How do people NOT believe we are in a police state?

I don't understand how people can think we live in a "free country" when we have more people in jail per capita than any other state?

The United States has the highest documented per capita rate of incarceration of any country in the world.

source

If you tell someone that they lived in a police state, they would probably just laugh at you. I would laugh too. It is funny because it sounds so absurd. We were taught since we were in elementary school that "America" is a nation established in the name of freedom, liberty, equality, justice, "inalienable rights", and all that great stuff. We were also taught that the "Indians" and the white settlers were friends. It is all programming. The idea that "America" is the freest country in the world is so ingrained into most people that they are unable to question it. How could the "land of the free" be a police state?

Here is a map of the world's prison populations:



Notice how evil Iran is only in the 100-149 range.
Look at how China is in that same range.
Canada was always a nice place though.



Just grows like a chia pet.

So having people in jail makes the United States a police state? Do you understand the concept of a 'police' state?

reply to post by SteveAndrew


No, having more people in jail than any other state out there speaks a little about the system here. I do not mean "police state" in the totalitarian big brother sense but instead a state in which the freedoms of the people are severely limited by its laws, and it is only getting worse. I guess I should have called it a transitional stage. The second picture shows the exponential growth of people breaking the law. The question is: are there more people who are breaking laws, or are there just more laws to be broken?

It does seem like the latter as more and more legislations that take away our rights are passed.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by italkyoulisten]

I disagree, it speaks volumes about our judicial system. A nation where laws are placed on the people is a country where I'd like to live!

What laws severely limit us Americans?

Actually The Usa is several police states and many other states as well. A "Police State" is run by "agressive policing". Such States as many in the Northeastern USA are infact police states. Then again there's many other states to move to.

I grew up in a police state. I think it is wrong. Police are idiots just like everyone else and when they are told to percieve criminal activity through their own perceptions of sterotypes and profiling, among personal biases, there is put into place a control over others by a group.

So monitoring and placing people in prisons is having a police state? In that case, I want all of the United States as a police state!

You're assuming all police officers are biased/racist. The majority of officers in the United States are open-minded individuals who assess criminal activity thru investigative procedures.

I would like to take this opportunity to offer my unwavering loyalty and undieing allegiance to our new Furer George W. Bush.
I hope you will find me useful as I will be a loyal servant and defend your honor to my death. I pray night and day that all who would blaspheme your good name be thrown into the ever burning lake of fire and find no relief forever and eternity AMEN!!!

If you can't beat em' join em'.

Come on now, sarcasm isn't the answer. And because I am a grammar Nazi, it's Führer.

Originally posted by italkyoulistenI do not mean "police state" in the totalitarian big brother sense but instead a state in which the freedoms of the people are severely limited by its laws, and it is only getting worse.

I think you have it completely backwards. The people in jail are there for the most part because THEY did something to infringe on the freedoms of their victims. The justice system enforced the laws which were enacted by people who exercised their freedom to elect a representative government.

My freedom to live a peaceful life without having to deal with some thug trying to steal my money or otherwise harm me has been protected.

reply to post by jamie83


A large percentage of the prison population is due to drugs. How is someone who is found in possesion of a controlled substance infringing on your rights?

Yes we are in a police state, not because of the fact that we have the most arrests in the world but because of the ways the police are able to make those arrests.

"Sobriety" checkpoints, which should really be called "fascist bigbrothers got his eye on you checkpoints", violate our fourth amendment right but they are still allowed to set these things up and stop anyone innocent or guilty. But its not just the police its the DMV also did you know they own your car? its very tue your car is actually owned by the state and every time you register your car you are waiving your constitutional rights to privacy and property, but they dont tell you that they tell you "shut up sign, dont ask why because its illegal if you dont sign".

The government is getting more power than it should. The government also owns you. They own you because every document you have your name is in capitol letters yea? well that means you are recognized as an artificial person and as an artificial person you are not entitled to rights granted by the united states constitution, because you are property of the united states government.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by caballero]

Are those truths Caballero? Or assumptions?

What do China and Iran do with their so called criminals. If they execute the majority of the individuals we send to prison that may explain the data. Just curious if anyone knows.

reply to post by SteveAndrew


Oh its the truth and my eyes were opened thanks to MidnightDStroyer whom taught me these things here is the proof.

Tennessee Department of Revenue Operations Supervisor Denise Rottero told Judge Greer how Tennessee's auto registration process works...

The process begins with the "surrender" of the Manufacturer's Statement of Origin ("MSO") by the auto dealer to the Department of Revenue, in exchange for a Certificate of Title. Asked if a Manufacturer's Statement of Origin is proof of ownership, legal title to the automobile, Ms. Rottero said, "Yes."

"Are you telling me that ownership of an automobile must be surrendered to the State before it can be registered?" she was asked.

"Surrender title, yes." Rottero said.

The certificate of title to your automobile is Not title, it's merely evidence that title exists. Your car's legal TITLE is the MSO, which the dealer surrendered to the State. Ms. Rottero said the MSO is put on microfilm for permanent
keeping, the original is destroyed.

After the trial, spectators expressed shock that their personal automobiles were actually owned by the state. "No wonder state law officers stop people for no reason!" said a housewife. "If your car's got a Tennessee plate, it's
theirs, and they can do anything they like to you!" That's the law, but it's voluntary. No one but Judge Greer had dared say that if you don't surrender your car to the state in exchange for plates, you go to jail.

The source to DMV ownership of your car

A United States citizen is a subject (property) of the federal government. His name is spelled in all caps. These citizens have only civil rights, (privileges and immunities) secured by the good faith and credit of the United States government. Neither state nor federal constitutions protect them

Source for quote regarding CAPS

Legally, since your birth your artificial person, has been considered a slave or indentured servant to the various federal, provincial and municipal governments via your STATE-issued, STATE-created birth certificate in the name of your all-caps person. Your birth certificate was issued so that the issuer could claim "exclusive" title to the legal person created. This was further compounded when you voluntarily obtained a driver's license and a SSN (Social Security Number). The state even owns your personal and private life through your STATE-issued marriage license/certificate issued in the all-caps names. You have had no rights in birth, marriage, nor will you have them even in death unless you re-capture your straw man.

Source for my last quote

Silly billy I wouldnt make stuff up here that would make me look like a fool! I understand though it is very shocking to hear the truth.

extra source 1
extra source 2

[edit on 14-6-2008 by caballero]

It's not a prison state, and if you think so, you obviously have no idea what the term is meant to imply. There are, however, an absurd number of people in US prisons, largely because of the ridiculously harsh policy taken towards minor drug offenders by the USA.

Hmm, I saw a video about this Dr. Kent Hovind - Redeeming The Straw Man

Interesting; I'll have to study this. Thanks a lot for bringing this to my attention

[edit on 14-6-2008 by SteveAndrew]

[edit on 14-6-2008 by SteveAndrew]

Originally posted by SteveAndrew
So monitoring and placing people in prisons is having a police state?

It depends on how we are monitored. If every phone call we make is traceable and recordable, if every credit card transaction is documented, and soon everyone will have a NATIONAL ID due to the Real ID Act of 2005 which means everyone's information will be linked to a NATIONAL database. They have cameras that can recognize faces and other cameras that are supposed to be able to "spot crimes" from hundreds of yards away.

Privacy is a thing of the past.

And yes, how does possession of marijuana infringe on other people's freedom?

reply to post by SteveAndrew


Couldn't agree more. As for the OP and few others here a little bit of advice.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


It doesnt strike you as odd that we are so intolerant of such minor offenses. Sure a lot of the drugs make you do cazy things like cocain, lsd, meth, any other man made drug (off topic did you know that '___' is actually a failed Military weapon that was supposed to be used to distract the enemy and make them WAY passive so the army would not meet so much resistance) however weed, which is one of the major drugs that gets people put away, DOES NOTHING worth making it illegal. In fact cannabis is only illegal because the paper companies lobby it to be illegal, because cannabis is very cheap to grow it grows fast and it produces more paper/material than a tree ever would. So if cannabis was legal paper companies would go out of business.

And I am more than sure that when a nation locks its people up for minor offenses that should make us as citizens feel very uneasy. It could just be drugs, that make you passive and are equal or better than effects from alcohol (better in the fact they dont make you so stupid [some not all are like this mind you weed being one]) but the next day shoot it could be any number of things reading, speaking the truth, or even thinking freely. Obviously its a stretch to say those things but we have to hold on to our rights today before they are gone tomorrow.

SteveAndrew- Yes please do read up on it let me know what you come up with, I have been trying to find a way to reverse it so I am recognized as a natural person not property of the state. You wouldnt have to pay anymore taxes (YAY!).

Also the definition of a police state:

police state
–noun a nation in which the police, esp. a secret police, summarily suppresses any social, economic, or political act that conflicts with governmental policy.

So its not just police arresting people.

[edit on 14-6-2008 by caballero]

reply to post by SteveAndrew

I disagree, it speaks volumes about our judicial system. A nation where laws are placed on the people is a country where I'd like to live!

What good are laws when they are not enforced? We do not live under the rule of law here in the US, we live under the rule of a police-state, where "justice" is applied arbitrarily and for profit.