What do you consider as the best martial art in the world?

reply to post by runetang


I would argue that Many many UFC fights do not last more than the first round so your argument about resting between rounds is somewhat flawed.

I myself studied Ju-Jitsu but i absolutely love watching Capoeira

If i remember rightly Capoeira was what black african slaves taught themselves whilst in captivity. In order not to rouse suspicion to guards etc the constructed the martial art as a dance. It is the most graceful and energetic flow of movement i have ever seen a person do

For those who have not seen please watch this

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 18-6-2008 by thesaint]

reply to post by thesaint



Your in liverpool - go see John Steadman. Learn from him if you can get into his classes.

The most bad arse you ever going to meet - but a very, very nice guy to boot.

if he ever asks you if you believe in mr Spock...roll away before he gets a hand on you.

Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do

Bruce Lee's formless form.

Good day all,
Personally I use MMA, combining any and all arts to the best of my ability. One never knows what skill level, if any, an opponent will have, so I feel it is best to be prepared for any situation!
I also train in Western Martial Arts, sword and shield, dagger, axe, long bow and spear. My favorite style in general is western, sword and axe for close range and spear for medium and bow for long distance kills. But if facing an unarmed opponent I would never use a weapon, just good old fist and foot style with a really good ground technique. Most unarmed fights I have been in go to the ground, so IMO, if you really want to be well versed you need ground skills.

Originally posted by BroonStone
Good day all,
Personally I use MMA, combining any and all arts to the best of my ability. One never knows what skill level, if any, an opponent will have, so I feel it is best to be prepared for any situation!
I also train in Western Martial Arts, sword and shield, dagger, axe, long bow and spear. My favorite style in general is western, sword and axe for close range and spear for medium and bow for long distance kills. But if facing an unarmed opponent I would never use a weapon, just good old fist and foot style with a really good ground technique. Most unarmed fights I have been in go to the ground, so IMO, if you really want to be well versed you need ground skills.

I've always found quick ends to be most productive which hopefully limit more serious injuries to your opponent.
Three simple rules:
If he can't breath, he can't fight.
If he can't stand, he can't fight.
If he can't see, he can't fight.

Of course these little tidbits are not for matches but when faced in real life, dangerous situations and only should be used if they can be applied correctly.

Originally posted by Dragonfly79
Although I can't say for certain I've experienced mushin (takes many years of meditation and martial arts training), I do know driving your car and not remembering the details of the journey is not mushin. People forget because they don't pay attention and their mind is occupied with other things. They'd rather think about something while driving so they are not very aware of what their doing, those are actually the people most likely to get into a traffic accident. A driver who would have established mushin would remember the details because his mind is free of mundane distractions whilst driving. Almost robot like and totally focused on driving, anticipating other people's movements, no distractions like what's for dinner or what's on tv tonight.
[edit on 18-6-2008 by Dragonfly79]

Granted the car example is not mushin, however I wanted to highlight a common example of how the subconscious can take over. It is an altered state of consciousness when this occurs, the difference from the mushin state is that in that case the conscious mind is busy daydreaming rather than being empty. So you are correct there.
Mushin is also sometimes called "everyday mind" it is not a mystical trance like state that takes years of meditation, however the difficulty is keeping a balanced state when being confronted with real danger. You say you have never experienced it, I say you simply haven't recognized it.

Well I think that bruce lee did it best with jeet kune do... He studied many types of martial arts and created jeet kune do to defeat them/....he was also a golden gloves boxer(or equivalent thereof) and liked to dance.....he faught many streetfights and won all of them. He also liked to dabble with wrestlers and won all of the matches against those he wrestled ...his kick and punches are not flashy they are ergonomic and efficient ....he could puch within 5/10ths of a second and could demolish concrete blocks with a kick or a punch...but we will never see another man on earth who is this proficient in the martial arts....even chuck norris in his day of being a 7x world champion is scared of bruce lee. He created MMA and fighting of this type....BOW DOWN

I give respect where respect is due.

For the average individual who just wants practical self defense, the MMA route is the way to go, which is usually a little Muay Thai mixed heavily with BJJ (Brazilian Jiujutsu) taught by a trainer who is proficient in both but an all out grandmaster in neither. If you're lucky, you might live near a master; the only masters I live near teach traditional; Kung Fu styles.

My sister's boyfriend trains for amateur MMA circuit fighting, as well as San Shou fighting and Kickboxing tournaments. He relies more on his Muay Thai, but he does have a strong foundation in the Chinese arts, being an ethnic Chinese. Dont let that fool you, this guy is diesel! If you know who Bolo was in Enter the Dragon (he also played the bad guy in Bloodsport), hes like that size!

And you can become proficient much faster than with internal arts where theres Qi involved, where the movements don't rely on brute strength and forced leverage while on the ground. For someone who doesn't get into many fights but wants to be an awesome fighter, consider devoting a couple years to an internal style. If no good teachers live nearby, take an external style, even the Shaolin variants and successor styles are decent and good. Some include praying mantis, wing chun, hung gar, jow gar, lau gar, bak mei, choy le fut, chow gar, choy gar, and even fukien, which is ground boxing taught to the white lotus nuns during that era of China.

Since the women's feet were often bound, they performed much better on the ground, not being quite as capable of maintaining the balance and form for the upright styles. The fukien "dog boxing" is pretty mean ground work.. do not underestimate that which you have not witnessed. I'd call it a combination of breakdancing and jiujutsu, with an emphasis on arm locks and joint breaks.

A list of styles not to waste your time on, unless you live near a master/grandmaster of international fame: Shotokan Karate, Shorin-Ryu Karate, Karate-Do (Generic), Tae Kwon Do, or any school offering Kung-Fu that cannot tell you the direct lineage and generation of the Sifu of the school, and from which branch of style he teaches. Then go home and match the information online to ensure accuracy.

[edit on 6/19/2008 by runetang]

Sorry for the anonymous post...

BUT my two sense are as follows: The guy who said running is very clever. This will keep you fit, give you incredible stamina, and most importantly get you out of a fight...mix this with Judo breakfalls and you have Parkour.

The guy who said Iado...also very clever. The "present" is an important part of all true budo paths.

I think both boxing and real solid full contact muay thai are good choices for many body sizes.

You don't want to go to the ground in a real fight. This leaves you open to be kicked, punched, raked, stabbed, and god knows what else. If you aren't training to go to the concrete then how are you going to respond in a real fight. This is coming from someone who studies gracie barra...

There are virtually no good krav schools in the united states. Notice how much you are paying for instruction? Yeah...that sucks huh?

Systema is fake.
Chinese martial arts outside of a temple in the mountains of china are FAKE!@

For your average joe, serious martial artist, competitor or even kids it has to be:
JUDO.

You throw them on the ground and get out of there...come on. You can learn to defend yourself in six months to a year if you are slow in the head. Best of all, most Judo clubs are not for profit! That's right...dedicated people, dedicated to their art. No contracts or bull#. You want proof that you are learning? Every class comes complete with full contact resisting opponents.

Seriously...where are all the Judoka on this forum!?

Did I mention that BJJ comes from Judo? I'm so not making fun of BJJ...just don't try to pull guard in a street brawl! GOD DAMNIT!

All of you strikers out there: If you are not getting hit in the head by a resisting opponent at least once a week...go somewhere else. You can not learn to fight unless you are fighting. AND EXERCISING!!! I have seen two people leave to throw up because they were not in good enough shape for the workout. That is the martial arts way!!!

OSU!

reply to post by Stumpy1



Bruce Lee was good.

But to say no other ever will be as good as him ? I suggest a few years in China - Rural china, and you'll go...'oh righty'.

Theres better than Mr Lee in many a rural village and temple. You just haven't been there to look.

As for all these people whos fights go to the ground... Why ? why do they go to the ground ? can you not defeat your opponent standing up ?

reply to post by Dan Tanna


I have to make a point of this i'm afraid. I was once in a bar, things were looking a little bad and i decided to drag my friend out with me before the trouble started. You know how it is, if you pay attention when you're out and about you can see the trouble before it happens. I think that's actually one of the best lessons of martial arts, interpreting body language and getting out before it happens.

anyway we didn't make it to the door, five men decided we were easy pickings. Both myself and my friend were very well trained in a few fighting styles. Three of them went down easy but the last two got to us before we could put them down, we were reduced to the floor, we were forced into the position, we won.

Floor fighting is a last resort, but sometimes it has to be done. After the first three went down the last two were right in our faces and just bowled us over, i had just kicked a guys leg out and was completely off balance as a guy ran straight into my side.

Fights have no rules, you should NOT end up on the floor, but sometimes it just happens.

The Chinese literature teaches that the best martial arts must be complete. That is they must contain punches, kicks, throws, strangles, chokes and groundfighting. this seems to be the concenous in this thread. A bit of each usually suffices. There are very few complete martial arts left. I think jujutsu and hapkido are pretty good in this respect.

I must say that my favorite martial art is aikido. There are loads of reasons for this. One is that it isn't really a martial art it is teaching the philosophy of non-violence. It teaches evasion and footwork. Why fight when you aren't there. It teaches defense against multiple attackers. It has some weaknesses like a lack of groundwork and kicks as outlined above but there is so much depth to overcome this. It also teaches that blocking is unnecesary: the evasion and simulateous counterstrike is always faster than the traditional block, strike of karate. It teaches hip power. It allows the weak to overcome the strong.
I think many people who try aikido for a while and quit do not really see the depth of it.
There is a hell of a lot to learn and most of it can really only be learned from very good teachers who to be honest are ususally Japanese.

Originally posted by Dr X
The Chinese literature teaches that the best martial arts must be complete. That is they must contain punches, kicks, throws, strangles, chokes and groundfighting. this seems to be the concenous in this thread. A bit of each usually suffices. There are very few complete martial arts left. I think jujutsu and hapkido are pretty good in this respect.

I think that's correct. Whilst many wil say you should never end up on the floor (and i agree) there may be times you end up on the floor and so you should know how to fight from there.

Originally posted by Dr X
I must say that my favorite martial art is aikido. There are loads of reasons for this. One is that it isn't really a martial art it is teaching the philosophy of non-violence. It teaches evasion and footwork. Why fight when you aren't there. It teaches defense against multiple attackers. It has some weaknesses like a lack of groundwork and kicks as outlined above but there is so much depth to overcome this. It also teaches that blocking is unnecesary: the evasion and simulateous counterstrike is always faster than the traditional block, strike of karate. It teaches hip power. It allows the weak to overcome the strong.

Any art will teach the weak to overcome the strong. I've seen a 9 stone weakling toss around a man who was easily 16 stone and it wasn't Aikido. The reason he could do so was he stuck rigidly to the techniques. Whereas the big man could use some muscle and have sloppy technique, the small guy had to have perfect technique or it wouldn't work. I disagree blocking is unecessary when faced with multiple attackers. Avoiding a punch is good but being trained to block one is an added bonus. A good block can actually cause a lot of damage.

Originally posted by Dr X
I think many people who try aikido for a while and quit do not really see the depth of it.
There is a hell of a lot to learn and most of it can really only be learned from very good teachers who to be honest are ususally Japanese.

Agreed the best are usually in Japan, i won't even bother arguing that point. One of my favorite things abot Aikido as an art is the health benefits. It can be practiced by older people and has beneficial effects on the joints. That however probably isn't a part of this thread

Bonjour everyone, I'd like to extend a warm greetings to everyone...!

I'm interested in Kuk Sool Won , Goju Ryu & Krav Maga myself. I do wonder how many know of Kuk Sool Won *1st Choice* & Goju Ryu? The Kuk Sool Won system having such a access framework into so many styles to perfect by the user/student. What are your thoughts on Kuk Sool Won?

there's no such thing as a best style, it all comes down to the student, how much time, effort, energy and commitment he/she is willing to put in. Choose any art, put yhe time effort and commitment in and the results will speak for themselves. Mma/ufc is all well and good as a sport but (quite rightly)misses some essential aspects of martial arts ie bans many of the more effective strikes to soft tissue areas ie eye, groin, throat that are so effective in defence.

Neil

Sorry guys, I am away from my computer for a while, I'll try to catch up.

I just saw Kung Fu Panda yesterday, I love that movie, it's very funny. In the story, there are a lot of spiritual wisdom and not just kung fus which makes the movie (and the kung fu) even more interesting.

Originally posted by Arc Angel
I personally think a Tai-Chi master would be able to woop anyone's ass no contest. However, to achieve master status takes 40 years of training.

"master status" is a fictional term in my mind. In reality among the true scholars it does not exist.

There is no master. But anyone who is to be considered close to a master knows that you never stop learning and thus there is never mastery. Only continued discipline and evolution of the same.

In fact most martial arts are really the least about fighting, and far more about discipline, wisdom, and the powers of the mind.

I tried to say way earlier in this thread that there is no one better than the other, and I'll stick with that.

But the one universal art that gives one the ability to accel at his art of choice is the art of discipline. Discipline is the key to all of it. it's not what you do, but the approach to doing it.

All of these different styles mean nothing. They are tools. The thing that drives, manipulates and sharpens these tools is the mind. the mind in a situation of true discipline can make the body do things that wouldn't normally be accepted by the minds of others even if they saw it.

If anything, in the mind of the undisciplined, there are a lot of things that are turned off and limited in the mind. In some, what I call the "thinking self" puts huge limitations on what one can accept as far as their capabilities. i think everyone knows what I mean.

A perfect example of this is if you are standing next to your bed, you know not to step into the post or you will hurt your toe. Your "thinking self" is telling you, "i will lose my toenail if I step into the bed".

But get up half asleep in the middle of the night and then stub your toe on that post inadvertently, and you can break that toe with ease, or you can sometimes move the whole bed with that one toe. Because that "limitation" of what you perceive as real is turned off, and the force you use in taking that step into the post with your toe is tremendous because the "thinking self" that places the limitation is not really there at that point.

That level of force when applied in discipline can break someone's leg with ease with one strike. It doesn;t even have to be fast, or hard either. A single strike can win a fight against anyone when that "mastery" (fictional word) is achieved.

You can create any style you want when that discipline and control of your mind and body is achieved.

I think techniques of concentration, form, and an understanding of the mechanics of the body is a far better starting point well before deciding to try and learn any particular "art". I think that first learning how to control the body and how to amplifiy strength using form and focus are pre-requisite.

I've heard styles mentioned in here that I have never heard of and some I don't think are even real. But the well known ones a majority see as "best" were created by an individual in the beginning, but only by someone who already had the whole discipline thing down and an understanding of how to work their "tools' of choice.

In other words, you can't write a book without knowing how to read one and without liking to read first. You can't be a great guitar player without loving the instrument before the music. And you can't enjoy sex without knowing....uh I won't go there. But you know what I mean.

I think this whole thing regarding which is best is misguided (no offense please). Like I said, there is no best. There are some who are best at their craft, but they brought the discipline with them well before hand. And this level of discipline is something that some are wat more suited to than others.

In fact, it's this discipline that is the reason you will rarely ever see two "masters" fight as someone mentioned earlier. I think that was pretty accurate. That is because discipline keeps things like fighting as a true last resort, and discipline gives so much more ability and skill even in avoiding a fight, or anything.

I hope to not get off topic, while at the same time shift the discussion to techniques relevant to discipline instead of worthless MMA, and UFC doo doo.

I would like to read some takes on people's views regarding techniques of discipline without even mentioning fighting. It is my view and my practice to delve into discipline because it opens up the possibilities to so much more than fighting.

You can hang from your fingers all day. You can generate huge bursts of strength, flexibility, or even tolerance for a total idiot who would otherwise quickly annoy you. Discipline is the key to accomplishing anything. There are so many ways to win in life in any situation with it.

Anyone have something to contribute on discipline?
I'd like to hear it in any context regarding removing the limitations that our "conscious thinking self" normally places limitations on.

Jeet Kune Do.


"Haveing no way, as way", Haveing No limitation as limitation".-Bruce Lee

This style effectively is every style in one, you can do anything. You can bite the guys nose off if you have to.

The best fighting style IS to have NO style, when will people learn this.

Yes you must learn most of all the basics of the BIG NAME styles, but then make them your own. You need to lear boxing, Kickboxing, Ground and pound, submissions, and all of that, but you must make it your own, and play to your strengths and your opponents weaknesses.

Although for something quick, if you just wanna protect your girfriend from drunks in the bar, i'd suggest Boxing, and lean some wrestling,submissions. That would be the quickest way for you to become dangerous vs untrain fighters. You'd be suprised how many people don't know how to throw a straight punch with snap, or a hook without swinging a wild roundhouse which anyone with a few months boxing skills is gonna put uo on your butt when they see that comeing.

Also not everyone is born to be a Mike Zambidis(Muay Tai, with a super heavy emphasis on boxing, no one threw punches like him except maybe Tyson.), or a Fedor Emilenko(shoot in grab you,, pick you up slam you, and ground and pound you till you can fight back), or whoever you think is the best fighter in his proffession. But some good training can go a long way especially when 80-90% of people walking around have Zero hand to hand combat training.

But I would put Bruce Lee in his prime against ANY current MMA fighter, yes, even Fedor , and he would take him out in whatever round he wanted.

But if Jeet Kune Do is not recognized as a fighting style, and I had to pick just one, i would probably go with Wing Chun. Years, and years, and years to become very good at it though.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Nola213]

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Nola213]

Enlightenment is the best form of Martial Arts.

You just paralyse your opponent with your mind. They cant move and you win. lol.

All those other fighting systems take alot of work and you got to hurt the other guy usually.