Blogger arrests hit record high

reply to post by TKainZero


Good question TKZ,

Apparently, they are being arrested for this;

More bloggers than ever face arrest for exposing human rights abuses or criticising governments, says a report.

How that makes them a target for arrest is beyond me though. I mean, how far do you have to go in what you say before it becomes an arrestable offence.

If I said I was not happy with the way the current government was running things, then you can safely assume I'll be voting for someone else in the next elections. No argument there, plain and simple and clearly understood.

If I said I was not happy with a particular government carrying out acts of terrorism or torture ( a direct act against human rights in effect) then that's my opinion based on relevant information available to me at the time. Still, this is clearly not an arrestable offence...

So just what are people saying in this context that earns them the gratitude of their government to get them arrested? I guess you gotta be saying some really interesting stuff that may be so close to the truth, or is in fact THE actual truth, that someone, somewhere wants you stopped.

Then you have the problem of some governments officials not liking the image that is being painted about them..well that is just tough tumshy IMHO

Everyone has an opinion, whether it's based on fact or not, it's still an opinion. Being arrested for an opinion is just plain daft and an action against human rights in itself.

This thread by DimensionalDetective is a prime example of the sort of thing these governments are arresting people for.
Those criticizing Bush's policies are slandering America And your problem is?
So what, grow up.. everyone has a voice.. allow them to use it.. what you gonna do, Bush, sue or arrest all the bloggers who say bad things about you and 'your' country? I bet a lot of them would end up in one of the camps that people are complaining about...you know..those camps that you've got that nobody is supposed to know about...

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Extralien]

[edit on 18-6-2008 by Extralien]

I wonder, since the conception of the Internet, if the powers up high were aware of the grave potential of communication that the Internet would provide. It is hard to imagine that they would not know the implication when people would be able to communicate globally, where we would finally have a medium to give and receive information.

Indeed it is through this medium that we have all been able to learn more than ever imagined possible. How could they have not seen this coming?

I am trying to figure out the reasoning behind "letting" the Internet break free then trying to reign it back in...

reply to post by astronomine


It's a simple trick...give those not in power all the pleasures and feelings of a sense of power and control... let them have it long enough so it becomes a part of their lives and they'll feel lost without it, then turn around and set controls and demands...

Same with electricity. It was supposed to be very cheap and plentiful..
Can't remember who said this, but .. "We'll make electricity so cheap that only the rich will burn candles"... I haven't quoted it as I can't remember who said it..

similar with TV.. and then music and videos with the copyright controls.

a long list of freedoms which eventually gain controls.

The internet has connected the world, both on a personal scale and in business. Everyone is literally 'plugged in'. Imagine taking away every mobile phone from every school kid in the USA and the UK.,.. then you'll get some idea of how deep the nets wires are buried into our lives now.

They want us all connected, but now, it seems, they want to control what we can or can't do with that connection. It's not so much that they didn't realise what may happen. This may have been thought out, but it's a good excuse to create new laws of control, to bring in the bucks..

It could be that since the net was started, we've all had our freedoms with it as part of a global usage study.. what and how do people use it. now it would appear that the true power of the net is being realised and those in control are watching closely so as to define the moment they finally decide to close the clamps.

Who can say? We can only speculate on that part, but it's clearly obvious there are some who do not like what others are saying or doing about those in power.

I still find it hard to believe that we are living in the year 2008 (of modern times), we can travel into space, we have several global communication skills and yet we are controlled by an ancient form of government that is misguided, out of date and thoroughly abused by all in power.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by jsobecky
As the article stated, the majority of these cases were in China, Egypyt, and Iran.

Does that make it right?

I never said it was right. Where did you get that from?

Originally posted by jsobecky
Let us know what response you get, OK?

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Next time try to address my post without the unnecessary sarcasm. If you disagree, then disagree. Leave out the attitude, OK?

Well, you said:

We need to create a blog about the political bloggers being arrested, write up an article about their particular case and repost everything they exposed on their blog to spread their information further.

How do you expect to obtain the truth to expose these cases? I was just offering a suggestion...

Originally posted by jsobecky
The US, otoh, is the most open and free country in the world.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Really?

The United States ranks.....

Surveys? Conducted by who? Using what criteria? I bet that the source is some anti-American group..

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I highly doubt you actually took the time to look in to whether or not the United States was truly the freest nation in the world. More likely your opinion comes from the simple fact that you live here.

Because you live here and so far have not been personally inconvenienced by the continuous deterioration of our civil liberties does not make this the freest nation on Earth.

I can do whatever I want whenever I want, as long as I do not harm another. Name another country as open and free.

Why do you think otherwise? Your post implies that you think this topic applies to the US. It doesn't.

You're just mad because the Celtics won.

reply to post by gormly

Originally posted by gormly
Do any of you seriously know what context means?
Do any of you do any research?
Do any of you actually RTFA when presented?
Do any of you have any comprehesion skills whatsoever?

Come on people, "bloggers" aren't getting "arrested" in the US for blogging about corporations or human rights abuses. Read the source, do some research and get some context.

Now now, gormly, that's not the way things are done here. Knee-jerk, hysterical wailing about the horrible totaliarian fascist police state called the USA is the modus operandi. Follow it up with some irrelevant quote about freedom and security or "first they came for..", and you're sure to garner a bunch of stars.

You are absolutely right that bloggers are not being arrested in the US for political reasons, but...


The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant.

reply to post by Extralien



The Sky Is Falling!

Originally posted by Extralien

This thread by DimensionalDetective is a prime example of the sort of thing these governments are arresting people for.
Those criticizing Bush's policies are slandering America And your problem is?
So what, grow up.. everyone has a voice.. allow them to use it.. what you gonna do, Bush, sue or arrest all the bloggers who say bad things about you and 'your' country? I bet a lot of them would end up in one of the camps that people are complaining about...you know..those camps that you've got that nobody is supposed to know about...

Of course, you cannot name one single blogger who has been arrested for posting political views on the internet in America, can you? You cannot because it has not happened. Neither can DD. But spreading hysteria is fun, isn't it? Reminds me of the old fable about Chicken Little:

The Sky Is Falling, better known as Chicken Licken, Henny Penny or Chicken Little is an old fable about a chicken (or a hare in early versions) who believes the sky is falling. The phrase, "The sky is falling," has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent.

en.wikipedia.org...(fable)



reply to post by astronomine

Originally posted by astronomine
I wonder, since the conception of the Internet, if the powers up high were aware of the grave potential of communication that the Internet would provide. It is hard to imagine that they would not know the implication when people would be able to communicate globally, where we would finally have a medium to give and receive information.

Indeed it is through this medium that we have all been able to learn more than ever imagined possible. How could they have not seen this coming?

I am trying to figure out the reasoning behind "letting" the Internet break free then trying to reign it back in...

That is one of the things that makes America so great. Our Constitution guarantees freedom of expression via the First Amendment. There are countries where the internet is heavily censored, or unavailable to the general public. Countries such as Iran, China, North Korea, and Cuba, among others.

Originally posted by jsobecky
How do you expect to obtain the truth to expose these cases?

I am mainly talking about bloggers in the United States, although exposing the stories in other countries would be great as well.

The very fact that you think it would be difficult to obtain any information on bloggers arrested for political messages is in and of itself proof of the crackdown on freedoms and the spread of information.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Surveys? Conducted by who? Using what criteria? I bet that the source is some anti-American group..

Yes because everyone is against America. Poor America. America is the victim.



Freedom of the Press: Reporters Without Borders
Privacy: Privacy International & Electronic Privacy Information Center
Perception of Corruption: Transparency International
Property Rights: International Property Rights Index

Originally posted by jsobecky
I can do whatever I want whenever I want, as long as I do not harm another. Name another country as open and free.

Norway. Consistently ranked the best place to live by the United Nations Development Program which studies countries on several different aspects.

I could name more but you asked for one.

It seems that you think the United States is the only nation on the planet that you can do what you want as long as you do not bring harm to another. That pretty much means you think the rest of the world lives in slavery. I'm not sure who taught you about the rest of the world but you may want to re-examine your current knowledge.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Why do you think otherwise? Your post implies that you think this topic applies to the US. It doesn't.

My post implies that there are warning signs in the US and it needs to be stopped before it is a common event.

I hope you do not actually support suppression of freedom of speech and expression on the Internet.

Originally posted by jsobecky
You're just mad because the Celtics won.

I'm not sure where this is coming from but I really could care less that they won. I hate the Lakers if you are implying that I am a Lakers fan.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
The very fact that you think it would be difficult to obtain any information on bloggers arrested for political messages is in and of itself proof of the crackdown on freedoms and the spread of information.

Yes, there is a crackdown on freedoms and the release of information. But not in the US. Just try to obtain info from those countries listed, China, Iran, or Egypt. They don't have FOIA's.

Here in the US, it would be a simple matter. But as I stated, bloggers don't get arrested here for political reasons.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Surveys? Conducted by who? Using what criteria? I bet that the source is some anti-American group..

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Yes because everyone is against America. Poor America. America is the victim.

Well I don't know about everyone, but it's beginning to seem like you are.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I can do whatever I want whenever I want, as long as I do not harm another. Name another country as open and free.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Norway. Consistently ranked the best place to live by the United Nations Development Program which studies countries on several different aspects.

Yeah, if you like socialism.

And your source - the UN. Now there's an impartial, unbiased organization.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

It seems that you think the United States is the only nation on the planet that you can do what you want as long as you do not bring harm to another. That pretty much means you think the rest of the world lives in slavery. I'm not sure who taught you about the rest of the world but you may want to re-examine your current knowledge.

What a wild-assed either-or conclusion for you to draw. And trying to make it my conclusion isn't going to work.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

My post implies that there are warning signs in the US and it needs to be stopped before it is a common event.

Your post is typical of America haters. Instead of discussing the countries where there are problems, like Iran, China, or Egypt, you try to deflect the discussion onto the US, even after it has been shown that there are no political bloggers being persecuted here.

That pretty much tells me that you support countries like Iran, China, and Egypt, and their policies of censorship and suppression of free speech.:shk:

Originally posted by jsobecky
Yeah, if you like socialism.

Ah yes. Lets label countries more successful and free than the United States with broadly defined words that are supposed to be spooky and convince people that the United States is the greatest.

Originally posted by jsobecky
And your source - the UN.

Now there's an impartial, unbiased organization.

Hey, I don't like the UN either, but what other organization should I go by? I'm not so sure they are biased towards Norway. Let me in on the secret if they are.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Your post is typical of America haters. Instead of discussing the countries where there are problems, like Iran, China, or Egypt, you try to deflect the discussion onto the US, even after it has been shown that there are no political bloggers being persecuted here.

So no political blogger has ever been persecuted in the United States?

Originally posted by jsobecky
That pretty much tells me that you support countries like Iran, China, and Egypt, and their policies of censorship and suppression of free speech.:shk:

Oh yes, I support censorship and suppression of free speech, yet I'm sitting here saying I'm against censorship and suppression of free speech. That really makes sense.... :shk:

Its that kind of circular logic that people like you attempt to use. Play it out in your head before you decide to type it next time.

And as long as we're talking about it, no, I don't support Iran or China in anything, and I don't know enough about Egypt to decide one way or the other. But not knowing enough goes both ways, so that clearly proves I do not support them either.

Can you prove that? ... Not saying you are making it up, but you never know... Also, I'm researching conspiracies 24/7... well, subtract 4 hours of sleep a day... LO ... L ... So I .... (falling asleep)... KIDDING! ---> The secret is to never go to bed angry, so I've been awake for FIVE YEARS! - AND NOBODY WILL STOP ME! My website is kinda like a blog; I post the verifiable evidence for everyone to see, & I'm trying to figure out hoe to get as popular as infowars.com & ATS... Any ideas? Actually, no... I'm going to stay on topic now:

---> Basically, It comes in my mind now & then that I should be getting a knock on the door from 'officials' or the Men in Black, & whenever the doorbell rings, I activate my hidden camera that will record, & stream video DIRECTLY to a SECURE server, & would be viewable on my site ;-) ... - So I guess they know that, & will never attack me in my own home... - Shortly, I'll have a hidden camera on my body, & it will upload to the nearest unprotected wireless internet connection.

I'm not paranoid; Just a slightly eccentric & funny intellectual anachist artist.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by Novus OrdoMundi
Oh yes, I support censorship and suppression of free speech, yet I'm sitting here saying I'm against censorship and suppression of free speech. That really makes sense....

Its that kind of circular logic that people like you attempt to use. Play it out in your head before you decide to type it next time.

Do you know why I posted that bit of idiocy? Because of this bit of idiocy that you posted:

It seems that you think the United States is the only nation on the planet that you can do what you want as long as you do not bring harm to another. That pretty much means you think the rest of the world lives in slavery.

I'll make you a deal: I'll stop if you'll stop. It's more fun to debate the facts anyway.

reply to post by Time=Now

Originally posted by Time=Now
---> Basically, It comes in my mind now & then that I should be getting a knock on the door from 'officials' or the Men in Black, & whenever the doorbell rings, I activate my hidden camera that will record, & stream video DIRECTLY to a SECURE server, & would be viewable on my site ;-) ... - So I guess they know that, & will never attack me in my own home...

I do something similar. I bang two sticks together to keep tigers out of my back yard. The fact that I have never seen a tiger in my back yard is proof that banging sticks together works to keep them away.

Excellent post, btw.

reply to post by Extralien
We should make it perfectly clear that the US government has not arrested any bloggers in the US for blogging their opinions. American bloggers have been arrested in other countries but not here. At least not yet.
For now they are proaly all having horrible car "accidents" or all commiting "suicide", but definetely no arrests.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Fathom]

In security we where trained that a real and present threat was a action that was capable of being committed by a certain or particular party, threat was never determined by justification of someone looking scary, its certainly come a long way ,what pertains a clear threat? in security everything is a clear threat, in real life its the deep blue sea,Everything is quantitative.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Now now, gormly, that's not the way things are done here. Knee-jerk, hysterical wailing about the horrible totaliarian fascist police state called the USA is the modus operandi.

I do agree that i sometimes partake but on the balance the totalitarian nature and fascists practices of the US national security state are overwhelmingly displayed in their foreign affairs practices. Comparatively Americans still have it pretty good and i am sure they realise that it's better to kill others for profit than it is to move too quickly against the American public that still believes in the very ideals their government id desperately trying to undermine locally and ,far more effectively, abroad.

Follow it up with some irrelevant quote about freedom and security or "first they came for..", and you're sure to garner a bunch of stars.

First they came for the drug users and everyone they thought they could brand with being a drug user employing MANDATORY minimum sentences that for a small amount of most drugs can lead to sentences as long as those normally used for MURDERER. Why go for any specific group first when you can go for whoever you like under and aegis of the 'War on drugs'? Why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world ( well it's the largest brute number but maybe you want to double check about the highest rate) despite having a crime level that is not much higher than in comparatively well developed nations?

You are absolutely right that bloggers are not being arrested in the US for political reasons, but...

Well they wont arrest 'bloggers' but they will arrest drug users who i am sure many would believe to be drug users as well.

The facts, though interesting, are irrelevant.

And what do you know about the facts Jsobecky? You have never managed to convince me that you are any more astute than is the norm for those who just can't find many faults with their countries or governments. When you do you can start using the word 'fact' but until then i just see a bit of red ( but not the communist shade if you were wondering) and feel more compelled than ever to point out the more obvious fact that the facts you believe are rarely all that factual.

Stellar

reply to post by StellarX

Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by jsobecky
Now now, gormly, that's not the way things are done here. Knee-jerk, hysterical wailing about the horrible totaliarian fascist police state called the USA is the modus operandi.

I do agree that i sometimes partake but on the balance the totalitarian nature and fascists practices of the US national security state are overwhelmingly displayed in their foreign affairs practices.

Take Iraq out of the equation and your assertion falls apart. Besides, do you know what the word "totalitarian" means? Well, here it is:

A political system based on absolute power of a single party or dictator.

www.google.com...:Totalitarian&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

There's no way you can apply that to the US.

Follow it up with some irrelevant quote about freedom and security or "first they came for..", and you're sure to garner a bunch of stars.

Originally posted by StellarX
First they came for the drug users and everyone they thought they could brand with being a drug user employing MANDATORY minimum sentences that for a small amount of most drugs can lead to sentences as long as those normally used for MURDERER. Why go for any specific group first when you can go for whoever you like under and aegis of the 'War on drugs'?

According to the usual hysteria being thrown around here, laws are passed so that "they" can enslave all of us. So, we should all be in jail, regardless of whether we do drugs or not.

Originally posted by StellarX
Why does the US have the highest incarceration rate in the world ( well it's the largest brute number but maybe you want to double check about the highest rate) despite having a crime level that is not much higher than in comparatively well developed nations?

There is no way you can prove that assertion to be true, unless you can get all countries to divulge their rates. And you will never get China, NK, Iran, many mideast countries to reveal their numbers.

Besides, in places like Africa, they don't imprison. They just commit genocide.

Originally posted by StellarX

And what do you know about the facts Jsobecky? You have never managed to convince me that you are any more astute than is the norm for those who just can't find many faults with their countries or governments. When you do you can start using the word 'fact' but until then i just see a bit of red ( but not the communist shade if you were wondering) and feel more compelled than ever to point out the more obvious fact that the facts you believe are rarely all that factual.

Stellar

Sorry, Stellar, I stand by my country. I love the USA. It's a wonderful country; just witness how many people want to enter our country and live here. That doesn't happen in too many countries.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Take Iraq out of the equation and your assertion falls apart. Besides, do you know what the word "totalitarian" means? Well, here it is:

So why on Earth would i wish to take Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea and Panama out of the picture? Why should i choose to disregard such overwhelming evidence in support of my claims?

A political system based on absolute power of a single party or dictator.

www.google.com...:Totalitarian&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title

There's no way you can apply that to the US.

So you wish to claim that US foreign policy is not totalitarian in nature and that it does not seem to stay the same no matter who is in office?

According to the usual hysteria being thrown around here, laws are passed so that "they" can enslave all of us. So, we should all be in jail, regardless of whether we do drugs or not.

But you see Americans HAVE in the past achieved victories over those who have always tried to keep them enslaved and those very same people are still doing their best to get America back to 1899. We 'should' not all be in jail but i know for a fact that hundreds if not thousands of Americans are in jail for their political beliefs and their actions in the African American liberation struggle.

Originally posted by StellarX
There is no way you can prove that assertion to be true, unless you can get all countries to divulge their rates. And you will never get China, NK, Iran, many mideast countries to reveal their numbers.

There is not country on Earth with more people in Jail than the United States and since there are four times more Chinese that means China incarcerates people at no more than a qaurter of the American rate. So who are the true totalitarians?

Besides, in places like Africa, they don't imprison. They just commit genocide.

Yes, in many third world countries there is most certainly no funds to waste of something as frivolous as prisons and that certainly affects those rates. As things however stands Africans genocides are just going trough the same interventions that native Australians, Americans and South Americans had to deal with and given the fact that in all those instances the natives fought each other ( and committed acts of virtual genocide) when they were displayed by the European invaders Africans deserve no more scorn than any other continent.

Sorry, Stellar, I stand by my country. I love the USA. It's a wonderful country; just witness how many people want to enter our country and live here. That doesn't happen in too many countries.

It is not a problem to love your country DESPITE it's flaws but to outright deny them just shows that you are either desperately ignorant or do not really love anything and anyone but yourself. To deny reality when it's not comfortable is not love but the defense mechanism of those who selfishly believe what best suits them.

Stellar

[edit on 20-6-2008 by StellarX]

...why does it surprise anyone here that those who uncover the truth from "its" tomb will be ridiculed and punished! This has been going on since the beginning of Humans' existence on the surface of earth.

If the powers that be don't like something you can bet that they'll find a reason to shut you up!


I wish I could move to the moon....

exposes the fact that Western govt are becoming increasingly fascist and suppressive

reply to post by StellarX


excellent post , a star from me ..

[edit on 24-6-2008 by manson_322]

reply to post by Extralien


Well, assuming the 'assumption' is true, a Revolution is in order. You want to retain your freedom, get your weapons at the ready! This is America and it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that freedom of speech is assured. Your freedoms are not free per say, but rather, to be defended. Badge or no badge, defend your freedom and that of your fellow citizens.

That is all.