DNA evidence rocks the boat

Our Forgotten History Part 2; Lemuria
www.youtube.com...

Our Forgotten History Part 3; Atlantis
www.youtube.com...

Analysis of Basque DNA, existence of Atlantis completely viable
www.edgarcayce.org...

Now, what DNA evidence in fact does prove is that Native americans did not cross the bering straight and did not evolve out of Siberians. Native Americans are the red people, what they are is a mixture of all the other peoples, white, yellow, black, and brown.

Isolated groups of people and genetic drift in fact can show us that all humans did not come out of Africa and Native Americans did not come out of Siberians

DNA Evidence for Atlantis: Beyond the Bering Strait - DNA Evidence Rocks the Boat
www.redicecreations.com...

Genetic analysis on Native American DNA samples began in the 1980s. However, the research effort greatly accelerated in the 1990s due to rapid technological progress in the field. In fact, the early results confirmed the generally accepted theory showing a clear link between Native Americans and DNA samples collected from native peoples in Siberian-Asia. Nevertheless, as the studies both deepened and broadened to include Asians across the continent, the increasing data revealed that the migration pattern had been more complex than anthropologist's had envisioned.

The early results showed that Native American tribes were comprised of four distinct mtDNA haplogroups, A, B, C, and D. The haplogroup designations represent four different (maternal) lineages. These four lineages are found throughout North, Central and South America. However, only three of them A, C, and D were discovered in the Siberian-Asian populations. The B haplogroup was traced to aboriginal population groups in Southeast Asia, China, Japan, Melanesia, and Polynesia.

Before proceeding we should briefly clarify what mtDNA is. There are two types of genetic material used for analysis, cellular and mtDNA, the latter is found in human mitochondia outside the nucleus of cells and is only transferred down generations through females, hence mtDNA stands for maternal DNA. This type is simpler than the cellular DNA and it evolves faster,so it is used to distinguish human groups that evolved in separate geographic areas.

Genetic researchers determined that 96% of Native Americans fell into one of the four A-D haplogroups and while these mtDNA types were also found in Asia they are not present in Europe or Africa. This too indicates that Asia was the ancestral region of most Native American tribes. Then in 1997 another lineage was discovered, which geneticists dubbed X. This discovery ignited a storm of controversy that has not died down to this day. The X haplogroup needs careful,thoughtful, and deep historical analysis because this group may well hold one of the most important keys to unlocking the secrets of our collective past.

Obviously about 4 percent of Native Americans, from Alaska to the tip of South America, do not fall into one of the four major haplogroups. Scientists assumed that these minority lineages came from interactions with European and African groups since the time of Columbus. This proved to be true for about 1.5% of Native Americans however 2.5% were found to belong to the X lineage. Once this small mtDNA group was identified as a distinct genetic type, the race was on to ascertain their place of origin.

This is where the mystery really gets complicated and interesting. In spite of the fact that the previous genetic data was forcing the orthodoxy to make some alterations in their migration scheme and chronology, as we saw their basic paradigm had been confirmed. But the discovery of the X haplogroup changed that situation dramatically. It was known to exist in Europe in about 5% of the population and unknown in Asia and Africa at the time. The X lineage was ascertained to have arrived in the Americas from about 38,000 to 10,000 years ago. What could this mean?

At first anthropologists argued that since Europeans had not traveled across the Atlantic at such a remote point in time the X group had to be the outcome of post Columbus contact and intermarriage. However when researchers analyzed ancient DNA samples, found in the Great Lakes (Mound Builder) region, which dated back long before Columbus they identified some of the samples as belonging to the X group. This proved they were not the outcome of any post-Columbus contact and were not of recent origin.

When investigators compiled the genetic data on the distribution of the X haplogroup in the America's what they discovered sent shock waves through the conventional and alternative history camps. The X lineage was only found in a handful of tribes scattered across the country, the Yakima and Sioux in the northwest and the Navajo in the southwest, in about 5% of their populations. However, the greatest concentrations by far occurred in the Ojibway, Oneota and Nuu-Chah-Nulth tribes where almost 25% of the tribal members fell into the X lineage.

Moreover, the vast majority of tribes contained no X members. In fact, it was not found in any native tribes in Central or South America. Again, what did these patterns mean? Independent researchers associated with the Edgar Cayce Association (A.R.E.) quickly pointed out that the data supported some of the material found in the Atlantis readings that the 'sleeping prophet' had given in the 1930s. Cayce noted that some Atlantis refugees had immigrated to the northeastern region of the United States and later formed the Iroquois nation. It was in those tribes that the highest concentration of the X haplogroup was found.

As for the "out of Africa, it ihas also long been disproved, no matter how many scientists still try to desperately hangout, desperately data mining the genome for anyhting they could construe as supporting their "out of africa nonsense"

The apparent widespread presence of the X lineage across what is now known as the United States appears to show a wide initial dispersal. One could postulate a west-east migration of this haplogroup from Siberian Asia. But that scenario poses two serious obstacles:1) the greatest concentration of this group is found in the northeastern region of the United States and 2) X is virtually absent in Asia.

Like a good detective novel, all of the clues had not been uncovered in the late 1990s when the X group had been identified and was being hotly debated. Geneticists pressed forward and launched a probe into the Altai tribe located in the Gobi desert and found the X lineage in small numbers. This is the only population in Asia that exhibits this haplogroup and as such they comprise a tiny, isolated genetic island. Orthodox anthropologists were elated when the news reached their ears. They seized on this finding as smoking gun proof that the X group in North America had its ancestral roots in Siberian Asia, end of story.

To say that this was an unscientific rush to a final conclusion that just happened to agree with their long held beliefs is an understatement. Let us pause and use logic and commonsense and try to walk through what we are being asked to accept. The Gobi Desert is about 8,000 miles from the northeastern section of the United States. We are being told that this tribe trekked that distance and transferred their genes from their ancestral homeland to the Great Lakes without depositing the X group genes in any other part of Asia, Alaska, Canada, and the region between Washington and the Northeast America.

Everyone agrees that any such migration would have taken place during the harshest of conditions since the Ice Age still held this entire region in its frigid grip. Furthermore, we are being asked to suspend our disbelief raised by the notion that a tiny tribe trekked these vast distances across a frozen landscape for unknown reasons. Why would any small tribe risk everything and wander half way around the globe during an ice age when they did not know what lay beyond the next horizon? In fact, anthropologists and historians know that this is not the way human tribes have operated since the dawn of time.

On February 16, 1932 Cayce related some information during a reading that is extraordinarily cogent to this unfolding genetic mystery story. When asked about the position of the continent of Atlantis he replied:

"The position the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other."

Now, we must pick up the trail of clues on the other side of the Atlantic. Let us keep in mind that when Cayce gave this reading DNA had not yet been discovered and there was no such thing as mtDNA analysis. Nevertheless, he mentioned "evidences" in two specific locales, the Pyrenees, a mountain range sandwiched in between France and Spain where the Basques live, and Morocco where another ancient group, the Berbers resides. Astonishingly, these two populations contain the highest frequencies of the X lineage found in Europe and North Africa.

The Basques have long puzzled anthropologists, linguists and historians because, although they are Caucasian they do not fit in with the rest of the European populations. Their language is not related to any other tongue in the world. Prior to the advent of genetic research tools investigators used the ABO blood groups to study the relationships between human populations as well as their migration patterns. The Basques turned out to be unique in terms of blood types as well. As a population they contain the highest levels of Rh- 'O' negative blood in the world and among the lowest type B.

Now, what Cayce was suggesting is that some of the people that fled the sinking continent went west and settled and became the Iroquois. Others went east to the Iberian Peninsula then the Pyrenees (Basques), and the West Coast of North Africa then the Atlas Mountains (Berbers). Turning to the Berbers we find yet another group that contains the highest frequency of haplogroup X in the world. Is it a coincidence that these disparate peoples share a very rare mtDNA lineage?

It is unfortunate that the Berbers have never received much attention from science over the years. Here we have a Caucasian race living in North Africa of all places. Anthropologists dismissed them because they did not fit well into the 'Out of Africa' scenario and it was assumed that they had back immigrated southward from somewhere in Europe. However, that theory has been abandoned and scientists now accept the fact that they are an indigenous people, which they believe go back to the Stone Age. But how can this be we must ask since the rest of the continent below the Sahara is black African?

So it's pretty clear Native Americans did not evolve out of Siberians, but rather, they are a mixture of all other peoples.

So no, humans did not all originate in Africa, only black people did. White people originated in Carpathia I believe, the Yellow probably in China, etc.


Caucasian mummies found in South America in a deep underground tunnel 85 feet underground. They were the Chachapoyas and the incans called them "the people of the clouds" becasue they lived among the clouds in remote areas. The "Bearing Strait" land bridge theory is now down the toilet lol!.

www.meta-religion.com...

Land Bridge finished
www.learnersportal.com...

However, there are more and more scientists that are contesting the Beringia Land Bridge theory as the only means by which humans came to the Americas. In fact, some maintain that new evidence suggests that there were a variety of routes from different directions that were possibly taken by groups of ancient peoples. Others have disproved the theory of migration through the ice-free corridor at the times when travel was assumed to have taken place.

Geologist Alejandra Duk-Rodkin of the Geological Survey of Canada has completed extensive research of the Mackenzie River Valley, the area commonly assumed to be where an ice-free corridor was open for ancient peoples to walk through. She has found strong evidence to prove that this journey was not possible without the aid of boats between 30,000 to 10,000BP. Read about the results of her research in Chapter 21 “The Corridor That Wasn’t” in Bones: Discovering the First Americans by Elaine Dewar (Toronto: Random House Canada, 2001).

There's also Kennewick Man

And Monte Verde disproves the bering straight theory
www.epinions.com...

The problem with this hypothesis is that, while there are many Clovis sites found in North and South America, no evidence has ever been found in the area of the ice-free corridor, within the correct time frame, to support this theory of migration. However, as no alternate theories had been found acceptable, though a minority of archeologists clamored for recognition of an earlier migration, this theory had become standard thought. This was before the artifacts at Monte Verde came to light, a discovery that threw an unexpected spanner into the works of current archeological thought on the populating of the Americas.

7,500 miles from Beringia you’ll find MVII, the site number for an archeological dig at Monte Verde in southern Chile. Carbon dating from MVII has resulted in dates of 12,500 BCE. These findings caused a bit of a stir, as it was evident that people were dining on Pleistocene llamas and fish in Monte Verde 1000 years before the opening of the ice-free corridor. Upstream from MVII there would be more evidences to stir the pot. MVI, about 35 miles away, consisted of stone tools and hearths as much as 33,000 years old. Though the MVI date was, and still is, severely contested, it was obviously time to reevaluate the accepted theory of migration.

So anyways, apparently humans migrated from Africa straight to south america....yeah right! Explain 40,000 year old footprints in mexico evolutionists

40,000 year old footprints in mexico cause evolutionists to scramble to make desperate and irrational exuses.
www.ljmu.ac.uk...
www.mexicanfootprints.co.uk...

lol! "evolutionists uhappy with results!" Notice how they claim, "it must be either a whole magnitude wrong and they must be way older, or they're not footprints at all then probably, or this or that excuse, but it can't be what the dating methods indicated!" Lol @ scrambling to make excuses and reinterpret things
www.answersingenesis.org...


It should also be noted, that not many humans would have lived in Africa prior to 10,500 BC, as before that, it was covered in lakes. Certainly not a good place ot roam around and throw spears around.

Prior to 10,500 BC most humans lived much closer to the equater, and the pre-historic cvilizations have mostly been submerged

Ice Age civilizations destroyed
www.youtube.com...

Earth changes, we know the exact dates
www.grahamhancock.com...
www.giss.nasa.gov... 9/
www.agiweb.org...

The rate of sea level rise slowed between 14,000 and 12,000 years ago during the Younger Dryas cold period and was succeeded by another surge, "meltwater pulse 1B", 11,500-11,000 years ago, when sea level may have jumped by 28 m according to Fairbanks,

ANTARCTIC ICE SHEET KEY TO SUDDEN SEA LEVEL RISE IN THE PAST
eobglossary.gsfc.nasa.gov...

"This event happened near the end of the last Ice Age, a period of de-glaciation that lasted from about 21,000 years ago to 12,000 years ago," Clark said. "The average sea level rise during that period was about eight millimeters per year. But during this meltwater pulse there was an extremely rapid disintegration of an ice sheet and sea levels rose much faster than average."

The amount of sea level rise that occurred during a single year of that period, Clark said, is more than the total sea level rise that has occurred in the past 100 years.

The reality is that sea levels rose quite rapidly.

Don't be too brainwashed by scientific theories. Obviously throughout human history, some lines will become extinct leaving no trace other than perhahps ancestors. If modern science has no idea such a lineage existed, youcannot trace back to it.

Don't believe DNA magically can trace back all the lineages there are. It can't be used to identify a lineage that went extinct thousands of years ago that we don't even know existed.

Edgar Cayce can explain very clearly

Q. Was Atlantis one of the five points at which man appeared in the beginning, being the home of the red race?

A. One of the five points. As has been given, in what is known as Gobi, India, in Carpathia, or in that known as the Andes, and that known as in the western plain of what is now called America -- the five places. In their presentation, as we find, these -- in the five places, as man (Let's get the difference in that as first appeared (as thought forms) in what is known as Atlantis, and that as man appearing from those projections in the five places -- and, as has been given, from their environ took on that as became necessary for the meeting of those varying conditions under which their individualities and personalities began to put on form) -- one in the white, another in the brown, another in the black, another in the red. These, as we find, taking that form -- Would snow be the place for the black? or the sun the place for the white? or the desert and the hills for the white or the black? as were partakers of those things that brought about those variations in that which enters, or becomes as the outer presentation, or the skin, or the pigment that is presented in same.

Q. Did the appearance of the five races occur simultaneously?

A. Occurred at once.

Q. Describe the earth's surface at the period of the five projections?

A. This has been given. In the first, or that known as the beginning, or in the Caucasian and Carpathian, or the Garden of Eden, in that land which lies now much in the desert, yet much in mountain and much in rolling lands there. The extreme northern portions were then the southern portions, or the polar regions were then turned to where they occupied more of the tropical and semi-tropical regions; hence it would be hard to discern or discriminate the change. The Nile entered into the Atlantic Ocean. What is now the Sahara was an inhabited land and very fertile. What is now the central portion of this country, or the Mississippi basin, was then all in the ocean; only the plateau was existent, or the regions that are now portions of Nevada, Utah and Arizona formed the greater part of what we know as the United States. That along the Atlantic board formed the outer portion then, or the lowlands of Atlantis. The Andean, or the Pacific coast of South America, occupied then the extreme portion of Lemuria. The Urals and the northern regions of same were turned into a tropical land. The desert in the Mongolian land was then the fertile portion. This may enable you to form some concept of the status of the earth's representation at that time! The oceans were then turned about; they no longer bear their names, yet from whence obtained they their names? What is the legend, even as to their names?

Q. Are the following the correct places? Atlantean, the red?

A. Atlantean and American, the red race.

Q. Upper Africa for the black?

A. Or what would be known now as the more western portion of upper Egypt for the black. You see, with the changes -- when there came the uprisings in the Atlantean land, and the sojourning southward -- with the turning of the axis -- the white and yellow races came into that portion of Egypt, India, Persia and Arabia.

Fascinating Hollywood11

I always assumed that the missing part of that would have been the Polynesians since Thor proved they could sale great distances, any follow up info on them being the missing link so to speak.
No Pun intended


[edit on 10-6-2008 by SLAYER69]

more about why DNA doesn't prove humans came from africa, only some. Million year old beta globin gene found only in Asians-
www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...

Archaic African and Asian lineages in the genetic ancestry of modern humans.
R M Harding, S M Fullerton, R C Griffiths, J Bond, M J Cox, J A Schneider, D S Moulin, and J B Clegg
MRC Molecular Haematology Unit, Institute of Molecular Medicine, John Radcliffe Hospital, Oxford, United Kingdom. [email protected]

Abstract
A 3-kb region encompassing the beta-globin gene has been analyzed for allelic sequence polymorphism in nine populations from Africa, Asia, and Europe. A unique gene tree was constructed from 326 sequences of 349 in the total sample. New maximum-likelihood methods for analyzing gene trees on the basis of coalescence theory have been used. The most recent common ancestor of the beta-globin gene tree is a sequence found only in Africa and estimated to have arisen approximately 800,000 years ago. There is no evidence for an exponential expansion out of a bottlenecked founding population, and an effective population size of approximately 10,000 has been maintained. Modest differences in levels of beta-globin diversity between Africa and Asia are better explained by greater African effective population size than by greater time depth. There may have been a reduction of Asian effective population size in recent evolutionary history. Characteristically Asian ancestry is estimated to be older than 200,000 years, suggesting that the ancestral hominid population at this time was widely dispersed across Africa and Asia. Patterns of beta-globin diversity suggest extensive worldwide late Pleistocene gene flow and are not easily reconciled with a unidirectional migration out of Africa 100,000 years ago and total replacement of archaic populations in Asia.

also
www.sciencenews.org...

Templeton's views on human evolution spark heated debate. But reservations about the power of current DNA studies to describe human evolution are not uncommon.

Mountain, who views accumulated genetic evidence as moderately supportive of a recent African origin for humanity, still sees a pressing need for improved analyses of large DNA samples.

"Far too often, anthropological geneticists draw conclusions about human evolutionary history without testing hypotheses or exploring alternate models," Mountain remarks. "In some cases, this is because data are insufficient. In other cases, the immediate impression generated by the data blinds us to alternatives."

Hammer, who remains undecided on how modern humans evolved, suspects that investigators will increasingly experiment with statistical formulas for weighing the contributions of natural selection and other factors to DNA diversity.

"Over the next 10 years, more complex genetic models will emerge," Hammer says. "DNA research has not solved the mystery of human origins."

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Fascinating Hollywood11

I always assumed that the missing part of that would have been the polinsions since Thor proved they could sale great distances, any follow up info on them being the missing link so to speak.
No Pun intended

I dunno, but I remember something about Thor Heirdhal finding central american style pyramids on the canary islands

[edit on 10-6-2008 by Hollywood11]

Hey Hollywood. I enjoyed your thread. It took me a while too digest. I will read again and try to educate myself in this matter.

S and F

Peace
Whiteraven

Cool, yeah there's alot of depth here

I remember that on one of the Canary Islands (I think that's right but it may have been the Azores) they had a unique whistling language. I wish I could recall more about it, but this thread jostled the memory of it.

I know some Onandaga who were a part of a genetic study, and they were in this X-Haplogroup. They weren't surprised because they had stories about their ancestors that in part pointed to the East not the West.

Haha, a whistling language is kinda interesting

Again, the history books don't really know much and can't explain human history accurately.

THANK you

Great thread

Multiple Starred and Flagged


This is one I'll be coming back to read and save



Thanks again

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Again, the history books don't really know much and can't explain human history accurately.

Good post...I totally agree with you on history. History seams a construct from society and not the other way around. Really enjoyed...Peace

Indeed, the culture someone is indoctrinated in is what determines how they will view the world. For example, archaeologists and anthropolgists are trained to assign ritualistic meanings to all ancient artifacts because they believe all ancient people were primitive and superitious.

awesome thread, thank you for posting this. starred and flagged. I like to think if humans truly understood their history, the real history, not the history written by kings and conquerors, or outdated history that was honest, but still not wide enough in its scope to liberate the student from bias - that humans would realize not only that we are all in the same boat, (duh?!) but also the sorts of things we should avoid, things that cause negative attributes of history to repeat. ♥

reply to post by Hollywood11


No, scientists seek to uncover knowledge. They don't make assumptions. Nothing a scientist believes is based on indoctrination, but on the ability to study the evidence suggesting said belief.

Just because that makes your ability to believe things without any evidence look silly, you have to try to conflate your position and that of science so you don't look ridiculous.

And you failed.

Interesting thread. I bring to your discussion further proof. I am a native american of the Ojibway tribe on a reservation in northern Wisconsin. We call ourselves the Aniishinabe. Broken down into English it means Anii (from whence) shin (was lowered) abe (male of the species). I posted this prophecy in it's own thread on ats. It was passed down verbally and I found a web page very close to what I was taught. It can also be used to connect with your information. It confirms one of Edgar Cayce's migration routes. Added are native comments on their interpretation of these prophecies. I will also include the ojibway migration story. Many will find that so called legends and myths are indeed rooted in fact.

Teachings of the Seven Prophets: The Seven Fires

Seven prophets came to the Anishinabe. They came at a time when the people were living a full and peaceful life on the North Eastern coast of North America. These prophets left the people with seven predictions of what the future would bring. Each of the prophecies was called a fire and each fire referred to a particular era of time that would come in the future. Thus, the teachings of the seven prophets are now called the "Seven Fires".

The first prophet said to the people, "In the time of the First Fire, the Anishinabe nation will rise up and follow the sacred shell of the Midewiwin Lodge. The Midewiwin Lodge will serve as a rallying point for the people and its traditional ways will be the source of much strength. The Sacred Megis will lead the way to the chosen ground of the Anishinabe. You are to look for a turtle shaped island that is linked to the purification of the earth. You will find such an island at the beginning and end of your journey. There will be seven stopping places along the way. You will know the chosen ground has been reached when you come to a land where food grows on water. If you do not move you will be destroyed."

The second prophet told the people, "You will know the Second Fire because at this time the nation will be camped by a large body of water. In this time the direction of the Sacred Shell will be lost. The Midewiwin will diminish in strength. A boy will be born to point the way back to the traditional ways. He will show the direction to the stepping stones to the future of the Anishinabe people."

The third prophet said to the people, "In the Third Fire the Anishinabe will find the path to their chosen ground, a land in the west to which they must move their families. This will be the land where food grounds on water."

The Fourth Fire was originally given to the people by two prophets. They come as one. They told of the coming of the light skinned race. One of the prophets said, "You will know the future of out people by the face of the light skinned race wears. If they come wearing the face of brotherhood then there will come a time of wonderful change for generations to come. They will bring new knowledge and articles that can be joined with the knowledge of this country. In this way, two nations will join to make a mighty nation. This new nation will be joined by two more so that four will for the mightiest nation of all. You will know the face of the brotherhood if the light skinned race comes carrying no weapons, if they come bearing only their knowledge and a hand shake." The other prophet said, "Beware if the light skinned race comes wearing the face of death. You must be careful because the face of brotherhood and the face of death look very much alike. If they come carrying a weapon ... beware. If they come in suffering ... They could fool you. Their hearts may be filled with greed for the riches of this land. If they are indeed your brothers, let them prove it. Do not accept then in total trust. You shall know that the face they wear is one of death if the rivers run with poison and fish become unfit to eat. You shall know them by these many things."

The fifth prophet said, "In the time of the Fifth Fire there will come a time of great struggle that will grip the lives of all native people. At the waring of this Fire there will come among the people one who holds a promise of great joy and salvation. If the people accept this promise of a new way and abandon the old teachings, then the struggle of the Fifth Fire will be will be with the people for many generations. The promise that comes will prove to be a false promise. All those who accept this promise will cause the near destruction of the people."

The prophet of the Sixth Fire said, "In the time of the Sixth Fire it will be evident that the promise of the First Fire cam in in a false way. Those deceived by this promise will take their children aways from the teachings of the Elders. Grandsons and granddaughters will turn against the Elders. In this way the Elders will lose their reason for living ... they will lose their purpose in life. At this time a new sickness will come among the people. The balance of may people will be disturbed. The cup of life will almost become the cup of grief." At the time of these predictions, many people scoffed at the prophets. They then had medicines to keep away sickness. They were then healthy and happy as a people. These were the people who chose to stay behind in the great migration of the Anishinabe.

These people were the first to have contact with the light skinned race. They would suffer most. In the confusing times of the Sixth Fire, it is said that a group of visionaries came among the Anishinabe. They gathered all the priests of the Midewiwin Lodge. They told the priests of the Midewiwin Way was in danger of being destroyed. They gathered all the sacred bundles. They gathered all the scrolls that recorded the ceremonies. All these things were placed in a hollowed out log from the Ironwood tree. Men were lowered over a cliff by long ropes. They dug a hole in the cliff and buried the log where no one could find it. Thus the teachings of the Elders were hidden out of sight but not out of memory. It is said that when the time came that the Indian people could practice their religion without fear a line boy would dream where the Ironwood log, full of sacred bundles and scrolls, was buried. He would lead his people to the place.

The seventh prophet that came to the people long ago said to be different from the other prophets. He was young and had a strange light in his eyes. He said, "In the time of the Seventh Fire New People will emerge. They will retrace their steps to find what was left by the trail. Their steps will take them to the Elders who they will ask to guide them on their journey. But many of the Elders will have fallen asleep. They will awaken to this new time with nothing to offer. Some of the Elders will be silent because no one will ask anything of them.

The New People will have to be careful in how they approach the Elders. The task of the New People will not be easy. "If the New People will remain strong in their quest the Water Drum of the Midewiwin Lodge will again sound its voice. There will be a rebirth of the Anishinabe Nation and a rekindling of old flames. The Sacred Fire will again be lit. "It is this time that the light skinned race will be given a choice between two roads. If they choose the right road, then the Seventh Fire will light the Eighth and final Fire, an eternal fire of peace, love brotherhood and sisterhood. If the light skinned race makes the wrong choice of the roads, then the destruction which they brought with then in coming to this country will come back at them and cause much suffering and death to all the Earth's people."

www.wabanaki.com...





Migration of the Ojibwe to the New Land

When the seven prophets came to the Ojibwe with instructions about life from Creator, the People were living in the east on the shores of the Great Salt Water. There were so many people that these words have been told through generations, "The people were so many and powerful that if one was to climb the highest mountain and look in all directions, they would not be able to see the end of the Ojibwe nation." Life was full and there was ample food from the land and sea. Because life was so full, some amongst the People doubted the migration predictions of the prophets and there was much discussion about the migration and the prophecies of the Seven Fires. Huge gatherings were held to discuss the plans. Many didn't want to leave, many did and there was one group who supported the migration but agreed to stay behind and guard the eastern doorway and care for the eastern fire of the people. They were called the Daybreak People. (Today some believe these are the people on the east coast of Canada and the USA known as the Wabanaki. The Passamaquoddy are a part of the Wabanaki.)

So, those believing in the migration started off, traveling first to the island shaped like a turtle, as the first prophet instructed. (This area is probably somewhere on the St. Lawrence River around present day Montreal.) There were many ceremonies held there as the people sought instructions. After some time the People began their journey west again. Along the way some clans and families stopped and set up permanent camps. It is now believed that the People continuing moved along the southern shore of the St. Lawrence River and that their second major stop was around what is know today as Niagra Falls.

From here they traveled to what is today Lakes Huron and Erie. It is here that the Ojibwe and Iroquois confronted each other. The dispute was later settled when the Iroquois gave the Ojibwe a Wampum Belt made of a special shell. The Pipe was shared and a peace was sealed. The People began moving westward again and stopped when they came to a large body of fresh water as explained in the prophecy. (This was probably along the eastern shore of Lake Michigan.) At this point many went off in search of a way across the water. Some went south and others settled down to wait for more instructions. Generations passed until the People were instructed to travel North. Eventually they stopped at the place where "food grows on water," as told in another prophecy. More and more Ojibwe came to the largest island in this area (now known as Manitoulin Island) until this area became known as the capital of the Ojibwe nation.

For some time the People stayed on this island, but then many set off to what is now the Sault Ste. Marie area. Because of the large abundance of food in the area many people settled here also and this became the fifth stopping place of the migration. From here the People split into two large groups - one group following the northern shore of (Lake Superior) another large body of water and another followed the southern shore.

The northern group settled on an island (today known as Spirit Island) at the west end of the big lake. Some of the southern group also settled here where they found "the food that grows on water," (wild rice) believed to be a sacred gift from Creator. This became the sixth major stopping place of the Ojibwe people. But, something was still missing. One of the prophets had spoken of a turtle-shaped island at the end of their journey. The southern group had seen such an island on their journey. The People returned and settled on the island known today as Madeline Island), calling it Mo-ning-wun-a-dawn-ing or "the place that was dug".

www.wabanaki.com...

reply to post by Hollywood11


Um...none of this actually proves anything about anything. You're just posting insanely massive chunks of suppositions and speculations that have no evidential backing.

The 'out of Africa' theory? That's supported by massive amounts of fossil and genetic evidence. I can provide you with academic papers that give this evidence. There is physical proof for the established status quo. Now, where's the "DNA evidence" that supposedly "rocks the boat"? I just want the actual piece of scientific research that supposedly changes everything.

Oh, and that PubMed article you cited? Try reading it over again...actually, just try reading from page 779-782...or I'll just quote p782 myself:

Our conclusions from this study of the allelic beta-globlin sequences are that there has been substantial mutidirectional global gene flow within the last 100,000 years and that modern humans have both African and Asian ancestry dating to >200,000 years ago. We infer an earlier evolution and dispersal out of Africa by ancestors of modern humans indicated by some interpretations of the fossil data (Stringer and Andrews 1988) and, therefore, inclusion in the ancestral gene pool of non-African populations groups identified morphologically as archaic or pre-sapiens.

reply to post by psychedeliack


Yes...the real history. The ramblings of some dude who sat on a couch and started making crap up. The dude who predicted all sorts of things...that never came to pass.