Over 40 Million Dead Babies - Will Either Obama Or McCain Stop The American Abortion Holocaust?

Good grief ! Has this thread been placed on the red-alert list of the Right to Lifers ?

So much 'religious' input !

Fact is, there is currently no greater an 'abortion holocaust' now than there was 100, 200, 1,000 years ago. People have always sought to terminate unwanted, unplanned pregnancies and will continue to do so until they're free to enjoy sex without fear of reproducing. People want sex far more and far more often than they desire children.

There are now in excess of 6.5 billion individuals on this planet and that number is unsustainable.

People do not plan to have a child every time they jump into bed. Ask them. And record their voices in the aftermath (that's if they ever see each other again. She: ' Oh no! I think I'm pregnant '.
He: ' Damn, she says she's pregnant man'.

People do NOT want the children they produce in at least 50% of pregnancies. The vast majority of people on this planet were not planned or cause for joyful excitement when their parents (married or otherwise) learned they were on the way. They are the result of two people deciding to have sex and that's all.

A massive percentage of people marry simply because they've conceived a child. Shotgun weddings. Forced into marriage because a baby was on the way. Those who don't marry are the parents of the untold millions of illegitimate children, worldwide.

When a man meets a woman in a bar, does he say to himself: ' Man, I'm going to make a baby tonight ' ? Why not go and ask all those men out there each and every night, looking to score ?

When a woman agrees to sex with a man, does she say to herself: ' Boy, hope I fall pregnant from doing this ' ? Why not go ask a few women if that's foremost on their mind when they go on a date ?

People ARE animals. Our animal ancestry is apparent in our physical and psychological make-up. Proven. Vestigal tails. Hirsutism. Webbed feet and hands. Tailbones. Eustachian tubes, etc.

Nature's only requirement of us is that we reproduce ourselves (replace ourselves with the next generation) before we die. Dandelions reproduce. So does grass. And ants. Dogs. Cats. Slugs. Reproduction does not require intelligence. It's easy. That's why everything can do it.

Takes a tiny bit of organisation to utilize birth control methods. And obviously a tiny bit of organisation is too much of a stretch for most .. hence that 6.6 billion.

Amazing. People can operate reasonably complicated technology whilst driving through peak hour traffic, but taking a tiny birth control pill or wearing a simple condom is just too much trouble .. too difficult .. to hard to remember. Hence that 6.6 billion.

People don't want more babies or even any babies. They want sex. Having a baby is seen as the 'price' paid for having sex .. the 'punishment', in many instances.

Abortions are what happens when people do not WANT to have a baby, do not WANT to 'have to get married', do not WANT to interrupt their career or studies or travel or life generally.

That's the way it is and the way it always has been. And no amount of preaching is going to change that. Obama isn't going to change it, or McCain. It would be like trying to turn the tide. They can't even come up with half-decent policies or a way to feed those already walking around.

The only way to decrease the number of abortions is to offer people a more efficient birth control method .. and offer incentives for its use.

If we use abortion as a means of population control, then what's to stop us from killing the newborn babies at the hospitals, especially the ones in incubators?
Many DO claim that a human life is defined as a human being which can survive on its own.
Newborn babies themselves can't survive on their own and have not "already lived their lives." Plenty of fresh, ripe babies are born each day for us to kill for "population control."
Be sure to pick up a scythe on the way to the hospital for your grim reaping population control.

The statement that you shouldn't enforce your beliefs on others is ludicrous since the formation of national laws that govern the entire body of people is in itself enforcing beliefs on others. The Supreme Court, for example, involves making a choice on an issue and creating that choice into a rule that enforces a belief on others.

This whole abortion argument isn't even an issue of controlling a women's choice. It's about the way we are now viewing humanity. We're proud of ourselves, our own accomplishments and money yet we degrade our entire race and species for personal gain. What does it mean to be human now? Is being human as worthless as ink on a whiteboard we can simply erase because we "made a mistake." (The choice of being pregnant or not begins when you have sex. Abortions by rape or incest are only at 1%) Have we no respect for what kinds of beings we are?
We are the species that survived the Ice Age. That created mathematical systems. That hunted prey and became top of the food chain.
We are kings of the Earth yet we continue to trample on the most precious of our species: new life. Just because the world is #ty is no excuse to prevent a life from entering it. In fact, what's the stop you from killing yourself since the world is the way it is? And what have YOU been doing about the state of the world? Don't give me some lame, selfish excuse. If you say the world sucks, do something about it, no matter how large or small the scale.
The question isn't when it's "alive." That can't be answered.
The question is whether it's human or not. No matter how old it is, that thing in your womb is human. It's not a plant. It's not a tire. It's a human because it was made from human sperm and human egg and deserves to be treated with the basic human dignity rights belonging to every individual.
We praise society and fortune and happiness. That's not wrong.
Did you forget that the base for all of this is simply being alive?

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, sadder in this world than the spectre of the unwanted child. In many cases, the unwanted child becomes the unloved child and so many walking this planet today are wrestling with the wounds.

Growing up barely tolerated by people who grudgingly agreed to have you is nothing compared to horror of being raised by people forced to have you.

Besides the devastation on a personal level, the global and societal implications of so many unwanted and unloved Humans walking the planet is terrifying in its scope. The environmental concerns expressed above are the tip of the iceberg.

There can be no good of it -- none.

And why would this nightmare be forced upon the population of this planet? So that a few men can wield power and control and line their pockets through their handy, dandy make-you-feel-bad religion?

Insanity!

reply to post by argilla11


So abortion is often a mercy killing? If you are unwanted be deprived of life so you can never experience even the possibility of love? Should this be extended, what if there's a whole nation of people that nobody particularly loves, what if they exist in isolated regions of a particular country, that country doesn't want them, neither do the neighbouring countries, they can't even exist peacfully among themselves, shall we mercifully kill them so they won't experience the trauma of being unwanted? Tramps as well, those lonely old men with nothing but cheap liquer to keep them warm shall we mercifully kill them too? Anyone else to add to the list to receive your mercy?

reply to post by argilla11


Nothing sadder?
What if the mother killed that child?
Like an abortion.
At LEAST this child who was abused all it's life(which is against the law)
grows up and makes their OWN life for them selves.

reply to post by argilla11


What about the children who WERE wanted and go on later to disappoint their mother and dad so badly that they BECOME unwanted?
OR WORSE,
What about an orphan whose parents died and they were adopted by pedophiles?

[edit on 29-10-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by LiquidMirage . . . Joseph Mengele performed "legitimate” medical procedures too. Are you going to defend that butcher as well? Something tells me you would as long as it advances your liberal agenda.

I'm puzzled. I thought Republicans wanted less government and more freedom. I've heard many Republicans blaming Liberals for wanting more regulation and less freedom. So what makes this issue an exception for Republicans?

Is it the fact that only the poor need legal abortions because the rich can always get one anyway?

Is this someone trying to enforce their religions on everyone, like Sharia law?

Do republicans want more babies produced so they can have their pick of them to adopt, and the rest can grow up as abundant cleaners and cannon-fodder to further the interests of the rich?

Do Republicans want poor women enslaved from a young age as continual mothers, never able to help their children succeed because they are forever having more?


Celibacy within a marriage is not often an option. Sex is a natural part of a bonding relationship, and few men will stay around if the women won't let them in her bed. And most children are better off if their father stays around.

Birth control is far less effective that most people think. My mother used 7 different methods of birth control, and has a child to show for each. My first pregnancy were caused by incestuous rape at 13. As an adult, determined to never have children, I carefully used multiple prevention methods at once, however even that way I got pregnant 3 more times. Two of these were while married to a husband who wanted sex and no children and he tried to kill them afterward, so I had to leave him and endure the hatred one gets from society for being a single mother on a pension with 3 children. This was complicated by them each having a different handicap and one having brain damage from shaking.

I could have aborted my children, but chose not to. Instead, my children and I have been through hell trying to survive and build a happy family life together. And guess who the people were who spat in my face, tried to shame me in public by telling everyone I was a single mother and expecting me to humbly apologise for my situation?

THE BLASTED CHRISTIAN RIGHT-TO-LIFERS, THAT'S WHO!

Abortion is a heartbreaking business, but only the woman herself can decide what's right in her case, because often it's a tragic choice between the lessor of two evils. If a woman needs one, the more quickly and easily she can have one the better.

If people are worried about abortions being performed at 26 weeks, do what I have done. Fight for abortions to be available early, with no waiting time. If you're against abortion altogether, stop misleading people by showing pictures of 6 month old fetuses.

I love my children and believe myself blessed to have them. However I'm bloody glad I had them by choice, and they were not forced on me by the state. I will never support any politician who tries to make abortion more difficult to get.


Btw, first baby miscarried, which stopped my Christian parents from killing me to prevent the shame this would bring on their family. (There was no abortion available back then.) As with cases we have heard of from the Muslim community, I was quite willing to swallow the poison they had for me because I loved them and didn't want to keep living if that would ruin all their lives.

2nd btw, this trouble all started through the unavailability of abortion. My mother, like mothers of others who've posted here, knew she could not look after a fifth child in her fifth year of marriage, so tried to cause a miscarriage. Then she tried infanticide by starvation. She has yelled at me a long list of all the other things she tried.
I believe her guilt did the rest.

I have to say the abortion issue is the biggest farce i have ever seen, people will let a child be born to drug adicts or into a situation where there abused or killed by there crappy parents, but they flip out if you mention abortion..

Now im not one to say kill babies but really a uthinized death before fully developed or a terrable life growing up to become abusers themselfs.. or into the baby markets, we looked at adoption, its 20-60 thousands dollars to adopt a baby.. that's just plain out selling babies...

I ask you whats worse.. really all options are terrible.. any way you look at it..

However i don't think any politician should dictate what a person does health wise... other wise they will force people to eat certain ways, take certain drugs/shots and not do certain activities that may potentially damage your health.. that's way to close to utter all out slavery for me, not that were not slaves economically now with taxes being forced a upon us with threat of death or imprisonment and stealing your property.

Originally posted by Supercertari
reply to post by argilla11

 

So abortion is often a mercy killing? If you are unwanted be deprived of life so you can never experience even the possibility of love? Should this be extended, what if there's a whole nation of people that nobody particularly loves, what if they exist in isolated regions of a particular country, that country doesn't want them, neither do the neighbouring countries, they can't even exist peacfully among themselves, shall we mercifully kill them so they won't experience the trauma of being unwanted? Tramps as well, those lonely old men with nothing but cheap liquer to keep them warm shall we mercifully kill them too? Anyone else to add to the list to receive your mercy?

I believe we survive death of the flesh and aren't deprived of anything except a "meat suit." All possibilities remain open.


The remainder of your arguments are specious.

OMG, the OP can't be serious. We need to seriously prevent the population from increasing at the rate it has been. there's already not enough resources for everyone.. every time you pop out a kid, you reduce the quality of life for everyone else.

reply to post by k-string


how selfish
how about the fact that nearly half of all the food in US goes wasted?
American problems are drenching in connection with one another. Can't simply blame the president or capitalism.

if population is such a big problem, US should implement limits to raising children and should tax you for having kids over that limit.

Obama DOES NOT AGREE WITH INFANTACIDE before you fling such inflamatory and hurtful comments note that a child must be BORN to be killed and infanticide charged. I hate sites that take a serious subject and fling half truths, inflamatory lies and damatory charges at candidates whom are not around to defend themselves. It is the height of ignorance and fear mongering.

Abortion has been around as long as women have been getting pregnant and like it or not, it is not a religious rite to defame women who have them nor to attack political candidates whom support a woman's right to control her own body. Neither is this a gender issue. Many men support wormen in making their own choice. Ultimately, the responsibility for rearing and caring for that child will be the single moms. Some fare well but most ultimately, live in poverty and struggle to give a better life to their child.

I support a woman's right to choose though the act of abortion is repugnant to me I would support to the death a woman's right to choose what happens to her own body even if I totally disagreed. It is at the centre of freedom of choice and autonomy over one's own body.

I bet the same people who are against abortion are the ones who are pro-gun rights. It is an irong that always gets to me. Ethics is a scary grey area of philosophy that these people have lost sight of. A happy parent

reply to post by jamie83
Correction she chose to have an abortion because she was not married.

bs (barry soetoro) Loves abortion! Kill those babies! If they happen to survive the attempetd murder, he likes to put em somewhere~ a room or trash can; wherever, till they die!

www.foxnews.com...
SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Barack Obama's abortion voting record continues to come under fire. Now it centers around his controversial decision not to vote for the Born Alive Infant Protection Act when he was a state senator in Illinois. The act provided legal rights to babies that survived botched late-term abortions.

Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act

www.citizenlink.org...

Too bad so many mexicxan illegals are dropping anchors every nine months whilst American babies are mass murdered in lieu of birth control! The American popluation is Fast becoming a miniorty; especially the male population for some reason..

Abortion Kills Baby Humans ...

[edit on 15-11-2008 by AmericanDaughter]

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


Seriously? That post should be deleted.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Why? It's true. Obama loves abortion; look it up.
As far as the illegals and anchor babies; that's also true and a big drain in every way ...
As far as Americans becoming a minority:
article.nationalreview.com...
Did you see those demographic stats in the New York Times last week?
The Census Bureau estimated yesterday that from July 1, 2005 to July 1, 2006, the nation’s minority population grew to 100.7 million from 98.3 million... Nearly half the children under age 5 are Hispanic, black or Asian... 80 percent of Americans over age 60 are non-Hispanic whites, compared with only 60 percent among those in their 20s and 30s, and 58 percent among people younger than 20...
(Some of the quotes in what follows are from the NYT story; the others are from the actual U.S. Census Bureau news release from which the story is abstracted.)

America needs to stop this infantacide and neither obama nor mccain want to stop it.

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


Obama does not love abortion or killing babies. It's argumentative fallacy called a straw man. Look it up if you need to.

And why are you so worried about more minorities coming here? What are you afraid of? Would it be so bad to have a Mexican, a black person, and an Asian-American in your neighborhood?

You're the reason this is happening:

Hate Crimes Surge in U.S. after Obama Election: Experts

I know you don't care, but the point still remains valid.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Irish M1ck

Yes, Sadly Obama does love abortion/killing babies. His voting record is very clear:
As an Illinois State Senator, Barack Obama opposed the Illinois Born Alive Infants Protection Act. The legislation defined any infant born alive as a "person” who deserves full legal protection.
www.bornalivetruth.org...

ppaurora.blogspot.com...
excerpts:
A letter from Planned Parenthood/Chicago Area President and CEO, Steve Trombley:
I’m here to set the record straight about Barack Obama’s record on reproductive choice. Barack Obama has always been committed to a woman’s right to choose. He has a 100% pro-choice voting record both in My organization has not made an endorsement yet because we have two solidly 100% pro-choice candidates running for President. However, we feel it is important to defend Senator Obama (or any candidate) who has stood with us to protect our precious reproductive freedoms.
the U.S. Senate and the Illinois Senate
Obama & Live Birth Abortion / Induced Labor Abortions / Infanticide Pro-Life Anti-Abortion Video
www.youtube.com...

I have no problem what so ever with minorities or anyone coming here; the Legal way. Every country in the world has border laws for good reason.
Immigration Gumballs
www.youtube.com...

I am not part of any hate crime surge as my gay or my Asian, Mexican or even my white friends would tell you.
I do care I care about America and it's constitution! I do care deeply about murdered babies and your point is your's but to many, it isn't valid.




[edit on 20-11-2008 by AmericanDaughter]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by AmericanDaughter]

[edit on 20-11-2008 by AmericanDaughter]

reply to post by AmericanDaughter


If Obama loves killing babies then surely you must have evidence of him murdering them. Funny how his kids survived his tyrannical baby-killing ways. Either that, or do you always exaggerate things to get the point across?

You're basically saying half (or more?) of this country loves killing babies. I think they might be interested to know you label them that way.

Are you one of those people who goes to any liberal rally just to hold up pictures of fetuses?

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]