Intelligent people less likely to believe in God

Originally posted by dominicus
"God is a crutch, it's all about faith, it's all belief in invisible realities"

HAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaha

Im sorry but I dont use faith or belief. I see and speak with God daily and I know 100% that God is real. It's a comedy for me to watch athiests post their "reason"

Your not gonna find God using science which studies physical and measurable matter. So in that light.....Science your "Crutch" to argue for the non-existence of God.

Science is not looking for God. The people the look for God find him. I know I did and I'll bet my savings account and my own life and soul for that matter that I and the other thiests/diests are right.

I met a guy once that was 100% certain that he could fly. He is no longer with us. Of course, you don't need to listen to this because you just know it to be true. The same way that people that don't believe you know that they are right.





[edit on 15-6-2008 by BlueEyes]

Thanks for the compliments. Of course its not my material. But i will give some more details since you liked it.

Spiral Dynamics and the developmental psychologists have really answered alot. Most people dont want to admit theyve got alot of the evolutionary process of the human mind mapped out and can kind of see where each is at. However there are many lines of development, so people often are on different levels in different aspects of tgheir life.

The map is the same for the individual as for the collective. Of course some people cut up stages in different ways, cuz its more like a continuum.

Theyt generally start with the Purple Magic Meme. Then we have the Red Warrior Meme, which heads into the Blue Mythic Meme. So you can see in africa there are loads of people converting to Islam, going from warrior to Mythic. Of course these groups are going to be flying thru memes at a much quicker speed than we did millenia ago. I also think much of africa is dying because they are so far behind. The collective will not survive if we dont shift far enough. The Mythic Meme will kill us.

Iit appears the Orange atheist meme is where the illuminati are. THey think theres no god, so they are filling in. they are perpetuating the illusion of the MYthic meme to enslave people there.
by the way, the stats i gave are from the West. Asia we could say is behind, but i think they might have something different about them that could give us more hope for them. Perhaps they can jump from Mythic sense of Buddhism to a more enlightened integrated sense, skipping atheism. who knows.

So in the west about 25% are in the green meme. the first explosion of this meme was obviously the hippies. We can then see that the last change in memes, somewhat en masse, occured in about 200-400 years. The scientific revolution kind of started with Keplar 1500s or newton 1600's and hard core by 1700s. The blue meme lasted thousands of years. And the memes before were tens of thousands. So, whats interesting is that things are speeding up.

for some reason they say that the yellow meme is the last of the memes in this grouping. Something like the harmonic cycle of music or chakras. 7/8 memes per group. So i guess we'd have to cut it up into 7/8 memes to get that to work out. The way i have been taught i know of 6 memes. I dont know why they think the yellow meme is the last of this cycle and the new beginning of the next. If anyone could find that reasoning i would love to know.

But i think it makes sense. Everything in the world points to our times being quite special indeed. All the speed up to now. Environmental pressure, 2012, other prophecies around the world, 6.7 billion people on stage to see the show, etc. Im excited.

I really think we need as many people as possible reaching the Green Meme to care for the planet and stop focusing on material science. I need to touch things to prove it. We need to go into the abstract like science has anyways. We cant touch psychology but it is useful.

And of course the more people reaching the Yellow meme of integration is of great importance. Just think what the unveiling of UFO's and/or govt coverup would do. Virtually the whole planet would instantly have to change memes lol.

the reason more educated people are atheist is because that moves people out of mythic beliefs into atheism. Of course we have over 25% beyond atheism, but they often cant answer the stupid simplistic question of god so accurately. They dont really take stances to fit into the dualistic argument.

When are people gonna stop using the vague, tainted, word god anyways.

Saying you believe in god is saying nothing at all. Pantheists believe god is everything, so thats easy to confuse peolpe. Yea i believe in a word god thats includes everything lol.

So anyone intelligent would use descriptive words that gives info to their belief.

The Creator....The One.....Superconsciousness......the Source......Power.......The Chaordic balancer (lol i just made that one up)

And my all time favorite is the shamans paradoxical term. Since i believe the creator and the universe are paradoxical i think paradoxical ways to talk about god are the best.

"THE DARK SEA OF AWARENESS" - isnt that bad azz

Shamans obviously pick their words after centuries of exploring the nature of reality.

"God is dead" - Nietzsche.

"Nietzsche is dead" - God.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by Cantwara]

What excuse does Richard Dawkin have then ! The God Delusion?

Originally posted by Cantwara
"God is dead" - Nietzsche.

"Nietzsche is dead" - God.

That is great. Remind me to use that sometime.

The OP relates how the statement 'Intelligent people less likely to be religious' was described as simplistic.
Well, the truth is like that ( simple). The truth would not benifit from hundreds of pages of parable metaphor and trivia, for example; only a concept that needed a heck alot of selling would require that treatment.
An alternative headline could be, ' Sane people less likely to be religious'.
It would be just as true.
The biggest disaster in human history is us all dying young ( among other disorders ) because enough lunatics think that this ( life ) is only a test.
We oughta feel dumber than earthworms and we don't. Delusion is the only reason why.

My test to any religious person:

Why believe in God? What proof is there?

I've never gotten one straight answer. Until I do... I'll just keep living my life the way I do. Maybe is fine with me.

This premise is completely ridiculous. Arguably the most brilliant mathematician and physicist of all time, Sir Isaac Newton was deeply religious, as were most scientists of the renaissance era. This bias is nothing more than the effect of atheistic brainwashing in our schools. You will find for example few men and women of faith in the life sciences thanks to the foolish dogma of evolution.

It's merely the signs of the times. It was predicted by Jesus himself. The love of most would grow cold and people would become lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God. We are in an era of fools not intelligence. The Bible says, "The fool says in his heart there is no God."

reply to post by Quazga


by birchtree
"But then again I am not intelligent as the rest of you because I beleive in God and I always will Amen!!! "



"Your true platform comes out. You couldn't possibly fathom someone who enjoys ecstatic religious experiences, but doesn't allow his subjective mind to cloud his rational thought about what is actually happening. To you , someone either believes or they don't, and if they don't they are somehow arrogant and in denial. "


Quazga that statement was made in a sarcastic manner, I have never hid the fact that I believed in God.

The point being....which I already wrote, is that the so-called conclusion of the Doctors oratory is a wide sweeping generalization, which is charaterized by any other group as stereotypical thought, used to downgrade others while placing themselves on an intellectual plateau that is somehow unobtainable by the target. All of which is a defensive strategy to implicate that if others do not agree with their conclusions on a matter, then this just proves that the target is not intelligent enough to comprehend. It is an esoteric argument, which as I indicated by other words earlier is just another offshoot of the red herring.

as far as your statement "...you couldn't possibly fathom someone who enjoys ecstatic religious experience, but doesn't allow his subjective mind to cloud his rational thought about what is actually happening..." You don't have a clue who I am or what I know, I am not on here with a religious platform in mind or any type of agenda other then to state that this is an idiotic study made by a doctor who is prob no more intelligent then you or I. I hope you are having an awesome experience of you own and I congragulate you on your colorful happiness, but that is not what this discussion is about as you so often like to point out to others, it is about an article, which was based on the statistics of the people and area where the good doctor decided to take it to get the independant results he wanted

As far as the last part of your statement listed above "...about what is actually happening..." you have no idea what I know or once again what I believe, but while people far smarter then you and I argue about science, geo-politics, religion, physics, cosmology and sociology, among other dealings of our universe and of other aspects of life and the world around us and are unable to agree about them I am glad that you, while calling other people arrogant know what is actually happening.

reply to post by birchtree


Yeah I know, I completely misread your post as belonging to ALightintheDark.

My apologies.

reply to post by Quazga


Smart people think they know about the world; sometimes they do.

So find an atheist and he will most likely root out the cause of
worldly mysteries.

Things like the cause of UFOs, 911, war in Afghanistan and other such
befuddling events for religious humans.

Atheism is as much a belief system as Christianity, Islam or Wicca. They take scientific findings (and quite often scientism as dogma) and construct their own veiwpoint around this.

This is fine but there's a subtle nuance to the whole science vs religion issue in that even if science has in many areas managed to nullify the need for a God, it doesn''t neccessarily follow that there isn't one. And in may ways science hasn't really addressed or solved the issue at all, just presented facts from which people draw their own conclusion. People draw their belief from a mish mash of evidence, reasoning, gut instinct and influence...and this is fine as long as we acknowledge that belief and knowing are two seperate things.

On the issue of the existance or not of God, intellectually the only thing you can be IMHO is an agnostic, because NOBODY REALLY KNOWS. Some people have a problem with ambiguity and tackle this by attempting to browbeat and persuade others to their way of thinking, because there is comfort in numbers, then they ridicule or denigrate those who continue to think differently. This is why so many athiests of a certain stamp set up simplistic and outmoded models of God (old man/white beard/sat on a cloud/arbitary) because it's a conveniant straw man who is easily knocked down. In this way they're as dumb, intolerant and beyond reasoning as their radical Christian or Muslim counterpart. This ridiculous study is proof of that.

Believe what you want to believe - pro or anti - but acknowledge you don't actually know.

Originally posted by Cantwara
Believe what you want to believe - pro or anti - but acknowledge you don't actually know.

Socrates said the same thing basically. That knowledge starts by realizing that we do not know.

Originally posted by mOOmOO

Critics being? The religious ones? Well that's to be expected

How come "god" keeps running out of money and needs to be topped up every week?

LOL, man what a scam, suckers.

I agree and disagree. I agree because of the fact that many churches pretty much 'require' the 10% tithing for their members. Why should it be required? Why should it be 10%? Because of some vague story written by man in a book made up of many other books that have been re-translated dozens if not hundreds of times? I just think that it's scary that some of the richest organizations on this planet happen to be religious based ones. (Vatican anyone?)

I disagree if the money is given freely and thus used for great causes. I can't tell you how much good I have seen done by some local churches. If those funds would not have been there then some families would have been destroyed or set out and such. Just wanted you to keep that in mind while you laugh at all of the suckers being scammed.

reply to post by Cantwara


Nope. Please read a dictionary and understand what "atheist" means. It has nothing to do with science. It has no central doctrine, no leaders, no single voice, no official position, nothing. It is simply a lack of belief in any god. That's it. It is not related to science in any way, apart from the accidental.

Otherwise, if what you said was true, there would be no religious scientists. Obviously they are, so obviously you're speaking rubbish.

reply to post by onlyhurtsu


Once again, you have brought a serious amount of enlightenment to this thread.

I for one appreciate it.

God Exist. You want your proof. Look around you and yourself. It is just not a freak accident that you are here. You are here on purpose with a reason.

This is a typically Marxist argument.

However, what many of the "Scientific elite" fail to recognize is that Science itself can be a religion.

Nope. Please read a dictionary and understand what "atheist" means. It has nothing to do with science. It has no central doctrine, no leaders, no single voice, no official position, nothing. It is simply a lack of belief in any god. That's it. It is not related to science in any way, apart from the accidental.

Otherwise, if what you said was true, there would be no religious scientists. Obviously they are, so obviously you're speaking rubbish.

Actually Dave,

Atheism noun, the doctrine or belief that there is no God…

That’s the dictionary definition I found, if you want to cherry pick definitions to justify your somewhat obnoxious reply go ahead but doctrine it most certainly is and belief system too, but in an effort to make allowances for your inability to grasp the broader context of this discussion… SOME atheists….MANY atheist…A LOT OF atheists are as guilty as many religions/religious practitioners of being blinkered, falling back on dogma (scientism) and resorting to aggressive evangelising. One oft employed method of defending this belief has been the reductionist/materialist scientific model. Dictionary definitions aside, this is co-opted often enough to be considered more than casual and rather central to the modern atheist viewpoint. So it’s with no little irony that I consider it a belief system.

Religious scientists make the effort to place science in its proper open minded context, as a useful tool of investigation, not the final word on everything. So in this framework my observations were not at all out of place or misinformed.

Like I said earlier, none of us really know. If that elicits such an aggressive response in you take it somewhere else. I’m interested in discussion not petty flame wars.