Terra Papers - I was there

reply to post by kshaund


i think you're dodging with semantics now, and that's beneath you as a researcher. what separates a dog wanting to rest on his pillow vs. you wanting to go to the beach?

Originally posted by kshaund Bird tribes, don't know if that's et's in ships or literally bird type beings.

I've heard others talk of the Elders or the Watchers when referring to (benevolent) for lack of better term beings who are there for us in some way, maybe at death, maybe if we jump the reincarnation cycle. To me they're maybe the 'other' part of our soul we're trying to return to.

I`ve added the shining ones, elohim and wingmakers to that list. As you say, perhaps we`ve been cut off from the other half so to speak.

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by kshaund

 

i think you're dodging with semantics now, and that's beneath you as a researcher. what separates a dog wanting to rest on his pillow vs. you wanting to go to the beach?

My cat is smart - but that doesn't mean he decides what he's going to do tomorrow to be creative.

Not sure how its beneath a researcher to try and define definitions of words used as a discussion. And in the end, it's my belief and not something I'm trying to convince you of anyway, though it seems you might be trying to convince me of something else.

reply to post by kshaund


well i'm just sharing my opinion, aren't you?
we have 2 dogs. a collie and a westie (west highland white terrier).
the westie is male. the collie is female.
they had a conversation (i kid you not), one day.
the westie was on the back porch and the collie was in the house, looking at the westie out the back door, which was open. the westie was looking at the collie. and they stayed that way for what seems like at least a whole minute. just looking at each other through the open door. i swear i could almost hear the westie telling the collie to

"COME OUTSIDE AND PLAY! LET'S GO BABE-ALICIOUS!" (he has a napoleon complex) and the collie was like

"nah, i'm tired. you go on, i'll be in the other room."

"BUT IT'LL BE FUN! AND WE CAN CHASE BUGS!"

"no, no, really, i need to rest. you go ahead."

"AWW, COME ON. YOU'RE NO FUN!!!"



[edit on 27-4-2009 by undo]

I've seen my cat 'reason' to get around a sprinkler and read about brilliant animals - I just don't equate awareness with soul automatically - and that doesn't mean an animal couldn't have a soul, I just don't believe every animal and person has a 'soul' (i.e. passion, spontaneity, creativity, etc.) as automatic or as a given. Do the reptilians have a 'soul'? I'd guess "not" based on what I think a soul is and what they are (murderous and ego centered) - souls are light, not heavy - souls create, not destroy. I don't buy the karma stuff - it lets off the perpetrators and makes the victims responsible for all their crimes.

reply to post by kshaund


it's funny how that works. like the idea that we could possibly understand someone else's motives for doing something. we dunno. we didn't live their lives or walk in their shoes. so the best we can hope for is a guess based on our own experience. that sometimes leaves alot to be desired. as a result, i think yeshua (jesus) explains it in an understandable way: judge not, lest ye be judged. let me give you an example:

john doe from timbucktoo, enjoys sparring in martial arts. he's training to be a buddhist monk. the monks often challenge one another to hone their skills.

along comes a person raised on the ideal that physical violence of any kind is bad. he sees john doe and the other monks sparring, and thinks they are violent, evil people. later, he goes to his own house and practices yoga, to hone his skills. when he finishes, he turns on the tv, and sees an archer, practicing archery, in training for a bow and arrow deer hunt. when he hears this he is horrified. the deer might be someone's cousin, reincarnated. he writes a lengthy letter to the tv studio to lodge a formal complaint. the studio gives the letter to the archer from the tv show. the archer is a native american and thinks the guy who sent the letter must not understand that he asks the deers for their meat and skin before he shoots them.

this goes on and on. what one person thinks is a crime and a horror, another thinks is justifiable for or by any number of reasons. i think you get the picture?





[edit on 27-4-2009 by undo]

p.s. i struggle with that, all the time, btw. i have to figure out, inside my own head and heart, what i have any right to talk about on such topics. for example, jesus mentions that he doesn't even bring a railing accusation against satan, primarily because he knows the law and doesn't want to be subjected to reciprocal judgment. later, we see him railing against satan. lol i read the biblical texts and see a mish mash of judgment and warnings not to judge, all tossed into the same pot and mixed around. it's really quite confusing. so i had to pick a position to take and try to stick with it. doesn't always work. i'm a work in progress.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
well who is Enki? Didn't he teach us "knowing"? Didn't he make our flesh bodies? Now think about what Jesus says about the flesh body: It's constantly at war with your spirit... one is temporary (flesh body) and the other is eternal (spirit body). So if Enki created the flesh body, what was the purpose? According to their texts, it was for enslavement. The other anunnaki didn't want to work, it says. So they asked him to solve the problem, and we were his solution: self-replicating slaves. who else would have a reason to reboot the hardware?

Yes, and thus the real microcosmic significance of the war between God and the Devil. Enki creates Adam, and he is Adam—the first Adam, of clay. This is Ioannes the Baptist, Oannes. And this is echoed again by the quite eclectic Christian Zosimos:

16. Yea, unto the consummation of the cosmos will He come secretly,—nay, openly associating with His own,—counselling them secretly, yea through their minds, to settle their account with their Adam, the blind accuser, 1 in rivalry with the spiritual man of light.
...
But they, becoming wiser from contemplation of Him who is truly Son of God, give unto him 1 his own Adam for death, 2 rescuing their own light spirits for [return to] their own regions where they were even before the cosmos [existed]. . . .

And see Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, about "the first man Adam" and "the last Adam".

What I have found interesting is that Cyrus the Great, the grandfather of Xerxes, was the first man to be acknolwedged by the Jews as the Messiah. I took some time away from this thread to read through Herodotus, and there are so many things about his account of the Peloponnesian War that are blatantly wrong (much to the chagrin of historians) that I did some poking around to see what he might be getting at, and I found the absolutely bizarre rantings of a guy named Lars Wilson. But as this is a thread about space aliens in the UFO forum and the rewriting of history, this is what he claims:

• Xerxes (Enki?) faked his own death and became Artaxerxes.
  
• The Peloponnesian War actually occurred 30 years later than traditional chronology.
  
• The actual purpose of the was to destroy all extant Greek historical records.
  
• Herodotus, more appropriately known as the "Father of Lies," was charged with writing a revisionist fable to cover up the actual history of the war.
  
• Plato, Aristotle, Xenophon, etc., were all paid agents of the Persian empire charged with likewise distorting history to fit the new timeline. And in the process they just so happened to lay the foundations of western civilization.

On a related note, have you read Diodorus Siculus?

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Eleleth]

reply to post by Eleleth


hold up there! are you saying enki was adam and john the baptist? and i don't think i have read diodorus siculus, but i remember hearing that name.....i think it was from an interview i did with michael s. heiser

i have a research site, where i use to stick all the reference materials i was using for my studies. i have the following classical pieces

- Eusebius
Eusebius: Church History

- Homer
Homer: The Iliad
Homer: Odyssey

- Herodotus
Herodotus: The Histories

- Josephus
Josephus: Antiquities
Josephus: Wars

- Philo
Philo: Resource Pages on Philo of Alexandria

- Tacitus
Tacitus: The Annals
Tacitus: The Histories
Tacitus: Germania
Tacitus: Agricola

- Virgil
Virgil: Aeneid

- Xenophon
Xenophon Anabasis

Pseudopigraphia
* Book of Enoch,
* Book of Jasher,
* Book of Giants,
* Book of Jubilees,
* The War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness,
* Dead Sea Scrolls,
* The Forgotten Books of Eden

Other Data sources
# Creation Myths
# Digital Dante
# Flying Serpents and Dragons
# Genesis 6 Giants
# Tibetan Book of the Dead
# The Urantia Book

and *get ready for this*
the bible

-King James with Strong's Concordance,
-King James Sacred Name,
-Albanian Bible,
-American Standard Bible,
-Bible in Basic English,
-Bulgarian Bible,
-Cebuano Bible,
-Chinese Union (Big 5) Bible,
-Chinese Union (GB Encoding) Bible,
-Croatian Bible,
-Darby's English Translation Bible,
-Douay Rheims Bible,
-Dutch StatenVertalings Bible 1715 ,
-Dutch Staten Vertalings Bible 1715 ,
-Finnish Bible,
-French Bible (Louis Segond) ,
-Gaelic (Manx) Bible,
-Gaelic (Scots) Bible,
-German Bible (Luther Elberfelder Bibel) ,
-Parallel Greek New Testament,
-Haitian Creole Bible ,
-Hebrew Old Testament Bible,
-Hungarian Bible,
-King James Large Print Bible,
-King James Bible Apocrypha,
-Korean Bible,
-Jerome's Latin Vulgate (405 A.D.),
-Latvian New Testament Bible,
-Maori Bible,
-Modern Greek Bible,
-Norwegian Bible,
-Rumanian Bible,
-Russian Bible KO18-R Encoding,
-Russian Bible Windows 1251 Encoding,
-Spanish Bible (La Biblia Reina Valera) ,
-Swahili New Testament Bible,
-Swedish Bible 1917 ,
-Tagalog (John and James) Bible,
-Thai Bible King James Version,
-Ukrainian Bible,
-Uma New Testament Bible ,
-Vietnamese Bible VNI-Times Encoding ,
-Vietnamese Bible UTF-8 Encoding ,
-World English Bible ,
-Noah Webster Version (1833),
-Weymouth New Testament in Modern Speech (1913) ,
-Youngs Literal Translation

and of course, whole sections on each of the ancient cultures from that time frame

- Aborigine
- Akkadians
- Amorites
- Assyrians
- Babylonians
- Chaldeans
- Chinese
- Egyptians
- Hittites
- Hindu
- Inca
- Japanese
- Kassites
- Mayans
- Native Americans
- Nubians
- Persians
- Semites
- Sumerians

for example, under egyptians i have more related texts, languages, and so on:

# Ra and the Serpent,
# Ancient Egyptian Texts,
# The Pyramid Texts,
# The Book of the Dead,
# The Book of the Opening of the Mouth,
# The Wisdom of the Egyptians

and a separate section specifically for ancient structures, translators and dictionaries.


yes, i admit, i'm a nerd

[edit on 28-4-2009 by undo]

(addendum: this should be attached to my big post above.

Sumerian Reading Room
www.thestargates.com...

oh and the text that sitchin formed his theory on that tiamat was a planet. lol where oh where is this idea coming from? The text simply does not indicate that in any way shape or form

Enuma Elish
www.thestargates.com...

something fun:

your name in persian cuneiform
www.thestargates.com...

your name in egyptian hieroglyphics
www.thestargates.com...

[edit on 28-4-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
p.s. i struggle with that, all the time, btw. i have to figure out, inside my own head and heart, what i have any right to talk about on such topics. for example, jesus mentions that he doesn't even bring a railing accusation against satan, primarily because he knows the law and doesn't want to be subjected to reciprocal judgment. later, we see him railing against satan. lol i read the biblical texts and see a mish mash of judgment and warnings not to judge, all tossed into the same pot and mixed around. it's really quite confusing. so i had to pick a position to take and try to stick with it. doesn't always work. i'm a work in progress.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by undo]

Well said! I totally agree it's all quite confusing. Picking a position is a good way to see if it holds for sure. You do very well with it

reply to post by undo


Wow, do you actually have hard copies of all these bibles??? I've always said I wouldn't bother getting through a modern version of the bible because I don't trust content translated over time - but I would read a direct translation from the oldest ones possible --- do any of those bibles you listed qualify in that way?

Do you have the Apocrypha series (Book of Mary, etc.)? Those are also very interesting, kind of get more into the mystical side as I recall, but it's been a few years... I don't have them, I had read sections of them a dozen years ago.

Not sure what the difference is between a nerd and a scholar - in your case I'd say no difference at all...

reply to post by kshaund


no no, not hard copies. they are all on my "secrets of sumer" site, or linked from it.

the latin vulgate
www.speedbible.com... (circa 405 AD)

hebrew old testament
www.speakingbible.com...

parallel greek new testament
www.greeknewtestament.com...

this one is the best though, for research. it has all kinds of useful info
notice the little drop down box next to each verse, that gives you the option to see it with the strong's concordance (which is REALLY an awesome resource for original language of the words in the verses), you can also view it in sacred name version, which does things like show you what the original names of god(s) were in the verses. etc.
www.htmlbible.com...

apocrypha
www.htmlbible.com...

EDIT: CLICK THIS and notice the words in blue... this is the fun part.. click the blue word.. .there ya go, hard core research ---->>>www.htmlbible.com...



[edit on 28-4-2009 by undo]

Ah, thanks :-) We used a bible concordance years back, was very interesting how in the bible the word love is there only once or twice, but the word fear is there a few dozen times.

Either you're way back east or an early morning person like me!

reply to post by kshaund


8:45 am
there are several words that mean or approximate the meaning of love. several kinds of love, also. love for god. love for your family and friends. love for your enemies. etc

eek check this out!
www.hebrewoldtestament.com...
now THAT is awesome!

Originally posted by undo
reply to post by Eleleth

 

hold up there! are you saying enki was adam and john the baptist?

Apparently so. Oannes is identified with Adapa/Adam. www.newadvent.org...

The Assyrians, however, say that fish-eating Oannes was (the first man, and) produced among themselves. The Chaldeans, however, say that this Adam is the man whom alone earth brought forth.

So how can the "first man" also be the instructor of humanity? This is a bit of a riddle that I've been thinking about for a while:

Now it happened that in the first year, in the confines of Babylonia, there emerged from the Red Sea an awesome creature which was named Oannes. As Apollodorus relates in his book, [this being] had the complete body of a fish. Yet by the fish's head was another appropriate [human] head, and by the tail were [a pair of] human feet, and it could speak human language [g20]. A picture/likeness of [Oannes] has been preserved to this day. He further states that this creature kept company with humans during the day, completely abstaining from any kind of food, instructing people in letters and the techniques of different arts [including] city and temple [building], knowledge of laws, the nature of weights and measures, how to collect seeds and fruits; indeed, he taught humankind everything necessary for domestic life on earth. From that time on no one [individual] has discovered more. Now when the sun went down, the Oannes creature once again returned to the sea, remaining until morning in the vast expanse of the waters. Thus it lived the life of an amphibian [g21]. Subsequently other similar creatures came forth, as the book of the kings makes clear. Furthermore it is said that Oannes wrote about deeds and virtues, giving humankind words and wisdom.

This is from Eusebius' Chronicle, which has an interesting little sentence in the introduction:

Beyond its value for historians, anthropologists, and linguists, the Chronicle presents hitherto unexplored material regarding the possible role of extraterrestrial beings in the creation and development of human civilization.

and i don't think i have read diodorus siculus, but i remember hearing that name.....i think it was from an interview i did with michael s. heiser

I'm reading through him now—you might like him, since he was very into the idea of making the gods into real, historical people (i.e., a Euhemerist). You can find the text of Diodorus here, along with a lot of other Greco-Roman historical texts. His account of Egyptian mythology is pretty much useless, though, since for the myth of Osiris, he just took the myth of Dionysus and changed the names! I get the feeling that a lot of these Greek historians deliberately inserted errors just to confuse the Uninitiated (that's us).

looks to me as if the assyrians were guessing. perhaps they connected the lore of RA with EA, as I have, and assumed the self-begotten concept applied to EA as well (EA is Oannes). then somehow concluded this first self-created "god" was Adam. i don't see the connection between adapa with oannes, other than being created by him. assyrian culture was post black sea flood. sumer was still buried under eight foot of flood silt, at the time, so most of what they would have at their disposal would be referenced off texts like the enuma elish (which is the craziest text i've seen to date) or egyptian dynastic texts.

otherwise, that's a total head scratcher. where did they get the idea that oannes was adapa?

whoa, he thought Osiris was Dionysus? i gotta look that one up! now i can see where some masons get the idea that a returning Osiris would be the equivalent of a returning Christ, since Dionysus is often thought to be an archetype of the Christ of the new testament. it also hints there is a relationship between the ideas in revelation 9, which speaks of apollyon the destroyer (who is Apollo, as the god of plagues (one of his many roles)). and who is the mirror opposite of mr. Apollo, the orderly tyrant? why of course, it's the chaotic freedom lover, Dionysus. however, i think it's more complex than that. love and freedom doesn't automatically create chaos. methinks they were grasping at symbols too much, too often.



[edit on 28-4-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
otherwise, that's a total head scratcher. where did they get the idea that oannes was adapa?

Wikipedia makes the connection, too. Berossus also states that Oannes specifically gave them the Enuma Elish.

Adapa or Adamu son of Ea (according to Sayce) was a Sumerian and Babylonian mythical figure who accidentally rejected the gift of immortality. The story is first attested in the Kassite period (14th century BC).
...
He is also merged with the Kassite-period apkal U-an, who is most familiar though Berossus' recounting of the myth of Oannes.

In the Greek myth, Prometheus councils Epimetheus not to take the gift of Zeus, but he does it anyways. So you've got the same theme with slightly different events.

Originally posted by undo
whoa, he thought Osiris was Dionysus? i gotta look that one up! now i can see where some masons get the idea that a returning Osiris would be the equivalent of a returning Christ, since Dionysus is often thought to be an archetype of the Christ of the new testament. it also hints there is a relationship between the ideas in revelation 9, which speaks of apollyon the destroyer (who is Apollo, as the god of plagues (one of his many roles)). and who is the mirror opposite of mr. Apollo, the orderly tyrant? why of course, it's the chaotic freedom lover, Dionysus. however, i think it's more complex than that. love and freedom doesn't automatically create chaos. methinks they were grasping at symbols too much, too often.

If you didn't know that Osiris is Dionysys, you haven't been paying attention! Herodotus mentions it, and a good number of Greek authors after him, including Plutarch, do as well.

In the Homeric Hymn to Dionysys:

I will tell of Dionysus, the son of glorious Semele, how he appeared on a jutting headland by the shore of the fruitless sea, seeming like a stripling in the first flush of manhood: his rich, dark hair was waving about him, and on his strong shoulders he wore a purple robe. Presently there came swiftly over the sparkling sea Tyrsenian 2530 pirates on a well-decked ship—a miserable doom led them on. When they saw him they made signs to one another and sprang out quickly, and seizing him straightway, put him on board their ship exultingly; for they thought him the son of heaven-nurtured kings. They sought to bind him with rude bonds, but the bonds would not hold him, and the withes fell far away from his hands and feet: and he sat with a smile in his dark eyes.

Compare this to the scene with Dumuzi sitting on the throne and wearing a robe before being seized. In the Akkadian version, Charlie Penglase in Greek Myths and Mesopotamia specifies that "Ereshkigal also ordered that Dumuzi should be washed and anointed, and clothed in a red garment." This is not a coincidence! These are all symbols of the Mysteries, instituted in Greece, some say, by the legendary Orpheus.

And Dionysus is indeed an archetypal Christ, as even our dear Justin Martyr was willing to concede:

For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter's] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine [2207] into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses?

And you do well to think "it's more complex than that." As Olympiodorus indicates:

“It is necessary, first of all, for the soul to place a likeness of herself in the body. This is to ensoul the body. Secondly, it is necessary for her to sympathize with the image, as being of like idea. For every external form or substance is wrought into an identity with its interior substance, through an ingenerated tendency thereto. In the third place, being situated in a divided nature, it is necessary that she should be torn in pieces, and fall into a last separation, till, through the action of a life of purification, she shall raise herself from the dispersion, loose the bond of sympathy, and act as of herself without the external image, having become established according to the first-created life. The like things are fabled in the example. For Dionysus or Bacchus because his image was formed in a mirror, pursued it, and thus became distributed into everything. But Apollo collected him and brought him up; being a deity of purification, and the true savior of Dionysus; and on this account he is styled in the sacred hymns, Dionusites.”

[edit on 28-4-2009 by Eleleth]