What to watch for at Jeddah’s oil summit

They are buying America just like every other developing nations has been doing for years, just to own America.

Very soon we American citizens will have nothing that we can call our own.

What better way to control a nation but applying the same corrupted concept that corporate America is using to control our government.

Our congress is open for business but not for the business of America but to sell themselves out to the highest bidder and that is no limited to America lobbyist, about every country that have bought a piece of America is lobbying and buying politicians in Washington.

Foreign Ownership of US Domestic Industries

www.economyincrisis.org...

BTW Saudis only are the third country that sells oil to us, first is Canada, second Mexico and fourth Venezuela so to be able to drop a nuclear bomb in the markets, Canada and Mexico will have to agree to it too or be forced to follow the Saudis.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by marg6043]

Originally posted by marg6043
www.economyincrisis.org...

BTW Saudis only are the third country that sells oil to us, first is Canada, second Mexico and fourth Venezuela so to be able to drop a nuclear bomb in the markets, Canada and Mexico will have to agree to it too or be forced to follow the Saudis.


[edit on 20-6-2008 by marg6043]

That is not true at all, yes Canada and Mexico are out largest suppliers, but futures markets are set by global demand, not just U.S. demand. If the Saudi's undercut the market, the futures market will fall. Mexico and Canada aren't involved in OPEC anyhow.

Originally posted by yellowcard

But you are completely ignoring the bond market's power over the forex...if people dumped U.S. treasuries the Yields would sore and become more attractive to investors...it would kill the debt market but the dollar's strength would probably be better of in the long run, because higher yields would force Congress to make budget cuts, money would no longer be easy [easy credit] (which is the main reason the dollar is so weak). Another reason the dollar is trash now is because the Fed Funds rate is below the inflation rate, a sell off of t-notes would force yields well above the inflation rate. In actual printed money, we have hardly printed any, it's our debt which is out of control..but if it pays a high yield people will want to hold it and obviously tighter credit, is a tighter money supply = stronger dollar [it would actually be more like a deflationary spiral].

Not ignoring the bond market I just feel that you take to much trust in the government to cut spending if a mass sell off was to happen. They would print money they wouldnt cut spending. Has the government ever cut spending especially at a time of war (or fake war)? I disagree with you on not much money is being printed also because according to M3 numbers the dollar supply is out the roof now compliments of the big government doing some big spending. In a perfect world I agree with you but I am a believer that some of these countries are losing faith in us as a country when there a lot more lucrative deals to be had over seas. Sad but true.

Originally posted by yellowcard


You're right, it's not guaranteed success, it's an incentive to support our markets. Why would you dump an asset that is going to destory your own assets? You won't...we could collapse, but we now live in a world market, and the likelihood of a collapse is slim in the terms that Rome collapsed. We could have an economic collapse, but the market works and the world has an incentive to see that everything is going steady to support their own societies.

No you wouldnt but like I said in another post that America isnt the cream of the crop as much as it used to be. There is money to be made in other places. I personally do all my investing in America but thats the patriot over dollar in me. Another thing you dont consider in financial warfare which I think will be used in the future and I think right now we would be hardpressed to win any financial wars right now.

Originally posted by mybigunitaccording to M3 numbers the dollar supply is out the roof now compliments of the big government doing some big spending.

That is not actual printed money, that is debt held in bonds.

They would have to cut spending, and so would all Americans, if credit was so tight. High bond yields = tight credit market = less money available in the market. That's why when yields rise, so does the dollar's strength, currently the Fed has (again just like Greenspan) undercut the market and has the Fed Funds rate below the inflation rate which is murdering the dollar. When you couple that with a retarded Congress, you have trouble...but reality hits fast when you have a tight credit market.

reply to post by yellowcard


OPEC are not the only ones setting the prices of oil.

Does OPEC Set Crude Oil Prices?

One of the most common misconceptions about OPEC is that the Organization is responsible for setting crude oil prices. Although OPEC did in fact set crude oil prices from the early 1970s to the mid-1980s, this is no longer the case.

In today's complex global markets, the price of crude oil is set by movements on the three major international petroleum exchanges, all of which have their own Web sites featuring information about oil prices. They are the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX, www.nymex.com...), the International Petroleum Exchange in London (IPE, www.ipe.uk.com...) and the Singapore International Monetary Exchange (SIMEX, www.simex.com.sg...).


The Web sites of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA, www.iea.org...) and the US Energy Information Administration (EIA, www.eia.doe.gov...), also have extensive historical information on oil prices.

www.opec.org...

Originally posted by yellowcard


That is not actual printed money, that is debt held in bonds.

They would have to cut spending, and so would all Americans, if credit was so tight. High bond yields = tight credit market = less money available in the market. That's why when yields rise, so does the dollar's strength, currently the Fed has (again just like Greenspan) undercut the market and has the Fed Funds rate below the inflation rate which is murdering the dollar. When you couple that with a retarded Congress, you have trouble...but reality hits fast when you have a tight credit market.

I actually meant to say M0 I usually say M3 to reference most other points sorry was on auto pilot. But the M1 has gone up a decent amount...not like M3 however. But M3 is still a good indicator because even though its not money printed its still money created digitally and that is not good.

Oh the Americans would have to cut spending no doubt because we do not have the ability to print money like our government has. Im familiar with how the bond market works I will admit though it is not my strong point but i do know enough to hurt myself. then you add the retarded congress like when they just passed the 180 billion dollar supplimental package even though Bush asked for $107 billion.



[edit on 20-6-2008 by mybigunit]

Originally posted by mybigunitNo you wouldnt but like I said in another post that America isnt the cream of the crop as much as it used to be. There is money to be made in other places. I personally do all my investing in America but thats the patriot over dollar in me. Another thing you dont consider in financial warfare which I think will be used in the future and I think right now we would be hardpressed to win any financial wars right now.

It isn't the "cream" of the crop, but we make up more than 25% of world GDP...if we catch a cold...everyone else gets pneumonia. We still have at least 100 years left of this, but I agree time is running out...but we can remain a global capital power house if we have the right people in charge. I don't think the U.S. faces collapse unless it breaks into a civil war, but with dependency on both government and foreign nations...and that goes both ways. America will likely exits for a while still, and our economy will likely be in relative good shape. I actually think America is setting up for an economic boom soon, if the cards fall correctly...and I think they just might.

Originally posted by yellowcard
I actually think America is setting up for an economic boom soon, if the cards fall correctly...and I think they just might.

Hence my comments about the banks. Its obvious the crap the propaganda machine spouts on TV about banks being broke and going bankrupt but yet when you drive down the road (especially here in Florida) you see a bank going up on EVERY corner. This tells me within the next year they are going to release all of this money they have been sitting on that they have borrowed from the FED and soverign wealth funds and what not. Invest in banks youll be happy 3 to 5 years down the road.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by yellowcard

 

OPEC are not the only ones setting the prices of oil.

Does OPEC Set Crude Oil Prices?

One of the most common misconceptions about OPEC is that the Organization is responsible for setting crude oil prices. Although OPEC did in fact set crude oil prices from the early 1970s to the mid-1980s, this is no longer the case.

In today's complex global markets, the price of crude oil is set by movements on the three major international petroleum exchanges, all of which have their own Web sites featuring information about oil prices. They are the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX, www.nymex.com...), the International Petroleum Exchange in London (IPE, www.ipe.uk.com...) and the Singapore International Monetary Exchange (SIMEX, www.simex.com.sg...).


The Web sites of the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA, www.iea.org...) and the US Energy Information Administration (EIA, www.eia.doe.gov...), also have extensive historical information on oil prices.

www.opec.org...

I never said they were, I actually think OPEC's power is over stated, but I think you are failing to see that we are in a global crude market...which is my point. It doesn't matter if we get most of our oil from Mexico and Canada, because future prices are based on global demand/supply...not just what the U.S. gets.

Originally posted by yellowcard

Originally posted by marg6043
www.economyincrisis.org...

That is not true at all, yes Canada and Mexico are out largest suppliers, but futures markets are set by global demand, not just U.S. demand. If the Saudi's undercut the market, the futures market will fall. Mexico and Canada aren't involved in OPEC anyhow.

That is not true. The futures markets are controlled by gamblers and speculators. over 95% of all contracts are purchased by those who will not take delivery. So 95% of the supply and demand equation is artificial. If the market was set only by those who actually take delivery, then you could say that prices are set much more by actual supply and demand. As long as the federal goverment, the federal reserve and wall street intrevene, pure supply and demand is just an archaic economic theory. As it is now almost all supply and demand dynamics are directly influenced by the parties above. This causes bubble like conditions and then a big bust when the party is over. Over night we will go from huge supply deficits to huge supply surpluses and oil will be back to the $75 range. It happens everytime with everything. But people never learn and are bound to take a huge haircut when it all blows once again.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


Exactly is not about been short of oil or that we are demanding more actually statistics show that US consumers has cut off gas spending since the prices has been driven up.

Is more than meets the eye with what is going on with the oil prices, even our enemy Iran is telling America that manipulation is what is behind the hype.

Yes, the Bush clan that is so friendly to the Saud house can get the Saudis to work a miracle but we don't know what the stakes are, but then again this will be a gesture to help the GOP with the coming elections, if McCain doesn't make it to the white house guess what oil will go back to what it is now or worst.

Is all a big ugly manipulation and many factors are involved.

reply to post by mybigunit


You are right banks are sitting on all that money the fed gave them to bail them out.

But we already know how greedy our corrupted banking system is, so do not expect much in return if the dollar keeps falling for years.

Also remember the outrageous salaries that the banking CEOs make.

All that bail out is not to benefit the people at all.

Another thing behind the major major power houses in America is money from foreign investments, Saudi, China, India and many others.



[edit on 20-6-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


And if we are to believe the author of "Confessions of an Economic Hitman", the price of oil is heavily manipulated by the futures traders. Folks like Lindsey Williams predicted in advance $5 per gallon of gas and claim the gas price spike is being done on purpose. They want to crash the American economy.

www.reformation.org...

reply to post by SevenThunders


Exactly many predict that the gas prices will reach the 5 dollar mark by the 4 of July.

reply to post by mybigunit

Your extremist theory makes no sense...They hated us for our freedoms long before we were ever in their land.

having recently lived and worked in saudi arabia and mixed extensively with the people there, i'd have to say that the economic scenario mentioned and the general idea that saudis (and the other folks who live there on a long term basis - pakistanis, jordanians etc) are enemies of the west, is highly unlikely. as i recall, the average saudi is enamoured with most aspects of western culture, excepting the crude, profane and godless aspects. the west's prizing of rational science, material development and humanitarian values are mimicked by saudis to the letter. they love their burger king, fine dining, shopping at the mall and sport of all kinds. they are generous with each other and extremely communitarian. most of all they love their kids. to live there is to experience an inordinately peaceful and violence-free society which ticks over calmly, much as our own (minus the vulgarity and casual violence prompted by excessive inequality). the royals are by and large viewed benevolently and the idea of a seething revolution lying under the surface is complete rubbish fuelled by ignorance. most of the well-off families have kids in american or european universities. middle and lower income families are materially aspirational like our own, just wanting a better life for their kids and willing to work for it. war and international chaos (whether militarily or economically driven) is the furthest thing from their minds - these malevolent aims are clearly being driven from the seats of world power in london and new york. the saudis just want to do business and live a quiet life - just like you and me. their society works fine and is in a gradually evolving state - one day soon women will be driving there (women are already working freely in the professions there) and the islamic style of social policy will gradually secularise - though i suspect not to the point of outright vulgarity as exists in the west. i would be looking elsewhere than saudi arabia for the sources of economy-busting conspiracy theories

Originally posted by marg6043
Why would they do that for, they are not our friends no matter what the Bush administration tells us, they are Arabs and they are supporters of terrorist organizations.

Their goal is to bring down the west for years, the greed of America consumption for oil, the meddling of our government in their lands and the support for Israel has made us their enemy, but an enemy that has made them filthy rich.

They actually do not need us anymore when they have an open and growing market in China and other developing countries like India.

You have no friends? Who's fault is that then? Stop looking for and making enemies. I really don't think you are capable of not hating or wanting to hate anybody.

What a waste of a lifetime.

I'll tell you why the House of Saud would do this. Right now, they aren't the ones seeing huge increases in wealth thanks to the elevated futures market, speculators and hedge fund investors are reaping the gains. Saudi Arabia wants to reap the windfall, and are probably a little peeved at "outsiders" (I'm talking from outside the oil cartels and corporations, not outside the Middle East) making fortunes off their oil. I also had heard a couple of months ago that there was an idea floating around for OPEC in general to flood the hell out of the market and send speculators into a free fall, basically bankrupting them. When I first saw the idea on some guy's blog he was actually saying that OPEC could, if they wanted to, flood the market so much that we'd be talking about early 1990's prices again, at least for a short period of time, dropping it low enough that all but the oldest investors in oil would be left utterly broken and unable to stage a comeback rally in the near future.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Im confused how you say Saudi Arabia is not making money. The fact is it costs around $5 a barrel to get oil out of the ground and they are selling it on the open market for $135 a barrel. They are making a killing. Now Im well aware that the World Bank and/or the IMF is getting their share of this but they still making a killing. But yes the market traders are making a killing also.