to be fed, and you won't be a threat. The airline can pack so many more of you in a plane, but you won't have to be exposed to all the various unpleasantries that occur when humans are crowded together under stress in a small space. Your flight wont seem long at all since you will be asleep. If there is a crash, you won't know it and your body parts will already be in a perfect container for identification, sorting, and disposal.

There really is no downside is there?

Heh. I say "you" because I do not fly if I can at all help it, and I usually can, but you folks enjoy yourselves in the don't-need-to-be-friendly-anymore skys...

hmmm impractical ... the gas would not have the same effect equally (people have different tolerances), also it sould probably kill a few people who may have medical conditions.

It's not instantaneous so the would-be hijacker would in all probability panic, and press the button or pull the trigger anyway.

My "out-there" Alternative (just for the heck of it):
Depressurise the plane, the oxygen masks fall out ... then have manual control over which masks get oxygen, and deprive the ones that the hijackers are wearing, or replace their oxygen with a custom cocktail

reply to post by deltaalphanovember

the gas would not have the same effect equally (people have different tolerances), also it sould probably kill a few people who may have medical conditions.

Well, better to kill a few people than let the plane crash into a building. People with medical conditions are probably just gonna die soon anyway.

It's not instantaneous so the would-be hijacker would in all probability panic, and press the button or pull the trigger anyway.

They would probably panic more if an air-marshal pulled a gun. Besides, maybe the gas would disorient them enough before they actually went lights-out.

EDIT to add: Wouldn't have to worry if everyone was knocked out before they went on the plane anyway.




[edit on 6/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

Yeah, that's not going to happen, as one person said, gassing people is a medical procedure and anesthesia is one of the largest contributor to the morality rate of surgical procedures.

For every measure and countermeasure there's a way to get around it.

I agree most of these measures are ineffective and it would be easy to get around them by studying them and studying times and degree of vigilance and maybe even by getting a confederate placed among the inspectors.

There's still the problem of baggage, which can contain hazardous items.

AFAIK, Israeli air flights are the only ones that have pretty good screening and safety measures. The ones we're subjected to are largely for show, imo.

I think you just need to re-design the seatbelt system, to have an active latching and tension system, that has a conductive core in the belt to detect cutting and be made out of kevlar CF Nylon Cordra composite weave of some type.

So replacing the manual standard aircraft seat buckle instead the latch end plugs into a fixture at the seat side much like an automotive belt system, except no release button, its electronically activated. The other end goes to a motorized belt tensioner that locks the belt down with just enough force to keep a person restrained in their seat. Like riding a roller coaster.

If you need to get out of your seat an attendant comes over and hits a seat specific unlocking button on the overhead, any carry-on bags are now limited to what will fit under the seat in front of you. Small overnight or larger carry on bags get ramp checked and tagged and are placed in a special forward storage bay, just behind the cockpit and where typically first class would have normally been, the extra bulkhead here also provide an extra barrier to the flight deck along with the aircrews lavatory and galley.

A handheld device used by the main cabin steward shows the seat unlocks and is also mirrored on a displays accessed by the second flight deck officer.

The only reason to be out of your seat is to use the lavatory, also which is displayed on the handheld once another user has returned to their seat then your seat is unlocked and you are allowed to use the lavatory, when you return you are locked back into your seat for the duration of the flight or until you ask to use the lavatory again.

In the event of a crash or emergency the belt system automatically unlocks the belts when the G sensor detects no forward motion and no vertical motion. The passenger control sensors and black box etc are in a hardened portion of the airframe, insulated from fire and severe shock. Alternatively a micro device measuring G's could be independently installed at each row on the aircraft.

You cant get up you cant really take over the plane, you cant get to the flight deck you cant get control over the plane. You could kill the passenger next to you and maybe the attendant or stab a few people on your way to the lav or back but you would be on your own. The trained flight crew should have some type of less lethal devices to put down threats.

Great idea! Lets let them take away more freedoms so we can have a false sense of security! BRILLIANT!

reply to post by robertfenix


Too much retro-fitting, too much cost, too much work for the flight attendants.

Just knock everyone out, and the airlines could even cut costs by getting rid of flight attendants altogether.

EDIT to add: Although keeping people awake and locked in their seats for eight maybe even sixteen hours would probably really get the point across that they're a lot safer than they ever were before, and they would still be able to enjoy the flight.



[edit on 6/27/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by jackinthebox

But almost as soon as I thought of that, I figured, heck, why not just knock everyone out as soon as they get on the plane? Just to be on the safe side?

Why stop with the plane?
Take this principle and apply it to everyone everywhere.
That'll solve many many problems.
As far as just doing it in flight, you haven't factored the poop and pee logistics into the equation.
Best strategy, take a couple of sleeping pills and whatever happens happens.

reply to post by jackinthebox


Not sure if youre kidding or not but this has been done before, with consequences that were deadly to the terrorists AND the hostages, killing 117 of them.

Link

American officials said yesterday that they suspected the Russian security police who raided a Moscow theater early Saturday might have used an aerosol version of a powerful, fast-acting opiate called Fentanyl to knock out Chechen extremists and prevent them from killing the 750 hostages they were holding.

Wiki

They used Fentanyl.. An opiate based pain killer that is 100x stronger than morphine..

reply to post by Kr0n0s


Oh man, I remember that. Good call, thanks for posting.

Eek! I just wouldn't travel on a plane at all if I had to be knocked out or put in stasis. Who knows what could happen to my body. No thanks.

The last time I did go on a plane, I wore leather loafer shoes. The guy in front of me was having the wand done on him and he had to take his shoes off. I'd read about that sort of procedure on the 'net and was fully expecting the same treatment.

But, I was waved through! Didn't get the wand and they didn't make me take off my shoes. Plus, I was carrying my classical flute on the plane because I was going to my brother's wedding and was responsible for the music. I figured they would want to open the case and inspect it. But nope, it went through the scanner and no one said a peep to me.

Then I went through customs and spent a whopping 30 seconds with the customs agent.

Why was I treated differently than others? Of course I kept my mouth shut about all I saw because I didn't want to cause trouble. I played the dumb blonde routine, smiled and walked away.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Originally posted by jackinthebox

But almost as soon as I thought of that, I figured, heck, why not just knock everyone out as soon as they get on the plane? Just to be on the safe side?

Why stop with the plane?
Take this principle and apply it to everyone everywhere.
That'll solve many many problems.
As far as just doing it in flight, you haven't factored the poop and pee logistics into the equation.
Best strategy, take a couple of sleeping pills and whatever happens happens.

Well if you can stand the stinkiness , the one upshot of having everyone on the plane sedated is, the airlines can offer minor dentistry as part of your travel package. Gets iffy with proctology and gynecology though on account of the above mentioned issues.
I'm just thinking out loud here...

I've been thinking about this and I've come to the conclusion that the whole thing is a terrible idea.
I also found this little bit of disturbing AbcNews

reply to post by schrodingers dog


The thing I find most unusual about that report is it was such a short flight, or should have been anyway. But for the most part, being a pilot is utterly boring (with a few sudden spikes of sheer terror) so it really wouldn't surprise me to learn that they fall asleep all the time.

Here's another thread that ties in here too...

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

...Looks like they managed to find something "in-bewtween" for the time-being.