The prevalence of 'arrogance' in Christian vs Atheist debates

JesusIsTruth
Ok I am writing this but only once am I going to explain this, and seriously use your minds and think...

This thread is in response to the single poster JesusIsTruth and his like-minded Christians. It is targeted at the 'arrogant people' that assume they are correct based of faith alone.

It is also targeted at the atheists who are as much at fault as the fanatical religious on these boards. It is targeted at these arrogant people who hold the assumption that there is no chance of a God or Gods existing.

The petty fighting needs to stop. The repeat inflammatory threads need to stop. One side will start a topic with an absolute in it's name such as 'truth' or 'fact', and the other side (in their rights) oppose the thread and start one of their own. This helps NOONE and makes both sides of the debate look like 10 year olds fighting over the existence of Santa Clause.

My topic title, God is irrelevant, is more than a play on the words of JesusIsTruth. It is a statement which i whole-heartedly believe. God, whether he exists or not, would not want to see his creations fighting amongst themselves about his existence.

To quote myself from JesusIsTruth's topic:

WHY SHOULD A BELIEF (OR LACK THERE OF) IN GOD MATTER?

Spend less time preaching (both sides) and get out in your community. Be a good, moral person and do good things. It shouldn't matter what religion you are, if more people actually walked the walk and got out there and made a difference this world would be a better place.

So this is a humble request from a fellow member that has been watching this cycle of bickering and name-calling go on for over a year. Can both sides agree to disagree on the existence of God, or at least discuss the topic in a civilized manner without the use of terms like 'arrogant', 'ignorant', 'wretch' (JesusIsTruth).

Go out today and do something for someone. Perform a good deed, regardless of your faith. Do it for your fellow humans. If everyone that was overzealous about a belief spent less time trying to push that belief on others and more time helping others the world would be far less problematic.


EDIT: Topic name change to avoid confusion.




[edit on 16-6-2008 by fooffstarr]

I am not fighting with anyone/// if you would read what i was saying.. i was trying deeply to explain what grace is, and you will also notice I said that I was a wretch too... and that I am worse then the athiest...


" Don't fight over religion "

I am not, that's not why I made that post, the original sentence makes it look like that but it's not my intention brother...

I believe there is only one religion... If all religions were true God would be divided against himself so i do believe at some point souls have to search for what that is and ask God to show them...



" Do a good deed "

I do everyday and am happy everyday, that is also why I made a topic called the positive thread.... like I said doing good works in all humility are the only things important....

why I made that post was because I was responding to atheist making threads like..


" Use my bible as a bathroom footstool "


and people who make hateful post for no reason.

If those type of post happen again, I'm just gonna let it happen this time... I'm not even going to respond this time because it's not worth it, just like trying to debate people like lastoutfintie.... just let them think they are right and move on///


trust me I am not trying to fight with anybody, they are hardheaded as hell but still souls of God..

peace.

Originally posted by fooffstarr
It is also targeted at the atheists who are as much at fault as the fanatical religious on these boards. It is targeted at these arrogant people who hold the assumption that there is no chance of a God or Gods existing.

What about the 'arrogant' people who assume they understand the minds of atheists?

Can we include them?

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Glad to see you are level headed about this. I really didn't know what kind of reaction to expect.

It was unfair of my to single you out also i guess, but i've just had enough, from both sides. Christians start topics trying to solve the atheism 'problem', and atheists start topics trying to 'un-brainwash' their rivals. It is just childish.

It shouldn't matter what belief system you hold as long as you are a good person .

reply to post by melatonin


I'm an atheist myself... and i'm sick of being looked down on because of the attitudes and actions of other like minded people.

Originally posted by fooffstarr
I'm an atheist myself... and i'm sick of being looked down on because of the attitudes and actions of other like minded people.

OK, so which atheists are you aiming this at?

I've seen very few on this board I would call the slighty batty no. 7s.

ABE: you will be looked down on whatever you or other people do. Atheists are viewed as the most untrustworthy group in the US. If you are american, you can't hide from that. There's not much you can do. And more relevant in your case, if you mix with many americans there's not much you can do (i.e. here).

Don't blame it on other atheists, blame it on the widespread attitudinal bias found in that country.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by fooffstarr


What about the arrogant people who claim that God can neither be proven or disproven and play the mediator? What about yourself?

So you don't want people to call people arrogant, but you're calling them arrogant? Aren't you shooting yourself in the foot with that comment?

I can, with 100% certainty, and have now on many occasions, disprove any invisible diety named God, or at the least have you realize that your God is not invisible and is not unknowable, but rather is the absolute opposite.

You can not provide proof for something that is eternally unknowable, intangible and eternally invisible, this means that this thing as far as we are concerned, whatever it may be, is utterly irrelevant and non-existent in our reality and no one can ever begin to explain it or its attributes, only what it isn't relative to what is.

Go tell a Muslim that Jesus is truth, light and way: Yes it is relevant and yes it is a big deal. Oh these threads are so tiring and rhetorical, yet so simple to dismantle and disprove.

It's irresponsible and irrational to try and convince me to have faith in nothing while at the same time attempting to explain it as something.

Either it's something and it's knowable, which is everything being that it's omnipresent, or it's nothing at which point it is not omnipresent and becomes not the god of theology.

God, whether he exists or not, would not want to see his creations fighting amongst themselves about his existence.

Oh yeah, and you know this... how? You don't really have the logic to be telling us how to act. You're just another walking contradiction. You tell everyone to stop arguing over God, while illogically using God to tell us what it would want, simultaneously claiming to be an Athiest .You're using God as your own control mechanism over others.

It doesn't matter whether it exists or not, you are athiest so obviously you don't believe in God, yet you know what it wants...? What exactly do you mean by that? And if you begin to explain why God wants this, you then have to explain how you know this... and at that point you're no longer an Athiest. Welcome to logic. This is why people's beliefs are important.

[edited so JesusIsTruth can understand]

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by fooffstarr

Dude, are you sure he is a christian?
What makes you think that?

lastoutfinite, you are the description of what hes talking about.. you can make all the little icons you want dancing, being goofy whatever, that doesn't change the fact what you said in previous post..

I can do that stuff all day too..:w:

and

and

and



but what describe you is:bnghd:

Okay, watch. I will now edit my post and take out all of the faces and my logic will still be the same.

Maybe you have trouble concentrating on the words because of the faces? I think we call that ADD.

Anyway, I'm going to edit it, you ready? After I do, read it again, then pick it apart and tell me where my logic is flawed.

Thank you.

I am not what he is talking about, in fact what he is talking about is not only himself, as shown by me, but he is also talking about you.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

you mis the point dear brother... this:w: is some what of a hidden pride sometimes in the soul.. It makes you feal like you are dumbimg down the other person that's why i don't use those things.. Not all the time though...


anyways.. I will not argue God with you again because of your post in another thread... we ALL have fallen into the category he is talking about myself included and if I have done anything like that it won't happen again.... souls are too important to me to fight with with a harsh tone...


peace.

I didn't miss any point.

Well, so what?!

If someone is repetitively being ignorant I will tell them.

If they are being arrogant I will tell them.

If they are being illogical I will tell them.

You don't want to argue god with me and you didn't intend to to begin with.

You just wanted to try and find a character flaw that wasn't there. I was luaghing and making faces because I was enjoying myself, but if it offends you then I'll change it, and I did. However my logic to disprove the invisible god and prove the visible God still stands and hasn't changed a bit. You can chime in on it whenever you're ready, unless you enjoy your character pop-shots oh holy one.



[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

what he means is...

" God wouldn't want that "

is that God wouldn't want people to use harsh language to each other... which is true.. some of our conversations lead to this and it shouldn't go that far..

it's very simple.. anything we do to hurt others physically or verbally God doesn't want us to do...

peace.

yea whatever..... your sarcasm doesn't impress me...

I don't care if you have a good time.. do your thing son...

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
" God wouldn't want that "

This is why I laugh... He says God wouldn't want that and he then claims to be an athiest, while simultaneously saying that the subject of God is irrelevant.

is that God wouldn't want people to use harsh language to each other... which is true.. some of our conversations lead to this and it shouldn't go that far..

OHHH! That's what he stands for and that was the point he was trying to get across! So that's why he said in his title "This is to the arrogant people". Yeah, conversation already lead to that, he put it not only in his title but in his O.P. I am really laughing now. I can't help it. I really am, so I might as well show it through the faces.

it's very simple.. anything we do to hurt others physically or verbally God doesn't want us to do...
peace.

I don't harm people physically, but if someone harms me phsically and makes an attempt on my life, they will be eliminated.

As for verbally: I'm just a logical genius. If it hurts you then your idea of God is wrong and you should change it to the correct view, otherwise you will continue to hurt.

" logical genius "

hahaha, please.. that's not what I'm talking about... say a bully in school repeadetely says something harsh about someone... and it leads to a fight as I seen many times...

thats what I am talking about..

the only thing genius about you is your mastery of the little icon button...



He claims to be an athiest, but hes saying it from A STANDPOINT OF OUR BELIEFS meaning speaking to ones who should listen to their own teachings in terms of OUR faith...


you get smarter by the hour LastO///

" character flaw "

Nope you are perfect...


icons are my best friend.....

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
the only thing genius about you is your mastery of the little icon button...

Then open your perception because there is plenty more where that came from. Oh, and was that an attempt at being a... bully? I'd hope not after that nice presentation you just gave.

He claims to be an athiest, but hes saying it from A STANDPOINT OF OUR BELIEFS meaning speaking to ones who should listen to their own teachings in terms of OUR faith...

Right. I understood that much. I then said that it is illogical to say such or to even know such for the both of you because you can't prove God as it is and for two he claims to be an athiest. This entire thread is built on contradiction. It's as absurd as telling people they can not wear red anymore while dressed in a red jump suit.

you get smarter by the hour LastO

Oh, is this more insult? I thought you didn't like that stuff, oh holy one

Just remember: you reap what you sow.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal


For a logical genius, you sure don't pay that much attention to others, as well worded as you may be.
claiming that someone is no longer atheist because they say what they think god would want and wouldn't want is absurd, maybe they are god, or maybe they are trying to explain something to christians without offending them and straight up saying god doesn't exist, its all about getting a point across and fooffstarr did a fine job of that, had you payed attention you would have agreed, but I guess you aren't exactly the most peaceful of atheists and would rather convince someone wrong on a point they believe true.

I also notice you capitalize the word god, silly thing to do for something that you believe doesn't exist.

I think you are all missing the point.

What I'm trying to say, regardless of my lack of word smithing ability, is that petty bickering, name calling and holier-than-thou attitudes accomplish nothing.

If as much time was spent on volunteering or fund raising for charities etc. than was spent bickering on these boards between opposing faiths than we could all make a difference.

This thread has turned into exactly what i was fighting against. If JesusIsTruth and LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal want to continue their personal conflict, feel free to do so elsewhere.

This topic was created to try and start a change in the attitudes here. Yes, it may seem arrogant and big of me to even try, but i believe that we have far more to lose as a community if someone doesn't. Long standing, respectable members of these boards are as susceptible to provocation in religious debate as anyone else, and i can't blame them, but i don't want members to get so heated in atheist vs Christian debates that they get themselves banned.

Has this post clarified my stance for people? I'm probably as arrogant as the parties i am trying to help by posting this topic, but i had to try. Ignore my message and go on fighting amongst yourselves by all means, but at least i tried.

reply to post by pshkwamy


Thanks for your support. I'm glad the message didn't go over someone's head. And yes, I did try to 'put myself in their shoes' in regards to Christians (I used to be Catholic many years ago) and state what I think God would have wanted of them in regards to acceptance and tolerance.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by fooffstarr]

reply to post by fooffstarr

One side will start a topic with an absolute in it's name such as 'truth' or 'fact', and the other side (in their rights) oppose the thread and start one of their own. This helps NOONE and makes both sides of the debate look like 10 year olds fighting over the existence of Santa Clause.

Now add yourself to the list. The title of this thread coupled with the fact you just compared belief in God to Santa Clause makes you just as guilty of creating an bigoted inflammatory thread.


Oh the irony...