warp speed, please

In all of my research into UFOs and aliens i have noticed a reoccurring theme that includes the theory of humans only being contacted if we reach the pinnacle of as fast, or faster than, light speed traveling capabilities. or warp speed, if you want to get all treky.

My theory is that we have already developed this technology, independent of extraterrestrial influences, and because of that we have been visited regularly since th inception of our creation.

Many say that once we develop this tech. then the aliens are going to announce themselves to the world by flying their fancy spaceships over every continent, town, city, do that every person sees them and believes.

i disagree.

I believe that they would be selective in their contact, limiting it to the ones who created the technology, and would otherwise be not interested in the general population.

the people who they contacted would most likely be scientists but, scientists controlled by a powerful, and secret, administration.

This administration would use their contact, and new found technology to gain a level of control over the general population and would not disclose because then the people of the world would be less easy to control.

we have the technology, im very sure of that, and im pretty sure we have the contact.

if these beings were benevolent then they would initiate contact with the rest of the human race, not just the select few. which brings me to the conclusion that these beings do not care about our best interest as a society as a whole.

to those of you who wish to be contacted, it is probably not a good idea.

i just thought id write this because i am sick of being a sheep controlled by a never-ending field of sinful shepards.

if this is the case then maybe we need to get the smartest private civilians on ats to get together and develop an antigravity device so we can get our contact.

IT can be done. i believe that there only need be a will to do so, and the path will become clear.

Well written thesis, IMO. I don't believe that we've achieve hyper-lightspeed technology, but I do believe that we've acheived technology that is dangerous in our hands. I think it's likely that we're on the cusp of either causing irreparable damage to our planet, and perhaps by interaction, other planets, and we haven't much of a clue as to the repercussions of those experiments. Now, I realize this sounds like the folks that worried, in the 1940's , that nuclear reactions might vaporize our atmosphere. Consider, though, that the observations of UFO activity seems to have ramped up since our obvious nuclear testing. I wonder sometimes if we must seem as toddlers who have been errantly given loaded guns. What good can come of that, without the knowledge of proper safety and responsibility?

I think there must be something unique about Earth and its inhabitants -- something that makes us somewhat of an enigma to the "others". I think if it were a matter of just raw resource materials that the Earth has, they'd just take them. No. I think it has something to do with US, the human virus that threatens to contaminate the planet.

reply to post by FremenBlueEyes

we have the technology, im very sure of that,

you believe that we have achieved light speed technology ?

i don't know ...the shuttle sure does seem slow

you might be right about the open contact thing...

maybe since we got nuclear tech. they have been noticing more and if we did achieve intersteller travel they would be forced to be open with us.

[edit on 23-6-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
My theory is that we have already developed this technology, independent of extraterrestrial influences, and because of that we have been visited regularly since th inception of our creation.

So when do you suppose we developed this technology?

Because there have been sightings of UFOs for literally hundreds and perhaps even thousands of years. Certainly we've had well documented evidence and seen increase of activity since at least the 40s or 50s. So you think we've developed this warp speed technology 60+ years ago?

reply to post by danx


i believe that we achieved this tech. several years ago. i don't have a specific date but i do believe that this tech was thought up in the minds of tesla and einstein, as well as others, but put into action by others that came after and could look at tesla's ideas from a different angle.

i believe that 98% of what we call ufos today are our own.

i don't think that it is terribly hard to imagine that we developed this tech. as their are many technologies being developed that are kept from the publics eyes.

if we did develop this tech, why would the inventors feel the need to give the tech. to the regular populous?

what would we do with it?

i think it would only create confusion and misunderstanding in the average joe.

if i was in power and i had scientists that developed warp tech. i wouldn't feel the need to make it public.

also, in the 40's and 50's we were doing things like the philedelphia experiment. that has to do with bending space-time. that is pretty advanced and it also happened 60 + years ago.

who knows what we have now.

also, i believe the space shuttle to be something to distract the masses and isn't the apex of our technology.

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
i believe that we achieved this tech. several years ago. i don't have a specific date but i do believe that this tech was thought up in the minds of tesla and einstein,

A `warp drive' with more reasonable total energy requirements
Submitted on 21 May 1999
Van Den Broeck, C
Los Alamos National Labs

Crawling Toward Warp Drive
LANL
16 September 2004: A traveling-wave engine to power deep space travel,

"A University of California scientist working at Los Alamos National Laboratory and researchers from Northrop Grumman Space Technology have developed a novel method for generating electrical power for deep-space travel using sound waves. The traveling-wave thermoacoustic electric generator has the potential to power space probes to the furthest reaches of the Universe."

www.nasawatch.com...

Alcubierre Warp Drive Spacetime
www.zamandayolculuk.com...

“A ‘warp drive’ with more reasonable total energy requirements,”
Van Den Broeck, C
December 25, 1999
Los Alamos National Labs


Breaking the Speed Barrier:
Alternatives to Faster than Light Travel
physics.syr.edu...

That ought to keep you busy

Unfortunately the last time I linked directly to LANL archives on an even better paper involving NASA, they pulled it

reply to post by zorgon


rock on zorgon, thanks buddy!!!!!!!

it's always nice when someone else does the leg work for you!!!!!

just kidding brother.

its going to take me sometime to read all of that but i figured that it had been proposed.

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
i believe that 98% of what we call ufos today are our own.

80% (approx) are "CRITTERS" that exist in the infrared/ barely visible light spectrum... hence the reason NASA "UFO" films are using IR Cameras...

They 'feed' on plasma, hence their appearance near thunderstorms and the 'tether'

15% are ours like the TANARIS from UK



5% are the 'visitors'

Approximately naturally I don't have exact figures

Its interesting that the "Black Triangle" do not need Ailerons for steering... they use PLASMA... I wonder what else they are not telling us? Remember that when the Military tells the public something, they are already 20 years past that



www.thelivingmoon.com...

Photo taken from the shuttle...




[edit on 23-6-2008 by zorgon]

Actually, I find the concept of us (humans in general) developing faster than light (FTL) travel very hard to believe.
If Einstein's theory of reletivity is to be believed, and according to nearly all of our understandings of modern physics, the nature of energy and light and our concepts of demensions, FTL travel is equivelent to time travel, my friend. Furthermore, an object moving at FTL speeds would have infinite acceleration (meaning it could never stop), and would be smaller than any known partical (my theoratical physics are a little rusty... if anyone has more info to add or wishes to correct that which I have written, please do so).
Einstein concluded that achieving FTL travel was imposible, and would result in the paradox known as time travel (see above links)

"warp speed" may seem like mearly a matter of "getting things to go really fast," which is easier in space due to lack of friction, but then you have the concept of navagation... how would we be sure not to run into a star or a planet at these speeds when we don't even have our own galaxy maped (or the entiriety of our ocean floor for that matter)? How would we ensure the humans aboard a craft didn't liquify from the intense G-forces? What materials would we use to keep this craft from flying apart and melting? What would be the fuel/ propulsion source?

FTL travel results in a paradox, but simply getting things to go "really fast" is pretty impossible itself. We have the concepts. We have the ideas floating around universities and in labs across the world. It's just a matter of "we aren't there yet". Even concepts such as worm holes and gravity accelerators/ energy propulsion devices are a far cry from us exploring the cosmos, because we are only just begining to understand the nature of these forces that we hope to control.

If you want us to take you seriously, my friend, I have to ask for proof. It's easy to say that "we have this technology and are keeping it secret". Fremen, if you want me to believe you, I'm going to need more.

[edit on 23-6-2008 by kholdstare]

[edit on 23-6-2008 by kholdstare]

reply to post by kholdstare


einstein's theory of relativity, i believe, is rendered useless if his unified field theory was, well, unified.

no one has been able to do it, that we know of, but i think that this theory, UFT, is unified then it makes these unrealistic things more realistic.

Also, you have to think of this "warp speed" not linearly. What if it required the changing of space-time to travel great distances, thus not breaking his relativity theory.

as far as the proof goes, i guess i have none. I wasn't intending this to be a thread to "prove" anything, but rather, discuss things.
That is still allowed on ats, right mr 555?

[edit on C20082008-06-23T18:10:47-05:00u06America/Chicago6 by FremenBlueEyes]

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes
reply to post by kholdstare

 

as far as the proof goes, i guess i have none. I wasn't intending this to be a thread to "prove" anything, but rather, discuss things.
That is still allowed on ats, right mr 555?

Actually, I believe that is what the Skunk Works forum is for, my friend.

Also, I have not seen or read anything pertaining to UFT that would allow FTL travel. I think you would have better luck with String Theory and moving through worm holes in terms of furthering your argument.

In regards to non-linear space travel, It is a great concept (and a great argument). I personally believe that if we are to ever achieve travel over extreme distances at extreme speeds it will come from "warping" our enviornment, but currently, things of this sort are relegated to science fiction, which is unfortunate, but again it is because it deals with forces we can barely conceptualize, let alone act upon and harness

[edit on 23-6-2008 by kholdstare]

reply to post by kholdstare


well, i guess we just have a difference in opinion as to what reality can allow.
again, i am not claiming this as fact, just a possibility, skunk works is for people claiming fact without any evidence.

My understanding of General Relativity is that it indicates nothing can travel faster than lightspeed, however, that doesn't negate "folding" spacetime in such a way as to shorten the travel a gigafold or more. Perhaps by exploiting the event horizon on massive bodies such a black holes? Who knows.

Good food for thought. Astroburgers for all.

I believe that we have indeed achieved this 'warp' technology a long time ago.

Don't forget about our ancestors, we still can't re-create their accuracy in building pyramids with the tools they had at the time, or for instance the immense understandings of the skies whereby certain structures create some type of an electromagnetic atmosphere where 'the dots connect' (ie: Bermuda triangle? the most famous one)

Whether we truly understand what is at hand in terms of 'warp' technology I am not so sure of that, but one thing I do know: We humans will try the impossible to create something that we not only comprehend to the fullest but we ignore the outcome of such technology due to our fascination of being better than what we think we are.

I hope that Aliens are beings that will help us humans shape our world to become what they (aliens) would like us to become and not what WE want this world to become.

Good post

I'm not convinced that " WARP " drive tech will bring them home, so to speak.

I'm still not convinced on the whole faster than light speed tech is a reality any time soon for poor ole Earth!

With the whole " matter, Anti matter deal ' more likely the worm hole prospect may be a better solution for great distance of travel in deep space.

This could be the reason why they seem to just POP in! they may be slipping in and out of a artificially created worm hole.

wormhole


Hawkins

Maybe Hawkins and Einstein were one of them

reply to post by SLAYER69


i agree with you, about the wormhole.
In my mind though it is distance traveled that decides speed, whether you bend space-time or not. if you are driving to point b from point a there is still a distance traveled.
so if you bend space-time at point a and maybe travel only enough distance to go through the portal, you still end up at point b.
so if that distance is 6000 light years and you make it there in a second, then you have traveled 6000 light years in a second. therefore superseding the speed of light.

dig?


edit to say " Slayer rocks!!!!"

[edit on C20082008-06-23T20:34:23-05:00u06America/Chicago6 by FremenBlueEyes]

Originally posted by FremenBlueEyes

dig?


edit to say " Slayer rocks!!!!"

Yeah I dig but now you are talking quantum physics, Which is a far cry from creating Extremely powerful propulsion to over power the speed barrier

[edit on 23-6-2008 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


isn't a time-space bending drive an "extremely powerful propulsion system"?
it's all in how you relate to propulsion.

Originally posted by kholdstare
Actually, I find the concept of us (humans in general) developing faster than light (FTL) travel very hard to believe.

Warp Drive doesn't use FLT drive... it 'warps space'

If Einstein's theory of reletivity is to be believed, and according to nearly all of our understandings of modern physics, the nature of energy and light and our concepts of demensions,

Einstein? Oh yeah that guy... look up Tachyons

FTL travel is equivelent to time travel, my friend.

Have you seen Project Looking Glass from Los Alamos?

Abstract:

Imagine a mirror that reflects more light than was incident, that reflects a beam into the same direction regardless of the mirror's tilt, that eliminates
image distortions by causing light rays to retrace their paths as if running
backward in time, and that when looked at allows the observer to see absolutely nothing.

Science fiction, you say? Well, such mirrors have been the subject of intense investigation both here at Los Alamos and at other research laboratories around the world. Not only do they exist, but their practical applications may be far-reaching.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And just wait till they Open the Alice Portal at CERN

Einstein concluded that achieving FTL travel was imposible, and would result in the paradox known as time travel

Hehe no paradox... you simply start new time lines...

The Late Great Arthur C. Clarke formulated the following three "laws" of prediction:

1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
3. Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

"warp speed" may seem like mearly a matter of "getting things to go really fast," which is easier in space due to lack of friction, but then you have the concept of navagation...

Okay lets try this again... Warp Drive is NOT faster than light... it only appears that way to an outside observer...

The Alcubierre metric, also known as the Alcubierre drive or Warp Drive, is a speculative mathematical model of a spacetime exhibiting features reminiscent of the fictional "warp drive" from Star Trek, which can travel "Faster-than-light" (although not in a local sense - see below).

In 1994, the Mexican physicist Miguel Alcubierre proposed a method of stretching space in a wave which would in theory cause the fabric of space ahead of a spacecraft to contract and the space behind it to expand.[1] The ship would ride this wave inside a region known as a warp bubble of flat space. Since the ship is not moving within this bubble, but carried along as the region itself moves, conventional relativistic effects such as time dilation do not apply in the way they would in the case of a ship moving at high velocity through flat spacetime. Also, this method of travel does not actually involve moving faster than light in a local sense, since a light beam within the bubble would still always move faster than the ship; it is only "faster than light" in the sense that, thanks to the contraction of the space in front of it, the ship could reach its destination faster than a light beam restricted to travelling outside the warp bubble. Thus, the Alcubierre drive does not contradict the conventional claim that relativity forbids a slower-than-light object to accelerate to faster-than-light speeds.

Wikipedia

A simple example draw two dots on a piece of paper at opposite ends... fold the paper until the dots touch... simply step through the paper and unfold it... you have just traveled that distance with almost no speed at all...

Folding space works the same way... just needs a tad more energy

how would we be sure not to run into a star or a planet at these speeds when we don't even have our own galaxy maped (or the entiriety of our ocean floor for that matter)?

While in 'hyperspace' you would not run into anything... you would only need to be sure you 'exit' in a clear space... and that is not that hard to do

How would we ensure the humans aboard a craft didn't liquify from the intense G-forces? What materials would we use to keep this craft from flying apart and melting?

Force field or 'shield' around the ship... I don't have time to go into this in detail but I can... funny though they never use seat belts on Star Trek and there 'system' seems to pick random times to slam them around the deck... I guess thats for 'dramatic effect.

What would be the fuel/ propulsion source?

HE3 Fusion
Levitated Dipole Fusion Confinement Concept
MIT Plasma Science & Fusion Center




That will work in the short term... but we will need anti matter... Star Trek uses Di-lithium crystals... while Lithium has awesome properties I have not heard that we have those yet...

However Bob Lazar told us years ago that Area 51 had reversed engineered saucer drives using Ununpentium... everyone said he was nuts... it doesn't exist...

Well "Lo and Behold" Modern science catches up with what he says...
en.wikipedia.org...

Seems it does exist after all and we have started making it... So if he was right about that... hehehe

Even concepts such as worm holes and gravity accelerators/ energy propulsion devices are a far cry from us exploring the cosmos, because we are only just begining to understand the nature of these forces that we hope to control.

The reason we are at 'war' in Iraq is to secure Ancient Technology... including a Star Gate

Actually 'we' understand a lot more than you think... but you need to learn to 'read between the lines' and talk to people

It's easy to say that "we have this technology and are keeping it secret"

It's easier for you to demand proof when the mere possession of that proof of top secret projects will get you a vacation at Guantanamo

Let me explain to you how this works...

Researchers like me look for clues, circumstantial evidence and spend hours a day following small leads and poring through publicly available documents on government and military sites.

All we can legally do is show what is already out there... but in the end all it can do is give a true seeker of truth a guide or road map to where to look and find out himself...

If you look at my website and check my threads there are hundreds of 'proofs' I have linked to... some at .mil sites that are not even accessible by those outside the USA (as I found out)

But I am going to give you a little test... I want you to read this document... and tell me what you find in it... It is small a simple one page abstract of a full report... but I use it to see who REALLY wants to know what is going on... Read it carefully

When you read it email me your observations (as U2U are down right now) DO NOT post it in the thread... so others can do so as well....

It is a test to see how closely one pays attention to the 'truth' 'hidden in plane sight'

www.thelivingmoon.com...

my email is

[email protected]

Enjoy



[edit on 23-6-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon

The reason we are at 'war' in Iraq is to secure Ancient Technology... including a Star Gate

hey zorgon , excellent post as usual but this set off a few red lights for me

can you elaborate on that statement ? as in evidence ?