WTC-7 North Side MASSIVE Fires .... CBS News

Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by Kulturcidist

 

You should do some real research on 911, You might find out that we have all been lied to.

We all know the Government version of 911. We know that they Lied to us.

We know our own Government "lied" us in to War.

You come in this thread, to belittle us for asking Question. We have a right to our own believes.

I am sorry you dont like it.

But you Cant make us Believe in a Lie!
We are not buying it.... the Government version of 911.

right on bad toothed homeless Tibetan man!!! -I'm tired of these numb skulled
people as well!

I'm with U - the real question we should consider is what coarse of action can we take?

I have pondered this as have many of my friends---???

Just like in 30's Germany the increased intelligence - spying apparatus was justified as being necessary for national security against unknown outside foes.

Just like 30's Germany I think the true purpose is to monitor and quell internal voices of dissidence from within!

There is not much recourse for us at this point.

Numb skulls are just deputized idea police. If things ever get out of control once truth starts to leak these same people will feel justified busting our heads and locking us up!!!

reply to post by mental modulator


LOL what ever we do We all need to do it together, I think WE THE PEOPLE need to stop paying our TAXES.

Our Government dosnt feel the need to Answer to WE THE PEOPLE!

Our Government has lost trillions of dollars of Tax paying money.
They dont want to tell us the truth about anything anymore.
This is NOT a Government for the people by the people.

We should not suport this Corrupt Government and We all need to stike together when we all do this.

Originally posted by bsbray11
Just found this bit of testimony hosted by the New York Times and thought it was extremely interesting.


This how firefighter command first got the idea that buildings were going to be falling, and look where they said it came from (it's the NYT's txt converted from pdf graphically, so bear with it) :

graphics8.nytimes.com...

ok a little off topic here:

Bsbray,

I have read that in the past along with several other statements. Your take is that Giuliani knew for a fact the towers were coming down? I would have to go out on a limb here and admit that it is VERY probable that someone told OEM, Giuliani, etc of the possibility that the tower or towers would collapse.

Here is some info you might find interesting:

Assistant Chief Joseph Callan:

Approximately 40 minutes after I arrived in the lobby, I made a decision that the building was no longer safe. And that was based on the conditions in the lobby, large pieces of plaster falling, all the 20 foot high glass panels on the exterior of the lobby were breaking. There was obvious movement of the building, and that was the reason on the handy talky I gave the order for all Fire Department units to leave the north tower.

www.nytimes.com...

Here are a couple statements from people that were with Giuliani:

I received a radio transmission from FDNY Captain Joe Folino, an OEM responder, who informed me that the Mayor had requested that I join him and Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik at 75 Barclay Street, where they were establishing a temporary executive command center. I left the North Tower lobby and went to Barclay Street.

In addition to the Mayor and the Police Commissioner, several Deputy Mayors and Senior City Hall staff were at the command post. The Mayor was on the phone with the White House, and had been told the White House was being evacuated. Suddenly, the building began to shake, and someone yelled the towers were coming down. We could hear the roar of the building collapsing, and then there was silence and darkness.

FORMER COMMISSIONER OF THE NEW YORK CITY
OFFICE OF EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
RICHARD J. SHEIRER

www.globalsecurity.org...

From there Giuliani, needing phone lines, commandeered a Merrill Lynch back office at 75 Barclay Street. After 45 minutes someone yelled, "Get down! It’s coming down!" The force of the collapse flattened the building across the street,

myhero.com...

..Lhota says. “We got through to the governor’s office and peppered them with questions: Is this terrorism? Are more planes on the way? Are the airports closed? Should we close the tunnels? The mayor also wanted to talk to the White House. As I handed him the phone, saying, ‘Vice President Cheney is about to get on the line,’ a police official ran in yelling, ‘Get down! Everybody get down! It’s coming down!’ ”

www.alumni.hbs.edu...

I am curious. If he did in fact know beforehand of this dubious plan, or even found out that day from the sinister Republicans... why was he so close to the WTC during the collapses?



[edit on 29-6-2008 by ThroatYogurt]

Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by mental modulator

 

LOL what ever we do We all need to do it together, I think WE THE PEOPLE need to stop paying our TAXES.



We should not suport this Corrupt Government and We all need to stike together when we all do this.

Let me know how that works out for ya!

Several have tried... you end up in jail or dead.

But hey...you start the revolution and see if you can do better than these guys:



1. Lester Piggott. The jockey won dozens of major races but lost his liberty when he was convicted of tax evasion. He spent 12 months in jail.

2. Al Capone. Tax evasion wasn't really the gangster's biggest claim to criminal fame - that would probably be the St Valentine's Day Massacre - but it was all that the FBI could get him on. He was sentenced to 11 years and spent a significant part of that time in Alcatraz but was released after seven and a half years; he also paid off all his fines and back taxes.

3. Leona Helmsley. The hotel tycoon, who left $12 million to her dog when she died last year, has also spent time in prison for tax evasion. At her trial, a former employee gave evidence that she'd heard Helmsley say "Only the little people pay taxes." (Clearly she hadn't heard about Lester Piggott at this point).

4. Heidi Fleiss. Good at running an escort business; not so good at tax returns. Sentenced to three years for tax evasion, money laundering and pandering. (I believe that it's important to take a firm line against pandas and thus fully support this decision).

5. Boris Becker. No jail time for the tax-evading tennis player; simply a big fine and two years' probation for claiming to live in Monte Carlo while actually living in Germany.

6. Mikhail Khodorkovsky. The Russian oil tycoon was jailed for nine years in 2005 on charges including tax evasion and fraud. His supporters maintain that he's the victim of a political vendetta thanks to donations that he made to opposition parties.

7. Marc Anthony. Mr J.Lo agreed to pay about $2.5 million in back taxes, interest and penalties earlier this month after he failed to file returns for five years. Manhattan District Attorney Robert Morgenthau said that Anthony, who was not prosecuted on tax charges, failed to file returns from 2000 to 2004.

8. General Augusto Pinochet. The late Chilean dictator was found by a US Senate investigation to have kept multimillion-dollar secret accounts at the Riggs Bank in Washington. They also said he had up to $17 million in foreign accounts. The Chilean courts charged Pinochet with owing $9.8 million in unpaid taxes.

9. Chuck Berry. The duck-walking rock 'n' roll legend has served three terms in prison, the last of which was for tax evasion. Berry pleaded guilty and was sentenced to four months in prison and 1,000 hours of community service in 1979.

10. Luciano Pavarotti. The late great tenor was convicted of tax evasion in 1999 and ordered to pay $11 million by the Italian courts. But a subsequent accusation of tax evasion in 2001 didn't stick and he was acquitted.

11. Richard Pryor. The comedian served ten days in the Los Angeles County Jail for tax evasion after he reportedly "forgot" to pay up. He later returned to the prison to play a benefit gig for the inmates.

12. Sophia Loren. The actress was charged with tax evasion in 1982 and spent 18 days in an Italian prison.


Death & Taxes

Maybe the answers are more logical than you think.

People in WT7 started panicking and escaping, knocking over a lamp which caught fire on the carpet. Fires then spread. It's possible

reply to post by ThroatYogurt


Now I didnt mean just one, or two, peopleto stop paying taxes, I am talking about the whole Country, I am talking about 300 million people to STOP! paying thier taxes all at the same time.

I am talking about bring this Corrupt Government to an end!

I am talking about WE THE PEOPLE.

I know If we just site and do nothing and shut our mouth there will not be a United States of America anymore.

We are heading down hill fast.

This Greedy Corrupt lieing Government are only serveing the Corp pigs
& big oil Co.

WE THE PEOPLE, need to stop given hard earn tax dollars, to these Corrupt pigs who are wasting, and stealing, our Money.

I believe, We can vote good people, who really care about our Country.
People who dont hob-nob with the rich.

Our Elections, are already for sale to the highest bidder!

I belive, we need to take Control of our vote counting, and do all of it out in the open.

I believe, we need to go back to paper balots that leave a paper trail.

But this Government, need a strong message sent to them that we have had enough.
Because they DONT HEAR US!
So, I think if we ALL "stop" paying taxes they might HEAR us!


This is a way of wakeing up this Government!
lol what are they going to do to us, arrest 300 million people, I think not!

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by fastfingersfunk
You guys are forgetting to add in the massive structural damage

Please show me this massive structural damage to WTC7.

I have yet to see it, and trust me I've been looking for the last 5 years.

Also please explain how sporadic fires and asymmetrical damage can cause a complete global collapse into its own footprint.

And please don't quote the NIST report at me, as it is in question and nothing in it explains WTC 7, or the towers collapses.

Where is your research?

i already showed massive structural damage, a hole ripped down 20 stories of the face from WTC1 debris, starting at the top. according to the blueprints, there are I beams crucial to the buildings rigidity that would have been compromised by that gash. now show me evidence of a controlled demolition.

also, it seems you are in denial about NIST (or just aren't up to date). here is a FULL report on the collapse of WTC7, in which it documents the various degrees of damage and how they would contribute to the collapse. wtc.nist.gov...

but i understand that it's easier just to say "they are questionable reports" rather than actually looking at them and proving the data wrong.

there are various videos with AUDIO of the collapse and guess what, no demolition sounds. explain that.

also, when a building of this size collapses it collapses into it's own footprint, there is no other way for it to fall. buildings with a large footprint don't fall sideways, it's impossible. if major support beams are compromised and cause a failure, the whole building will fall. you will have to provide some structural engineering evidence that shows a building with damage of this nature (and there is massive damage covering 20 stories, even if you wish to deny it) would not collapse "into it's own footprint".









[edit on 30-6-2008 by fastfingersfunk]

reply to post by fastfingersfunk


FFF...

The completed report for WTC-7 has not been released as of yet. They stopped their investigation to only work on WTC 1&2.

Thanks,

:TY:

Originally posted by ThroatYogurt
reply to post by fastfingersfunk

 

FFF...

The completed report for WTC-7 has not been released as of yet. They stopped their investigation to only work on WTC 1&2.

Thanks,

:TY:

i rsponded to a statement that nothing by NIST explains the collapse of WTC. that is false. they compile their findings here. while not a "complete report", it certainly is not "nothing". wtc.nist.gov...

and if everyone is basing their opinions of WTC7 on what NIST is going to say, NIST already said there is NO evidence of a controlled demolition.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by fastfingersfunk]

Originally posted by fastfingersfunk
i already showed massive structural damage, a hole ripped down 20 stories of the face from WTC1 debris, starting at the top.

Showed? No you didn't.

Originally posted by fastfingersfunk
also, it seems you are in denial about NIST (or just aren't up to date). here is a FULL report on the collapse of WTC7, in which it documents the various degrees of damage and how they would contribute to the collapse. wtc.nist.gov...

Does talking nonsense help your case?

Didn't you bother to read it? Published on April 5 2005 it stated: WTC 7 report will be issued as a supplement to the main report: draft planned for October 2005; final for December 2005.

The document you cited merely outlines the "Schedule for Completion" - which so far they got wrong by two and a half years and their "Investigation Objectives" to support an hypothesis "If it remains viable upon further analysis" that WTC 7 was a "classic progressive collapse".

Even the title of their hypothesis is absurd. A "classic" progressive collapse? How can the global collapse of a steel framed high rise be classic when it is entirely singular? There are no other examples, save those induced by controlled demolition.

Throat Yogurt.... I love your name. Classy. And funny.

I'm just going to say this one thing, though, because the arguments are useless.

In response to your opinion on what happened to wtc7, I must say:

Nope. That's not what happened.

We need you on our side pretty soon, man.

The truthers were onto something with their theories. You can deny it until you can't deny it anymore... and the day you can't deny it anymore is the day I will pat you on the shoulder and tell you it's all going to be okay, because you'll need the comfort. It's tough, and hopefully your blinders will erode soon. Trust me, they are there.

reply to post by EvilAxis


NIST already stated there is NO evidence of a controlled demoltion so a FINAL report really doesn't matter. NO evidence of a controlled demolition means their final report will also say NO evidence of a controlled demolition.


also, DID YOU LOOK AT THE DOCUMENT? by saying it merely "outlines the schedule" proves you haven't even looked at it. it is a comprehensive compiliation of the evidence that they have complied that will be used to prove their final report.

now once again, here is video showing the gap down the face of WTC7 that is clearly there (30 second mark). but you can't show me a single video that has explosive sounds such as a controlled demo??? why is that?



this is what a controlled demolition sounds like. WTC7? no.







[edit on 30-6-2008 by fastfingersfunk]

reply to post by fastfingersfunk



I base my evidence on the only evidence we as average citizens have...which is good evidence: the video.

It's the best piece of evidence, actually... because humans have this inherent natural ability to understand basic physics, like when you shoot a basketball into a hoop, your brain automatically calibrates all of your motions, based on split second analysis of the environment around you, the weight of the ball, the wind direction, the shape of your build...and BAM, basket made.

What I saw that day, and later when I stumbled upon wtc7 footage a few years later... nobody had to convince me of anything. I would've said STFU if they did. I spied with my little eyes.... a controlled demolition of some sort.

based on the same principles it takes to throw a basket or jump precisely from one spot to another... just knowing and feeling how gravity and dynamics of movement and energy works, there's just no doubt... unless you are in denial, and you are looking for any other rational explanation other than the one you would've made.... had it not been for the hour or two buildup in the media where they were constantly repeating "building 7 is on fire, massive damage, collapse imminent." over and over again like a mantra.... and ya fell for it, dude! Almost all of us did, much to our detriment.

Fastfingerfunk - You're simply disproving your own point by reposting a video which any balanced witness can see does NOT show "massive structural damage, a hole ripped down 20 stories of the face".

Go back and play the video I posted that records a succession of loud bangs and re-read the firemen's oral testimony (a small part of which I posted) that attests unequivocally to the explosions before and during the collapse. You continue to wilfully misrepresent the evidence.

So if NIST says it wasn't controlled demolition they don't have to publish a report that proves it? It's an argument of sorts I suppose...

[edit on 30-6-2008 by EvilAxis]

reply to post by dunwichwitch


if you base your opinions on video, look at my last post.

one video depicts WTC7 with a huge gash down the face starting from the top. caused by WTC1 debris and when coupled with the blueprints, shows that it would have compromised critical beams.

the next video depicts a controlled demolition of a smaller building with massive explosions. yet not a single peep out of WTC7. so if i based my evidence on just the videos, i would conclude that WTC7 fell due to damage and nothing proves a demolition. in fact, it disproves a demolition.

reply to post by EvilAxis



if you are in denial of the damage caused by WTC1 debris (a gap over 20 stories starting at the penthouse) and that there is not a single explosion such as a REAL demolition then i can't help you.


i went back and i don't see any video of demolition sounds before the WTC7 collapse but feel free to post it again in case i'm missing it.




[edit on 30-6-2008 by fastfingersfunk]

reply to post by fastfingersfunk


We all recognize the gash.... but what we don't recognize is why did the whole building fall evenly down into its footprint, instead of partial collapse? The structure of the building must have been strong if a collapsing portion of one side could pull the whole building down.... and furthermore, if it WAS strong enough, then it wouldn't collapse in the first place.... and yes, we recognize the fires, too. We also learn from events of the past and realize that those fires were not enough to bring the building down. Hell, a wood structure could burn for hours, and the skeleton will still be standing or partially collapsed.

The numbers and the scrutinizing science almost do injustice to the simple observations you can make by just analyzing the video once or twice.

Ya know, and when you have a NATIONAL institute involved, you have corporate and government partnerships and all of that.... so why trust them at all?

NIST can say the sun doesn't shine in the day, and what we're supposed to go "Okay, we've been disproven."?

NIST already stated there is NO evidence of a controlled demoltion so a FINAL report really doesn't matter. NO evidence of a controlled demolition means their final report will also say NO evidence of a controlled demolition.

Where does it say that the building collapsed from fire and debris? Because if it doesent say that it doesent support the 'official story either'.

THIS is a controlled demolition and what it sounds like. i can post these all day if you'd like. WTC7? no.

Originally posted by jprophet420

Where does it say that the building collapsed from fire and debris? Because if it doesent say that it doesent support the 'official story either'.

PAGE 6

Working Collapse Hypothesis for WTC 7
- An initial local failure at the lower floors (below Floor 13) of the building due to fire and/or debris induced structural damage of a critical column (the initiating event), which supported a large span floor bay with an area of about 2,000 ft2