Mars Soil Fit for Life, Tests Confirm

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
But you know the main drawback of living on (or in) Mars... Gravity. Mars is much smaller than Earth, doesn't have the gravity to retain an atmosphere of sufficient pressure for us to breathe without life support gear. Even if we could somehow flip a switch and pump out gigatons of sweet Oxygen/Nitrogen gases and water vapor (ala Total Recall), the Martian gravity is too weak to hold a dense atmosphere — all that good air would just boil off into space, leaving an atmosphere 10X thinner than the summit of Everest.

So, the point is we'll always be limited in how we exploit Mars, we'll always be living in pressurized containers and wearing self-contained breathing apparatus.

Same sort of problems in the other extreme if we ever make it to the so-called "super Earths"... Too much gravity for our frail little Earthly bodies, and atmospheres dense enough to crush us like rotten grapes.

In order to move beyond Earth and exploit new worlds the way we do it best, those new planets must be like all those fantasy alien worlds in Star Trek... All of them had perfect gravity, perfect atmospheres, perfect temperatures, and most were already populated by humanoids. Who spoke English.

This is all the wrong thinking, all of us do it, it's okay. But anyone who thinks of colonies thinks about replicating life on Earth...

Every word you say above is 100% correct, the vast majority of the places we could colonize will be Inside the planet, this is true of our moon as well.

We like to think of life as "surface life" but really, there are so many threats on the surface of a planet, surely even on worlds like our own, periodic extinctions and traumas probably lead to intelligent life sheltering itself, even on Earth now the majority of life lives under the Ocean not right on the surface.

Mars, pressure Gravity... exactly, the only place we will live is underground... that was my whole post. Mars Center is no wher near as active as ours, no magnetic field... That planet has a big, big habitable zone right under the surface for sure, the same goes for Europa...

Mars offers an environment we won't need domes for, some will be nice on the surface to go up and look, but really, never very safe, a rock a sandstorm...

No, we need to change to live on otherworlds, Mars is a simple one, because there is water flowing for sure under the surface it would have to defy physics for this to not be so...

the moon also ehhh, simple because it's so close close enough to send up drilling equipment, in theory we could tunnel through most of the moon, it is not that big but there must be some heat at the center to use as a heat source

so we have what we need, and for some this is an unplesant thought... to live underground, but really, I could get used to it I think, not so bad.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by mopusvindictus]

This is interesting news, but..............


I can't help but wonder how many extraterrestrial visitors have already thought of these things and done them. Our alleged capture and reverse engineering of their space flight technologies has most likely already given a select few here the tools to be doing this as well and way beyond.

Other stories of underwater bases etc. also suggest they are here on this planet and have been for at least 2,000 years. The notion of pouring money into some smoke screen project is like showing us really old technology films and calling it brand new and exciting. I feel like were being treated like little kids in a magic show.

If there are any present surface projects on Mars, these are probably edited out like the alleged moon bases and structures. Most likely built in craters or mountains. A mother ship/city obviously could most likely appear as craters.


The Apollo missions also seemed as if to have been done by an advanced race by comparison. Using that potential from that time period and since then with advancements would put us way past this Mars colony business and scouting out other systems already....wouldn't it?

Originally posted by no name needed

Mars Soil Fit for Life, Tests Confirm

dsc.discovery.com

The Phoenix lander's first taste test of soil near Mars' north pole reveals a briny environment similar to what can be found in backyards on Earth, scientists said Thursday.

The finding raises hope that the Martian arctic plains could have conditions favorable for primitive life. Phoenix landed a month ago to study the habitability of Mars' northern latitudes.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Stop making me laugh! This is the joke of the day. The soils PH balance checks out so anyway. . . . . but hey Mission Control is just having fun with their 500 million dollar pooper scooper. I just thought those new satellites were able to test all this out from above. What the hell good would it do to live on a wasteland? What looking for more dirt? Hey you got make sure its real dirt and not that fake martian type. And those rocks have to check out too. Got make sure you can squeeze every bit of water out you can. Hell there's nothing there don't forget.

And there's no face on Mars. This planet was never like Earth and never supported life. There was never an atmosphere. There are no cities like Aramageddon on Mars. There's no glass towers. No pyramids. No roadways or train tracks. There are no underground bases. There are no temples. And there are certainly no bodies to be recovered. And no spaceships will ever be seen.

NASA should be shutdown because these publicity stunts are becoming very lame. The Bush Administration does a better job at hide and go seek than these clowns.

Originally posted by Unit541
Thing that bugs me is the narrow mindedness exhibited when defining a life supporting environment. For instance, their requirement for organic carbon to be found... Great, so it's a requirement for life as we know it on earth... so what? Doesn't mean it's required for extra-terrestrial life. how many life forms not from earth have we examined, in order to determine carbon is required for all life? Uh, zero last I checked. In these cases, too many seem to forget that there's life as we know it, then there's the possibility of life as we don't know it.

Actually carbon is not a requirement for life here on earth. Until recently (a decade or two) we thought it was, but then we discovered sulfur based life forms surrounding deep sea vents.

So this whole "fit for life" thing irks me as well.

www.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by Unit541

Actually carbon is not a requirement for life here on earth. Until recently (a decade or two) we thought it was, but then we discovered sulfur based life forms surrounding deep sea vents.

Actually, that is not correct. I know where you are coming from though. The life forms near the deep sea vents are still carbon based life forms. Your confusion comes into play in that they are tolerant of, and thrive off, of highly sulfuric environments of these volcanic vents.

Carbon life forms are still the only scientifically known life forms to this day; although, it has been theorized that extraterrestrial life could be based on silicone, nitrogen or sulfur, as well as carbon.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


mopus....you said 'frack'!! LOL!!!

Yeah, can you imagine what would be done with the money WASTED in Iraq, if it had been used to mount a successful manned Mars mission???

And, shrub Jr. has the audacity to 'announce' a bold plan for the next few decades....as a publicity stunt, as a distraction technique. What a Maroon!!

(See, I can say 'Maroon' and circumvent the ATS censors! Oh, and 'frack' works too!!!!) Gods save us!! (That is not a typo...)

Originally posted by WISHADOW
And there's no face on Mars. This planet was never like Earth and never supported life. There was never an atmosphere. There are no cities like Aramageddon on Mars. There's no glass towers. No pyramids. No roadways or train tracks. There are no underground bases. There are no temples. And there are certainly no bodies to be recovered. And no spaceships will ever be seen.

Waxing a bit omniscient there, aren't we? Fact is, you can't make any of those declarative statements and be taken seriously. Based on what we think we know about Mars, chances are that it was, at one time, a bit warmer and had liquid water on the surface. What do you think carved out all of those intricate "waterways" and massive canyons on Mars? Wind erosion?

Oh, but wait, you said there was no atmosphere, so no wind, right? C'mon, pull your head out of your crater.

NASA has officially stated it's 90% certain that at least bacterial life existed on Mars at some point in the past, based on meteoritic evidence with which you're surely acquainted. Yes, if it existed, Martian life may have died out long ago — like, 1.5 billion years ago — but, even so, the possibility that Life existed on 2 planets at the same time in the same solar system is an amazing thought.

It skews the Drake Equation in favor of Life proliferating throughout the universe. It lends more credibility to the theory of panspermia (Life migrating through the cosmos by way of comets, etc, and infecting hospitable worlds that it encounters). And it brings another sci-fi theory "down to Earth," so to speak — the theory that Life on Mars somehow seeded Life on Earth. Or vise versa.

I'm not a believer in vast civilizations and emerald cities and pyramids on Mars, because there's no evidence at all to support those harebrained claims. That's a bunch of snake-oil fabricated almost exclusively by Richard Hoaxland in order to sell his stupid videos and ensure his continued speaking engagements. The guy is a loser, and those who buy his snake-oil are gullible rubes.

But the likelihood of ancient Life on Mars is considerable, and the actual scientific data gathered so far — as opposed to Dick Hoaxland's unscientific anti-data — seems to support the ancient Life theory more and more.

Now, if we found a LIVING microbe on Mars, that would blow the doors and the roof off of the house.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Yeah, can you imagine what would be done with the money WASTED in Iraq, if it had been used to mount a successful manned Mars mission???

Weed, you're joking, right? As if the enormous amount of cash channeled into an international military operation would ever be directed to something as benign and fraught with failure as interplanetary exploration? NASA is lucky to get one-tenth of one percent of our national military budget.

And nevermind Bush's war in Iraq... We (in the USA) were spending MORE money on war during the Clinton Administration. Haiti. Somalia. Sudan. Iraq. Bosnia & Herzegovina. We exhausted our entire cruise missile arsenal under the reign of Bill Clinton. And you know we're still paying for U.S. troops who are still stationed in Bosnia?

So, get real and lose your partisan hate. If we weren't spending money on a war, we'd be wasting it on Congressional pork, with our esteemed Representatives and Senators spending $2.00 for every $1.00 they receive in tax revenue.

Just remember, the President doesn't decide how our money is spent. Congress does. Or, rather, the corporate interests who own Congress decide how it's spent.

Seems we can plant Asparagus on Mars


Fox News Video report... Astronaut Tom Jones reports
www.foxnews.com...

Scoop reveals ice in the soil...


www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Mars lander finds salty environment in taste test

(AP) -- The Phoenix lander's first taste test of soil near Mars' north pole reveals a briny environment similar to what can be found in backyards on Earth, scientists said Thursday.
The finding raises hope that the Martian arctic plains could have conditions favorable for primitive life. Phoenix landed a month ago to study the habitability of Mars' northern latitudes.

"There's nothing about it that would preclude life. In fact, it seems very friendly," mission scientist Samuel Kounaves of Tufts University said of the soil. "There's nothing about it that's toxic."

Phoenix so far has not detected organic carbon considered an essential building block of life. Last week, the lander found evidence of ice below the soil. Scientists generally agree that liquid water, a stable energy source and organic, or carbon-containing, compounds are required for a habitable zone.

www.physorg.com...

Lander Finds Conditions For Life On Mars
www.cbsnews.com...

So once upon a time...

NASA told us Mars was a dry barren dead world... now we have seen steady progression through there used to be water; there used to be a LOT of water; there might be water still; there are signs of current liquid water(the gullies); there is water ice at the poles; there is enough water ice that if melted could cover Mars 30 feet deep... and now we find soil conditions favorable to life...

Just add water and see if anything stirs

The fact that they found no toxins detrimental to life and a soil rich in nutrients favorable to life as we know it on Earth is very significant in IMO

Soil is ok for certain plants, but that is not a sign of life. All we know for sure is, water ice and dirt that can grow certain plants. We also know the air is a problem, and the radiation.

Updates from NASA Phoenix site...

Phoenix Returns Treasure Trove for Science

NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander performed its first wet chemistry experiment on Martian soil flawlessly yesterday, returning a wealth of data that for Phoenix scientists was like winning the lottery.

"We are awash in chemistry data," said Michael Hecht of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, lead scientist for the Microscopy, Electrochemistry and Conductivity Analyzer, or MECA, instrument on Phoenix. "We're trying to understand what is the chemistry of wet soil on Mars, what's dissolved in it, how acidic or alkaline it is. With the results we received from Phoenix yesterday, we could begin to tell what aspects of the soil might support life."

"This is the first wet-chemical analysis ever done on Mars or any planet, other than Earth," said Phoenix co-investigator Sam Kounaves of Tufts University, science lead for the wet chemistry investigation.

About 80 percent of Phoenix's first, two-day wet chemistry experiment is now complete. Phoenix has three more wet-chemistry cells for use later in the mission.

"This soil appears to be a close analog to surface soils found in the upper dry valleys in Antarctica," Kouvanes said. "The alkalinity of the soil at this location is definitely striking. At this specific location, one-inch into the surface layer, the soil is very basic, with a pH of between eight and nine. We also found a variety of components of salts that we haven't had time to analyze and identify yet, but that include magnesium, sodium, potassium and chloride."

www.nasa.gov...

Disappearing Ice In Color


Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona/Texas A&M University

CAPTION

These color images were acquired by NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander's Surface Stereo Imager on the 21st and 25th days of the mission, or Sols 20 and 24 (June 15 and 19, 2008).

These images show sublimation of ice in the trench informally called "Dodo-Goldilocks" over the course of four days.

In the lower left corner of the left image, a group of lumps is visible. In the right image, the lumps have disappeared, similar to the process of evaporation.

The Phoenix Mission is led by the University of Arizona, Tucson, on behalf of NASA. Project management of the mission is by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Spacecraft development is by Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver.

www.nasa.gov...

Full Resolution Image


Phoenix Lander Image Gallery

reply to post by zorgon


'sublimation'......that is the word of the day, as we on ATS seek to 'Deny Ignorance'

Frozen CO2 (dry ice) we all buy on Hallowe'en, to make that creepy mist, will sublimate very quickly, in Earth's atmosphere (the thing you and I breathe to stay alive).

Put an equal amount (a chunk) of dry ice, next to a water ice chunk.

Handle the CO2 with care, use gloves!!

THEN, see which one sublimates first!!!! (Hint.....the CO2 goes away very fast...the ice just melts, into water.....because our atmospheric pressure allows water to remain liquid!!!!!!)

Frozen CO2 will not change to a liquid, on Earth. Nitrogen, and Oxygen, can indeed be liquified, when made cold enough. CO2 is a compound molecule, though.....whereas Ni and O are elements.

OK, discuss!! Carry on!!!!

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon....looking at Sol 20 versus Sol 24.....yes, we saw the chunks, size of dice, sublimate....

BUT....assuming that the photos were taken (based on the shadows) at the same time of 'Sol'.....why did the white stuff in the bottom (top) of the trench change?

What I mean is, did a sandstorm come through?? Or....well....I'll let YOU field this, if you get my drift?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
What I mean is, did a sandstorm come through??

It seems more likely that the white stuff that didn't melt is salt of some composition



Have you all noticed though that in the effort to show us "Snow White" ice... NASA is giving us true color images? Nice BRIGHT sunlight... not the 'normal' dark red soil... Its funny how easily people forget and just go on as if nothing has changed looks more like Nevada






Caption
This color image taken by the Surface Stereo Imager on NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander shows the trench dubbed "Snow White," after further digging on the 25th Martian day, or sol, of the mission (June 19, 2008). The lander's solar panel is casting a shadow over a portion of the trench.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by zorgon]

If and when we do colonize mars, lets try not to bring any mosquitoes along for the ride. Damn mosquitoes.

Originally posted by CommanderSinclair
If and when we do colonize mars, lets try not to bring any mosquitoes along for the ride. Damn mosquitoes.

No worries... mosquitoes need open water swamps to breed... and we haven't found those... yet

reply to post by zorgon


Actually, Zorgon....looks more like the Big Island of Hawai'i.....the Kona Coast.

As you should know, and everyone here on ATS....I have only recently learned that a CCD device (hey! You have one in your digital camera) only records variations in light values. The software then imputes the colors.

Think about it....how do they 'colorize' those old TV shows?????

EDIT, just for Z....yeah, I'm the 'herr professor'....but I still make typos!! OK, satisfied????

Ted Turner, you should be spinning in your grave!!! What?? Turner isn't dead ???

oops.....

[edit on 6/27/0808 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by zorgon
Seems we can plant Asparagus on Mars

Well, not quite. I think NASA/JPL made a blunder in describing Martian soil as "just like the soil in your backyard"... It's a far cry from viable soil.

Martian "soil" is comprised of inorganic compounds such as silica and salts and elemental igneous minerals, which we certainly have here on Earth in abundance. But inorganic sand does not living soil make. Planting anything in Martian soil alone can be likened to planting in a matrix of crushed glass with a little rock salt, iron filings and pulverized basalt thrown in. Top that off with a few billion years of super-cold temperatures, only traces of liquid water and constant exposure to hard ultraviolet radiation, and your Martian "garden" is going to enjoy about the same agricultural success as the rest of the Martian surface. Cold, dead and sterile.

Now, if you brought a few hundred pounds of Martian dirt back to Earth, shoveled in some high quality cow manure, and dosed it with 20-20-20 Miracle Grow™, you'd probably harvest some decent asparagus.

The difference between Terran soil and Martian soil is that our soil is permeated with rich, complex organic molecules, the product of billions of years of Life feverishly living and dying upon and below the Earth's surface. Martian soil is just sterile brick powder.




[edit on 6/27/2008 by Doc Velocity]