Strategic Unit Movements : Tactics 101

This is the first time I've forayed into this forum area of ATS. I have been taught military strategy since I was six years old by a man who I respect wholeheartedly to this day and revere as the only hero I have ever truly had in life.

My step-father came into being in the family due to a divorce. He was a Marine during Vietnam and taught survival tactics, military strategy, war history, war ethics, anything and everything you can possibly think of as a tactic I was taught through lessons when a bully situation happened or I did something stupid and made a mistake.

What I'm referring to here in this ATS thread is the terms of "Fall Back vs Retreat" and I was taught the difference in a way so that I would never fall into the stupidity trap of most people in life.

From the way I was taught, if you need to make a movement due to overwhelmingly hostile forces, you always "fall back" and never ever "retreat", being that to fall back is an organized troop movement, and to retreat is in essence a mindless panicking action.

In military slang, fall back, is a term used on the battlefield to retreat; i.e., falling back to another position, and to retreat it is considered a relatively risky operation, requiring discipline to keep from turning into a disorganized rout.

I was taught the only reason to fall back was because you were overwhelmed by forces trying to take your position, whereas a retreat was something that is the same thing, but due to a lack of discipline can turn into a panic and troops might be overwhelmed as well as shot in the back as they run.

If however you want to use tactics wisely, then to subvert the enemy to make a huge mistake, you make it appear as if you are retreating, in mindless panic, leading them into a trap or ambush.

I thought I would talk a small amount on battle tactics here in this forum area and I'll outline a real life situation at another time where I actually used this tactic when I was a teenager and initiated a double-pincer movement plus a bushwhack against some really stupid teens who were intending to kill because I was the one teen who would not take their drugs, cigarettes, or associate with them because I was a Christian and they were secular.

They had fifteen young teens, and were sneaky with school administration in their lies, I had a brain between two ears and a four foot chain with one inch links, and superior knowledge of battle tactics, superior knowledge of the surrounding areas, as well as knowledge of usage of said combined knowledge of the Art of War in conjunction with their eager yet stupid wanton desire to kill.

I can not encourage you to do what I did, in fact I wholeheartedly discourage it. If you try what I did, in way, shape, or form, you might just actually get killed, and I do not want that. That being said, that's the Public Service Announcement part of this thread.

Do not attempt this at home, ever.

I never hurt one of those fifteen other teens.

They were way underprepared.

All Law Enforcement interaction agreed with what I did, to an extent even though I had a weapon.

I was taught to never be a follower, but to be a leader.

Do not be a stupid lemming and go with the flow stupidly, but to stand as the one man who can turn back the tide of stupidity if I know what is truly going on as well as how to do it.




[edit on 25-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

[edit on 1-7-2008 by lombozo]

Intelligent tactics is something to consider at all times.

You can use the Art of War and implement it in a peaceful way like I have now done in the lifespan of thirty-five years of existence I have lived. The one mention there of violence does not make a violent person.

Besides, I never actually used the weapon I picked up. That's called using your weapon wisely as well because it takes someone intelligent to know when to use one let alone when not to use one.

I wish our Government were that smart sometimes.



[edit on 25-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I have turned the Art of War into the Art of Peace in My life. I still practice tactics intelligently though.

I hope that this falls within the topic when it comes to acting smart .

When it comes to escape and evasion evasion or just your general travels there are some basic precautions you can take .

1. Avoid any trails .
   
2. Bury your rubbish and bodily waste .
   
3. Don't use deodorant or perfumes .
   
4. If you chose to cross country and you have slept in a ditch you will smell like it. Chose between travelling thou the wildness or in urban areas .
   
5. Should you have the luxury of the use of helicopters liked the US military used in Vietnam don't use them for regular resupply unless you want everyone within a one hundred miles knowing your position .
   

Of course be wary of any source of light or noise that will give your presence away . You may be trying to infiltrate an area or prevent unfriendly forces from infiltrating your geographical location . The final two things of note for now are that local knowledge is king and DON'T GET COMPLACENT .

reply to post by xpert11


Sounds like an organized withdrawal, switching to evasion to Me. Thanks for the comment.

I was referring to the difference between "fall back" and "retreat" but your comment is welcome of course as well.

Don't forget to flag, star, and thread-tag this so it gets more recognition. Thanks.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

While there is elements to escape and evasion in what I eluded to in a true escape and evasion scenario you would also have to take measures against tracker dogs and so on . The first three items come from hearing and reading about the experience of Diggers in Vietnam . Of course a lot depends on Situation X and the terrain. But the fact remains no matter what you doing if your presence is detected there is very little you can accomplish.

So in the context of the topic you could gain a tactical advantage by falling back undetected . You may also want to fool your enemy into that you are still in a particular area. Play smart and take advantage of any mistakes your enemy makes .

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Hey

I've got a question relating to fallback/retreat/evasion.

Hyperthetically, say you and five freinds are needing to escape a superior force.

The superior force have numbers on there side dogs and thermal imaging gear.

How would you go about losing them?

What steps could you take to stop it becoming a complete rout?

The only idea that comes to mind is to set traps to slow them down but that means you yourself have to stop which means they have time to close the gap.

Great thread by the way!

Okay, you said dogs and thermal imaging gear, which by that I am assuming you mean FLIR, or Forward Looking Infra-Red.

To throw off a dogs scent is easy enough. Dirt and lots of mud. Run through water, a river or stream preferably. This is nothing new to anyone as it has been in almost every survival movie ever. That's the answer to that I'm giving here on this area that's monitored of everything put on there.

As for FLIR, well it dictates that it seeks out your body's heat, and the opposite of heat is what? Enough said, figure it out. I can't say more without getting into heaps of trouble.

Setting traps is for experienced people with means to do so, I can't advocate it, because by commiting acts of violence you are only adding to whatever the offense you committed or is implied you committed to begin with. Yes, you are correct, to stop and set traps would only help them close the gap.

To fall back efficiently and effectively, one needs to have had a strategy and contingency plan in place effectively negating any planned action against you to begin with. This is dictated by military doctrine of strategy and tactics as well as the law of survival.

Retreating, is usually an act of unplanned movement in the opposing direction you are intending to drive into. If you are retreating from someone, via unplanned movement, you are putting yourself into a "run rabbit run" scenario, wherein whomever is chasing you becomes the hunter and you are their prey.

You never ever want to be put into this position, and I can speak from personal experience, it sucks the big donkey. I've been stalked off and on since I was six years old, children, teens, and adults of the respective ages at the time I was in interaction with them during school, neighborhood, or work related experiences.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Thanks for the reply SKL you bring up some good points, I liked your first posts so I thought I'd throw a hyperthetcal situation into the mix.

P.S. The info's not to help me plan any clandestine operations.

Originally posted by fred3110
Thanks for the reply SKL you bring up some good points, I liked your first posts so I thought I'd throw a hyperthetcal situation into the mix.

P.S. The info's not to help me plan any clandestine operations.

Oh, I didn't assume it would be to plan a clandestine operation, but then again, I'm not stupid.

Glad you liked the first post, and all "hypothetical situations" are welcome here. If I was to tell you the things I really know it would be at a face to face meeting, as anything else, e-mail, message boards, and telephone is monitored, and sometimes in conjunction with each other.

Why do you think all the criminals in the media have been getting busted so easily lately. It's a trending thing I keep a perspective on at all times. They are literally nailing every scumwad in existence through every means possible right now.

Yeah I understand, the internets great for sharing info and ideas...just not to much info and not every idea

Looking back at my post it looks quite shady! After reading your posts I
saw an episode of Street Crime UK it seems once the chopper and the dogs are out there's no chance of escaping so I thought hmmm what chance have you got in escaping that!...mind you the people there after usually turn out to be complete fools one person thought they could get away by hiding up a tree lol.

I hope no would be crims are reading this thread getting pointers!

reply to post by fred3110


Well, as most criminals can not properly read, nor have the inclination towards internet activity. But, for the uninitiated the newer "terror laws" state to assist a terrorist you can be locked away for life.

This is good stuff.
Leonidas, if you think of some more useful info then I would love to read it.

Originally posted by NTXfirefighter
This is good stuff.
Leonidas, if you think of some more useful info then I would love to read it.

Thanks for the kudos.

For an organized withdrawal, or falling back, you need to have a predertmined fallback position, and that information given only to those within a Unit that you trust, like Sergeant's, Lieutenant's, etc, if it were a military Unit. This is because if all the Private's, PFC's, and Lance Corporal's were ot know all the details and be taken prisoner by their stupidity, then this information would fall into enemy hands. They could then set up a trap, and then you'd be screwed.

Patton knew this, Rommel knew this, now you know it.



[edit on 27-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

A dog is only as good as his handler.

Either wear him out through superior fitness or draw him/them onto open ground and snipe him/her, try for a wounding others have to diengage to carry him out. Even if you don't hit them, the act will slow them down by becoming more cautious. Pick the spot where their entrance and your exit are to your advantage.

If you are upwind, light the field grass on fire, it may attack them and/or mess up the dogs that follow an air trail, most miltary and LE dogs are not ground scent followers.

For dogs that do follow a ground trail, a well aged jug of human urine has the stank to mess then up. Ammonia and hunting lures also work. Peppers, black and spray red don't work well.

I should have titled this thread Tactics 101. Are there specific tactics anyone wants to discuss other than the ones I have outlined so far?

I'm going to see if I can get a Moderator to rename it to Tactics 101 or something similar.

I have to say thanks for the Moderator assistance in changing the name of thread. I felt the original name, while it was interesting, essentially pigeon-holed the thread with how far it could go.

Strategic Unit Movements : Tactics 101 sounds so much better, so that it can go further with different aspects of tactical situations.

SKL,
Heh nice thread. I have played chess since I was 11. Many games characterize what I think you are talking about. Some you have to play defence a while - "falling back" regroup forces for counterattack.
I suspect survival is a lot like hunting deer. I was a good shot with a bow. However, getting a good shot at a deer took much learning in the field.

BP

SpartanKingLeonidas I don't claim to be an expert in these matters . An awful lot depends on the terrain you face . In desert(SP?) terrain you may want to travel at night to avoid extreme temperates . You wont have much cover but by the same token you should see whatever is coming a mile off. People tend to grossly underestimate how hard it can be to capture a single or small group of persons .