Ruby Shot Real or Agent Extraction Ruse?

Friday night (June 6, 08) on coasttocoastam George Noory did his usual open lines program. Tonight, Monday night, I happened to catch a snatch of the program rebroadcast from Friday night. Here's what one caller was talking about.

The caller said that his father had been a personal friend of the two Dallas cops that escorted "Oswald" through the police station underground the day that Ruby shot him. These cops had told him that the man they escorted through the garage was not "Oswald". He said that "Oswald's" passage through the garage had been planned like a football play, with Ruby allowed to break through the line at just the right moment.

He also seemed to imply that "Oswald" had been shot with a blank charge and that the charge's wadding can be seen in the famous news footage. He said that once "Oswald" is shot he basically disappears in a pile of bodies. No Academy Awards style acting required.

I wanted to get a reaction from Jim, or anyone else, to that story.

We all know from Jim's work and the work of others, that the guy shot by Ruby in Dallas was not Lee Oswald. But at the level that the "coast" caller would be talking, the level of the Dallas detectives, is it possible that the Ruby incident was a ruse by ONI or CIA to extract their man from Dallas, in cooperation with the police? Especially considering the fact that there was so much skullduggery associated with "Oswald's" gravesite.

[edit on 9-6-2008 by ipsedixit]

Here's an embed of the newreel footage. Further along there is a still of Oswald reacting to the shot. I can't see the wadding anywhere. It's hard to know what to make of the coast caller's story. Maybe it's just bad information or maybe mixed up in some way.

Google Video Link

Here is a link to another newsreel angle:

www.dailymotion.com...



[edit on 11-6-2008 by ipsedixit]

Howdy ipsedixit,

Today, with all the concentrated government power along with computer generated IDs, photos and film, it might be possible to concoct a scenario such as the one you describe in which Oswald's death was faked. But in the reality of 1963, I don't believe this was possible. I have personally met many of the people directly involved in the assassination - including Dr. Charles Crenshaw, the physician who unsuccessfully tried to save Oswald's life and Paul Groody, the funeral home director who buried him - and I assure you that the Oswald fatally shot in Dallas died there. However, this does leave open the question of the identity of that Oswald. There is significant evidence that the Oswald killed in Dallas was not the same Oswald born in New Orleans in 1938. But that is a different issue. Please see the chapter entitled "Was Oswald Really Oswald?" in my book "Crossfire." There has never been a true cover-up in the JFK assassination, in that there is a lack of information and evidence. The cover has been accomplished through obfuscation - clouding the issue so that most people just want to forget about it. This story of Oswald escaping death seems to be to fall into that category.

Jim Marrs

reply to post by Jim Marrs

Oswald is one of the most confusing characters in modern history. I haven't read Crossfire yet. I'm relying on JFK: Autopsie d'un Crime D'Etat by William Reymond. According to him there is even conflicting testamony with regard to Oswald's physical characteristics from those who knew him as a child. Some say he was a skinny runt and some say he was big for his age.

I'm wondering if there was a third individual involved whose body wound up in the Oswald grave. Not Harvey, not Lee, but some plant who could never be positively identified as anybody. This story is just so cuckoo. I cannot understand how the fake Oswald could ever have fooled his own brother, especially since he didn't even look much like the original Lee from New Orleans.

The whole thing is surreal. Sometimes when one is reading about the various interconnections between characters big and small, the impression given is that the population of Dallas in 1963 was only 35 people and they were all either in on it or working at the Carosel Club.

An interesting thing in the Reymond book is the story of Oswald's aborted attempt to call his handler in some intelligence agency. An attempt that was prevented by the Secret Service.

I would like to think that ONI or somebody could have reached into the maelstrom and plucked him out but it is difficult to imagine Jack Ruby as the instrument of a plan like that.

Incidentally, I looked again at the footage of the assassination embedded above. Toward the end of the video, in the slo-mo section, there is a replay of the shot from another angle. They freeze-frame Oswald's reaction to the shot and if you look just to the right of his nose (his left), there is a light colored vertical blur blocking that part of his face.

I wonder if this is what the coast caller was calling "wadding" from a blank charge.Obviously it's hard to tell what the blur really is. I hadn't seen it before in the other times I looked at this footage.


[edit on 23-9-2008 by ipsedixit]

Howdy ipsedixit,

You are correct in that Lee Harvey Oswald is one of the most confusing characters in recent history. Even Lyndon Johnson called him "interesting" and he ought to know. There is not enough space here to detail all the available evidence but it appears as if "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a "legend" concocted by US Intelligence. I recall his mother, Marguerite, telling me about the time that Lee returned home from junior high school in the company of a military officer who told her that Lee was a sharp kid, a self-motivator and just the kind of person they were looking for. This means that the military and/or Intelligence had their eye on Oswald since he was a young teenager.

A book by John Armstrong entitled "Harvey and Lee" fully documents that fact that there were actually two Oswald's -- one the husky all-American boy who was born in New Orleans and the other a skinnier guy who spoke perfect Russian. The skinny one was the man who returned from Russia and was killed by Jack Ruby in Dallas. Armstrong's book clearly demonstrates that these two kids were brought together in the Marines where their identities were switched, allowing the skinny Harvey to enter Russia as Lee for intelligence purposes. After his assignment in Russia, Harvey returned with his Russian wife and continued the Lee impersonation right up to the time of the assassination. He was the perfect patsy in that he was connected to the Russians, Cubans, anti-Castro Cubans, FBI, CIA, the Mafia and the military. Everyone had to run for cover and participate in the cover-up. Up til now most people could not be brought to believe that there was a conspiracy in the assassination much less that Oswald was not the birth Oswald, so the cover-up held for more than 40 years. Two tidbits of information that most people - even serious assassination researchers -- don't know is that his mother questioned the identity of her own son as far back as 1967 even asking for an exhumation of his grave and in 1960 no less than FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover warned the State Department that an imposter was using Oswald's birth certificate. It's all very dark and ugly which is why no one desiring the good graces of the Establishment has ventured to reveal the truth.

Jim Marrs

reply to post by Jim Marrs


Mysteriouser and mysteriouser.

Thanks for your response Jim. I'm convinced there is something very, very ugly at the heart of the Oswald story, even without the assassination.

The reference to high school days and a military officer with young Lee puts me in mind of MKUltra and the Kay Griggs interview. I don't know when that program actually started, but there must have been precurser flirtations with mind control within the intelligence apparatus ever since the cold war started.

I wonder if the whole Oswald family were targets of manipulation in more ways than the substitution of a son/brother for someone else.

Back for an edit:

It's quite common nowadays, at least up here in the American attic, for old cases of sexual abuse, sometimes dating back twenty or thirty years to come out in the courts, when adults, having gone through years of psychological torture finally get up enough courage to face their abusers.

Of course predation and abuse will happen, given the spread of sexual orientations in society together with society's somewhat tense attitude to all things sexual anyway. But is there a more sinister subgroup within these cases that has a much darker character?

Someone at Oswald's school must have connected him to the military. Are there people in grade schools and high schools who act as spotters for the military and intelligence apparatus, looking for vulnerable and possibly maladjusted children that these groups might find useful?

Is it possible that sexual predators are actually maintained in place for this purpose by organisations within government?


[edit on 30-9-2008 by ipsedixit]