You Work Hard, You Save Regularly BUT What Guarantees Your Money is Safe?

reply to post by Justin Oldham


I don't question the wisdom of buying Silver or Gold but I cant afford to do so which means I have to take other measures . When I can afford to do so I add to my garden with the goal of producing as much food as I can in a small space . I have also been thinking about having a way of cooking and heating my home without electricity. Even if there isnt an economic melt down these measures still have benefits in the face of rising living costs .


None of these measures will help me in terms of the value of currency but they give me some survivability.

You make a good point. Self-sufficiency is a good thing in any crisis. Help yourself first. then, see what you can do for others.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

You make a good point. Self-sufficiency is a good thing in any crisis. Help yourself first. then, see what you can do for others.

Reminds me of the instructions given aboard commercial airliners. "In case of an emergency, oxygen masks will drop down. If you want to assist another person, be sure to put your own mask on first, then help the other person." Which is to say the obvious, you are worthless if you pass out.

I agree with your assessment of the need for lead. Last year, I wrote extensively on this very subject here on ATS. We are facing a period in our history that could result in a lot of social chaos. We're not as "hearty" as we used to be. A modern "Depression" would hit much harder than it did in the 1930's.

Hits harder today than 80 years ago? Yes. And why? The five major cities aside, the urbanization of America was more a post World War One phenomenon. The people who moved into the growing cities carried with them the skills they had learned on the farm. Backyard gardens were ubiquitous - by my memory. For example, my own father had been born in rural Warren County, KY, in 1901. He moved to Louisville around 1925, in part due to a crash in the international grain markets. Farmers were in an economic depression long before the city folk.

For reference, from the US Census website, compare the population of my hometown Louisville in 1930, 307,745 and 2005, 556,421. From the same website, see a similar growth in the national population: 1930, 123,202,624. 2000, 281,421,906. (2007 est., 303,111,027)

I would aver that in 1930, 90% of all Americans had a rudimentary knowledge of planting and harvesting a garden even in the city. I’d have to reverse my numbers today, allowing that only 10% of today’s population could grow a lot of their own food. I still recall the Oktoberfest held in Louisville’s Germantown, and that dozens of the residents made their own sausage and sauerkraut (and beer too). Aside: I have recently learned that good Mexican beer is brewed by Germans removed to Mexico. That is also true of good Chinese and Japanese beers. End.

This knack to grow your own food was greatly encouraged during the Second World War. Victory Gardens! My father and 2 of his brothers had access to about 1.5 acres. We planted a large garden every year of the war and fed 9 people with freshly grown and harvested fruits and vegetables. I remember one year when the 3 sisters-in-law worked 2 days canning some of the produce. (Differences over assignments prevented a repeat performance).

My first year in Jacksonville found me buying a large pot and 2 tomato plants. There is no soil in Florida like I’m familiar with. I bought expensive potting soil to fill my pot. My reason for 2 plants was to select one to keep after 4-5 weeks, and to discard the other. Well, the summer was dry, and the regular watering became tedious, so I gave the pot and plant to another person who got a few tomatoes but not nearly as many as I had paid for.

LAST. I guess everyone reading this will agree that if we have a re-run of the 1929-1941 Great Depression, it will be BEST to have the Dems in office than the GOPs? Bubble UP beats Trickle Down in Hard Times Every Time!

A friend of mine says that our local assay company is selling a great deal of gold and silver. What would you make of this?

reply to post by Justin Oldham

A friend of mine says that our local assay company is selling a great deal of gold and silver. What would you make of this?

I'm not surprised. France is especially well known for its private ownership of gold. Credit Suisse mostly, I suppose. I haven't been to their website for years but I think they once offered a tab of 1/10th gram of .999 gold. If true, that would be worth about $3-$4 today. About as little as practicable. There would not be much if anything you could buy in Alaska (but snow) for that little bit of money. OTOH I would not want to be carrying a pocketful of 1 oz (28 gm) American Eagles or SA Rands. Five of those would be worth $5,000 and far too much to carry when all the cops would have long since gone native.

Yes, I'd say it would be wise - and practical- to have $2-$5,000 in gold well secreted in your home. Split into 2-3 caches in case you are under torture to tell all!

Personal to J/O. A quarter ounce gold coin is worth $200-$250. That should buy more beer even in Alaska than you can carry. Who do you trust to watch the remainder?


[edit on 8/4/2008 by donwhite]

I'm a fan of the quarter ounce coin. I do agree that it might be a good thing to have at least one month's worth of operating capitol on hand as gold or sivler. Having that much cash on hand makes sense, too. Bearing in mind the growing failure rate of U.S. banks, I can only suggest that we keep an eye on the dollar and consider these hoarding options as a last resort.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

I'm a fan of the quarter ounce coin. I do agree that it might be a good thing to have at least one month's worth of operating capital on hand as gold or silver. Having that much cash on hand makes sense, too. I can only suggest that we keep an eye on the dollar and consider these hoarding options as a last resort.

August 5, 2008. The NY Spot market for gold is $886 bid as I write. Silver is $16.75 bid. The gold to silver ratio is given as 52.91 but that varies with the prices for each commodity. See Note below.

Once upon a time when the US Mint put out silver dollars, there was 1 oz of silver in each coin. The basic gold Double Eagle was also a 1 oz gold coin. The US Eagle is offered at $936. The Canadian Maple Leaf is offered at $931. The Krugerrand is offered at $905. Yet all contain 1 oz of gold. The 1 oz silver Eagle and silver Maple are offered at $19 and change for either.
www.kitco.com...

For example, if you need $1,500 net per month to "get by" on, then I’d agree it would be desirable to have $1,500 to $3,000 cash in US dollars on hand. As for precious metals, I’d say again, also about 2-3 months supply would be very desirable. I’m saying you should have $4,500 to $7,500 on hand. Aside: J/O, may I suggest you take your next book royalty check from the publisher and get this done? End.

Many years ago the Swiss bank, Credit Suisse sold small bars or tabs, of pure gold marked with their company logo and the amount of gold in the piece, in grams. 28 grams being 1 oz, av. A half gram tab would fetch $15 or so today. Do not confuse metric grams with troy grains. I gm is equal to 15.4 grains. www.metric-conversions.org...

By the 1890s, new finds of silver in Colorado allowed this precious metal to far outstrip the production of the older gold mines. The US was on the gold standard. The price of gold had been fixed at $20 a ounce after the Civil War. (It remained at that value until 1933). William Jennings Bryan became famous for his 3 runs for the presidency. In 1896 losing to Wm. McKinley; in 1900, losing again to McKinley; and in 1908 losing to Wm. H. Taft, the hand picked successor to Theodore Roosevelt.

Democrat Bryan - famous for his cross of gold speech - see below - wanted to FIX the value of plentiful silver to scarce gold at 16 to 1, an artificial overvaluing of silver. Republicans wanted a lower fix. 8 to 1. The effect of the higher fix would have made money CHEAP - plentiful - and would have been an aid to the poor and poorer. Keeping money expensive - scarce - favors those who already have money, i.e., the Rich and Famous. In 1913, Bryan "won" when the 16th amendment and the Federal Reserve Act were adopted. In 1933 the US went off the gold standard for good.

Follows the last paragraph in the Cross of Gold speech: "Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 8/5/2008 by donwhite]

I note with some interst that the price of oil is now less than $120 per barrell. the Bush administration is in a position to take some credit for this, but they're not doing it. Congress is now on a five week recess, and the President is out of the country. Ouch.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

I note with some interest that the price of oil is now less than $120 per barrell. the Bush administration is in a position to take some credit for this, but they're not doing it.

That’s not hard to decipher J/O. The artificial price bubble has burst! Or is “leaking” air fast! Everyone agrees that speculators have contributed to the recent SPIKE in oil prices. There is no consensus on how much, but I’ve heard everything from 70 cents a gallon to 50% of the total price. Yesterday an Arab sheik was quoted as saying $70 a bbl was a “realistic price.”

As long as the unregulated commodity market remains open to all sorts of trading, it will set the price we pay for crude (and for food). We as a society choose to remain helpless to these ups and downs without apparent cause. If Bush43 gave a dam, he'd call Congress back into special session to FIX the commodity market. Since there are 6 billion of us and no more than a few 1000 of them, my question is: HOW LONG do we let this blackmail go on?


[edit on 8/6/2008 by donwhite]

the next President, and the next Congress, will be under a great deal of pressure to take action. New regulations are necessary, and you don't have to be a Republican to see that. the current administration and Congress is too corrupt...and paralyzed...to do anything of real merit.

In much the same way that a clean up was necessary after the 1929 crash, we will need a clean up after this oil bubble has burst.

reply to post by donwhite


I wouldn't get to excited just yet . Last year there was a similar just in prices at the pump before the price of petrol reached the two dollar mark . I expect the current price drop of sixteen cents at the pump to be another temporary dip in Oil long price rise . The market for Oil will bottom out just like housing market that time isnt here just yet .

reply to post by Justin Oldham

J/O: New regulations are necessary . . you don't have to be a Republican to see that . . the current administration and Congress is paralyzed... [unable] to do anything of real merit. In much the same way that a clean up was necessary after the 1929 crash, we will need a clean up after this oil bubble has burst.

reply to post by Xpert11

X11: I wouldn't get to excited just yet. The market for Oil will bottom out just like housing market that time isn’t here just yet.

It’s going to be a tough sell. To clean up the mess. So many people are making so much money in the FREE MARKET with little or NO regulators. Wheelbarrows full of MONEY will flow straight from K Street to Capitol Hill and 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. We'll need traffic cops to keep them in order.

In 1933 the opposition was bankrupt. Morally speaking. And idea-wise. The West was desperate. Germans choose Hitler to be the Chancellor. The Brits were down and out. Italy was happy under Mussolini. The trains ran on time. Japan went under the heel of the Army General Staff.

If we have a STRONG charismatic leader with WISE ideas and the chutzpah to put it into effect, we can do it. We’ll need monthly “fireside” chats with sensible, intelligent and straight-forward talk.

I do not have the slightest hope that John McCain could rise to that level. I do not believe he even realizes the depth of our problem. He has after all NEVER WORKED A DAY IN HIS LIFE.

Obama is riding a wave fueled in a substantial part by white guilt over 400 years of unrelenting racism. The Millennium Generation. It’s our chance to undo the past or get a new start and to set the country on a new course. All in ONE fell swoop! No one in the Obama camp wants or expects him to lay out a road map small town by small town. Just tell when me the bus pulls out and its destination.

And we'll leave the driving to US! (US being Obama!)

[edit on 8/7/2008 by donwhite]

reply to post by xpert11

I have to disagree. While gold and silver have been very good investments for the last several years my own sense of the Market is that it is either reaching or already at a top. Yes there might well be further appreciateion, but gold has become so overvalued it has to fall. The main reason for golds increase over the last few years is the slide of the dollar which has led to increases in all comodity prices. Theresreally no structural reason for gold increase that I can see.

As to the oil speculators, why isnt anyone giving them credit for dtriving the price of oil down?

You cant blame them for drviing it up since untill recently every market signal expressed the concept that oil supplies will remain tight. Now that the prospect of new suplly is more likely, they are helping to bring the price down.

Originally posted by Critical_Mass
Have you ever thought of investing your money into something more secure like gold? In my opinion it is and has been the way to go.

Have you (all) considered investing in what really matters?

Your families, your hobbies, your education, your ideas, your love, your understanding and your realisation of what is of REAL value to you!

After reading these posts, I feel richer than most of you here.....and I'm skint!

As the U.S. mortgage meltdown continues...what should we expect from the eventual bail-out of Fanny and Freddie? It's not going to affect me, but I know some people who do have their house mortgages covered through those funds. What's to be done?

At the risk of going off topic I have a question for Don in particular . Now I usually avoid this kind of discussion but I couldn't help myself.

If he could comprehend the credit crunch and the way the minority elite control oil prices what would Theodore Roosevelt make of all of this ?
Unlike today purely idealogical driven Republican movement Theodore understood that capitalism has to have some boundaries in order to give the wider population a fair go .

I think that T.R. would say that its time to do some Trust busting. that's just my two cents adjusted for inflation, but we'll have to see what Don says.