666 or 616? What�s the true mark?

Many bible readers are not aware that many of the oldest available manuscripts have 616 and not 666. Look at all the bibles you may have laying around and check the foot notes. Just something I stumbled across many years ago when doing some bible comparisons. Not sure what the 616 may mean as there is very little written about it. Maybe a (c) to hide it? Is 616 the real indicator or mark? When it comes to 666 there are any number of hundreds of books about that though. That seems rather odd too. Muddy waters cover what lies at the bottom.

Where did you say you were finding this information...the foot notes? Is there any sites that talk about it? I am not denying your information, it just seems strange for me to have never heard of it.

PS It's actually 999. OH, wait! Sorry I was holding the book upside down.

If one just uses the bible to construct what the number relates to then this is what I have gotten so far with 616.

It is an end times / last days prophesy.
It would have nothing to do with anyone or thing prior to our time.
616 is DCXVI
The power of might in the world today is the USA. Sanctions by this country and the UN makes it so none can buy or sell on the open market. No one will ever stop individuals from trading or bartering. But international boundaries can be blocked.

Washington DC the capitol, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. the address.

Footnote reads:

"Other ancient authorities read six hundred sixteen."

Doesn't matter which one is right...it matters that you are aware of both possible number.

[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Valhall]

Rather interesting, my area code is 616

An example of this spelling has apparently been recently discovered in one of the Dead Sea scrolls. (If you use the same process, but without the added "n" the result is 616. Interestingly, some early manuscripts of the Bible have 616 rather than 666, but even scholars such as Iren�us attribute the 616 to only a copyist error.)
www.aloha.net...

An intresting perspective on this topic.
Im going with 666 though, You know cuz Iron Maiden says so

I used to read a few books on this stuff, I lost the best one on it. It was a book claiming that World War 2 was actually the Apocolypse but they failed to prove a few key factors, but everything else fitted perfectly into Revelations except for a few things.

Isn't 666 the closest number to God that you can be, like the closest to perfect? Like some way 7 is a number of God, because it's the number of trumpets and etc. But that's alil far stretched I guess.

Originally posted by TrickmastertricK
An intresting perspective on this topic.
Im going with 666 though, You know cuz Iron Maiden says so

Yes I too consider Maiden the final authority on the black arts.

Originally posted by pyxsul
Rather interesting, my area code is 616

616??? June 16th? Hey, it's no more nutty then most of the theories!

It didn�t surprise me to see the 616 vs. 666 thread moved. Yet to keep in touch with the threads intent and purposes it requires some more of the story. That it implicates the US government primarily and the UN organization as two of the beasts spoken of in Rev. prophecy is true. Washington DC being the seat of the worlds most powerful nation on earth and directed from the White House at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is a remarkable coincidence. What I also find interesting is that nation has also given power and authority over to the UN to police the world for demonocracy. What you may know as democracy, the majority rules, and we know where that has now gotten us. Or some shadow government behind all that may be the reality. What is a reality is that there seems to be a concerted effort to keep the 616 manuscripts hidden, destroyed, slandered, and off the information highways.

Has anyone else noticed just which posts seem to catch the most attention? The kind of attention that gets it off the board as fast as possible? There are several topics that will get the SOP (standard operating procedure) of ignore � side track � posting of obvious pro-opposition dogma � rhetoric of meaningless messaging type posting � none secured theories instead of factual science and physics � outright lies � next slander and belittle the poster of the information. The list goes on, but the goals are always the same, get that information off the front pages of any forum they appear in. Just get it off. Out of sight is out of mind.

As I said in my introduction thread, an easily recognizable mark of conspiracy is the corruption of common knowledge. Control of information is the best that can be hoped for to prolong the non-disclosure policies covering many things. Some of those non-disclosure policies cover UFO�s, ETI�s, any information on those two topics whether it is from religionists, atheists, agnostics, mythologists, anthropologists, what have you, if it relates to ETI or UFO it doesn�t exist, it didn�t happen, and get the truth off the forums.

The bible seems to be the best evidence of ETI and human interaction over thousands of years but it has been religionized.

Originally posted by ET3
It didn�t surprise me to see the 616 vs. 666 thread moved. Yet to keep in touch with the threads intent and purposes it requires some more of the story. That it implicates the US government primarily and the UN organization as two of the beasts spoken of in Rev. prophecy is true. Washington DC being the seat of the worlds most powerful nation on earth and directed from the White House at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is a remarkable coincidence. What I also find interesting is that nation has also given power and authority over to the UN to police the world for demonocracy. What you may know as democracy, the majority rules, and we know where that has now gotten us. Or some shadow government behind all that may be the reality. What is a reality is that there seems to be a concerted effort to keep the 616 manuscripts hidden, destroyed, slandered, and off the information highways.

I knew it.I hope you can expound on this.

Hello Colonel
Well, what part would you like to have expounded? As this section isn�t about the conspiracy aspect, and I am not much into religionist�s chitchat, besides that there is very little that I have been able to discover having ever been discussed of 616 anywhere.

Just to keep ones informed about what has taken place concerning this topic over in ATS.

So we have post alterations across ALL the ATS and BTS forums from 616 to 666 and the moderators for this forum are ProudAmerican, nyeff, ktprktpr, and astrocreep and all I got was a u2u from ProudAmerican as follows.

from: ProudAmerican sent: 11-3-2004 at 03:24 AM A member of the forum staff, ProudAmerican, has noticed your one-line or less post in the thread,
The CONSPIRACIE of 616.

We want to encourage meaningful responses to threads, and discourage simplistic posts. A token penalty of 50 points has been deducted from your account for this action. Please, in the future, make an attempt to provide more to the flow of conversation than a simple one-line or less comment.

Thank you.

I am so impressed with the attention to my posts about 616 and the total ignorance of the (c) that others are posting in this thread. NOT. With three posters noticing the changes, and probably another dozen that didn�t post a comment but saw the changes I think that is enough to question the moderators of this forum. Well, what do the Moderators have to say about it? Just a joke, or ?

All I got was a bunch of (c) from these high ranking members for what I didn�t do. Blame and slander the real perpetrators of the (c).

Hello there..I was searching about 616 and generally the mark. I discovered something weird or it is just my big imagination. Well, here it goes:

As you all know the mark 666 refered on the bible is refered with Hebrew translation as 616. Here is the link in Wikipedia to see yourself: en.wikipedia.org... Well, as i looked in a Treaty Called Sengen (which is related mostly by the clerics here in Greece as the treaty that will bring the mark, so i looked) I found a specific protocol calles Sengen Information System, which
aims to gather,record, process personal info of citizents .. (like the barcode on the products).

Just look at it's initials.. SIS 616
Am i being irrational and suspicious?

For your information i am not of those catastrophologists and stuff. Just searching

A man of wisdom will know.

The name adds up to 666

Try 216 than find a name that is 216 and also 1296 in hebrew.
1296-completion of a cycle.

216 letters to the name of God yet also tied into 666. Why is this?

You really have to ponder this on a deeper level.

The man of wisdom who knows this is himself and why would the Antichrist be a man of wisdom?

Originally posted by thebookling
A man of wisdom will know.

The name adds up to 666

Try 216 than find a name that is 216 and also 1296 in hebrew.
1296-completion of a cycle.

216 letters to the name of God yet also tied into 666. Why is this?

You really have to ponder this on a deeper level.

The man of wisdom who knows this is himself and why would the Antichrist be a man of wisdom?

Wait, how does 216 tie into 666? because 2+1+6=9 and 6+6+6=18 & 1+8=9 ?? and 1296 = 1+2+9+6 = 18 = 1+8 = 9 and 999 flipped over is 666 hehe.. ?

I thought the bible said that number is Six Threescore Six. Whats "Threescore"? 300? 3? 6,666? 636? 606? 618 (6, 6x3=18)?

Well I dont know where I read the threescore thing, but i did somewhere. Anyways my bible just says 666 and it seems to be a revised NewTestiment version from 1986, so maybe in older bibles they say something else.

In the footnote it says that Ceasar Nero was a suspect because his name in Hebrew added to 666 and his name in Latin adds to 616 "which is the reading of a few manuscripts." Not sure what manuscripts they refer to, but it sounds like theres at least 2 numbers which were suspected as being the number of the Beast, 616 and 666. The reason they probably suspected 2 numbers is because early christians (who thought the world was ending in their lifetime) were saying Nero was the antichrist and were also using Latin.

My bible also says that 6 is the number of imperfection because it falls short of 7. Man is intelligent but short of Godly. Man was created on the 6th day. Triplication of a number like 777 or 666 adds importance. Like 666 is the worst of all Men. Which means it could be applied almost daily to different people.

Also, how many antichrists are there supposed to be? Isnt 666 the number of a Beast and not of an antichrist? Or is the anti-christ also the Beast? Chapter 13 of Rev. talks about 2 Beasts.

The first Beast has the 7-heads & 10-horns and is given authority over all nations. (Why 7 heads? isnt that a holy number? Perhaps he only looks holy because the antichrist is supposed to mimick Christ and seem good at first.)
The second Beast also has all the authority that the first Beast has.
Second Beast forces humans to make an image of the first Beast, which the Second Beast then makes come alive, and makes people worship the image of the first Beast.
Then the Second Beast makes everyone get the stamped image of the First Beast or a stamp of his number which stood for his name.

..boy, I wish this vision was easily available in DVD so I can pause the chapter of the Beast and watch it! It would make a trippy movie 'eh?

Irenaeus discovered 616 was a miss translation back in the middle of the second century,and is more than likely the reason why the piece of papyrus with the mistranslation was found on an ancient rubbish tip.

He wrote....

This alternative formulation for the Number of the Beast as 616 is very ancient and is attested to by St Irenaeus of Lyon who, writing (in Greek) in the middle of the second century AD, attributed it to scribal error:

Such, then, being the state of the case, and this number being found in all the most approved and ancient copies, and those men who saw John face to face bearing their testimony [to it]; while reason also leads us to conclude that the number of the name of the beast, [if reckoned] according to the Greek mode of calculation by the [value of] the letters contained in it, will amount to six hundred and sixty and six; that is, the number of tens shall be equal to that of the hundreds, and the number of hundreds equal to that of the units (for that number which [expresses] the digit six being adhered to throughout, indicates the recapitulations of that apostasy, taken in its full extent, which occurred at the beginning, during the intermediate periods, and which shall take place at the end),

—I do not know how it is that some have erred following the ordinary mode of speech, and have vitiated the middle number in the name, deducting the amount of fifty from it, so that instead of six decads they will have it that there is but one. Others then received this reading without examination; some in their simplicity, and upon their own responsibility, making use of this number expressing one decad; while some, in their inexperience, have ventured to seek out a name which should contain the erroneous and spurious number.

Which can be read here and many other places.
www.laputanlogic.com...
Yet i think one has to wonder why just recently this has been over looked and made into a big deal.I have no doubt its 666 and not 616



[edit on 8-5-2006 by gps777]