The EU is this what you want

Originally posted by Europe
reply to post by Bun-G

 

It appears to you that an english man is right when you are probably english and cant take the FACT that england has been commiting genocide in Ireland for 800 years.

How on earth has England been committing genocide in Ireland for the last 80years?
You have been independant for that long; are you not masters of your own destiny?

Your incessant whining and moaning and abdication of responsibility, which seems to manifest in a constant need to blame others, is reminiscent of the behaviour of a spoilt, childish brat.
You are possibly one of the biggest bigot's I have come across on these boards who has allowed political dogma mar your ability to enter any sort of reasoned debate.

The EU treaty isn't democratic.....

Europe
The simple fact that people are voting on it makes it so ya numpty.

The Lisbon Treaty, signed last December, is an amendment to the proposed European Union constitution that was quashed by "No" votes in French and Dutch referendums in 2005. Most of the EU's 27 states refused to give their people a referendum and Ireland's constitution forbids this, therefore they got a referendum. The majority of people in Europe would have opposed it and that was the main reason they didn't get a referendum.

The powers that be are trying to force this treaty through as quickly as possible. The fact that Ireland voted no counts for nothing, because when it comes to fascism, it's their way or the highway. The Irish will be made to vote again which is non democratic. They will be forced to vote yes or face threats of being frozen out of Europe. How much more obvious does it get, that the EU treaty is non democratic. Some people seriously need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Originally posted by Europe
reply to post by Bun-G

 

It appears to you that an english man is right when you are probably english and cant take the FACT that england has been commiting genocide in Ireland for 800 years.

It appears you do not know what your talking about

oh & sorry no.. im Scottish

reply to post by kindred


What about those that did vote on the constitution such as spain and luxemburg,(who gave an overwhelming yes) more were scheduled to vote but france F***ed it up for the vast majority who want this to proceed, treaties are never won or lost on there content but rather how they are presented.

reply to post by Freeborn


in 1572 francis drake murdered 600 men, women and children after surrendering.
I really should not have to explain what cromwell did to this country.
Nor what the black and tans did.
Or how about the potato famine in which england let 1 million people die.
I can go into way more detail if you would like.
Or about the attrocities in the north (admitedly commited by both sides)
The first casualty of war is always truth, the difference is we have the mass graves to back up our stories, where as you have nothing.
And it is you and your fellow country men who are avoiding responsibility in standing up and saying OK were guilty, have your country back!
Your point of view is so much different than mine because your country has not been on the recieving end of imperialism for 800 years!
And just because we have gained our independence from ye 80 years ago does not mean that all past crimes are forgiven and forgotten!
why cant you see that?

reply to post by Europe


Where do you think Imperialism starts?
At home!
We in the North East of England have lived with and felt the effects of Imperialism for centuries.

Why can't you see that you Irish are not unique, it's just that you seem to wallow and take pride in your own self pity!
You will never move forward till you let go of the past.
The events you mention occured centuries ago.
Maybe we should hold the Irish people as a whole responsible for more recent atrocities like Birmingham, Warrington, Enniskillen, Omagh etc.

Your bigotry clouds your judgement and effects your ability to view things in an even and open manner.
Your bigotry comes from centuries of playing upon people differences to hide the fact that we are all being # on!!

Back on thread; I can see how The Republic, Spain and Portugal have benefitted from EU funding but I honestly cannot see how the UK has, or will, benefit from being in the EU.
The corruption is rampant and seems engrained in all EU practices, procedures, projects etc.

reply to post by Europe


Oh, and I forgot to say, you have had your country back for 80 years, shame you could make nothing out of it without EU funding and backing etc.

Ulster will remain British as long as the majority of citizens there want to do so, the vast majority of them wish to do so.
End of story!

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by Europe

 

Where do you think Imperialism starts?
At home!
We in the North East of England have lived with and felt the effects of Imperialism for centuries.

Why can't you see that you Irish are not unique, it's just that you seem to wallow and take pride in your own self pity!
You will never move forward till you let go of the past.
The events you mention occured centuries ago.
Maybe we should hold the Irish people as a whole responsible for more recent atrocities like Birmingham, Warrington, Enniskillen, Omagh etc.

Your bigotry clouds your judgement and effects your ability to view things in an even and open manner.
Your bigotry comes from centuries of playing upon people differences to hide the fact that we are all being # on!!

Back on thread; I can see how The Republic, Spain and Portugal have benefitted from EU funding but I honestly cannot see how the UK has, or will, benefit from being in the EU.
The corruption is rampant and seems engrained in all EU practices, procedures, projects etc.

Tell me exactly how has the north east of england suffered from imperialism?
So because it happened it the past makes it ok?
Every Irish person was blamed for every bombing during the troubles(which is why many soldiers shot indiscriminatly all the time), my older brothers and a lot of my family were working in england at the time and suffered greatly from racism and bigotry simply because they were irish.
Only in the past 10 years has it become ok to be irish in britain.
I wont deny that those in power are #ing on everyone but you seem to forget that england was in power for centuries and shat on us all the time.
But neither of us is going to give ground on this argument so lets agree to disagree!

Back on topic, britains economic blackspots also get funding from the eu, thats one way ye have benefited, another would be access to the worlds largest market tariff free, another would be access to cheap labour from accession countries, so far i have listed three but your mind is made up, so europe is obviously bad for britain, never mind the fact that war between europe is now impossible, police are now more integrated making it easier to fight cross border crime, when europe speaks as one they will be taken more seriously than britain on its own, I forgot the freedom to move to wherever you want to live and work within the EU... that's just of the top of my head.

And on the corruption issue... you point to that as if its the only government in the world to suffer from corruption, im pretty sure britain has its fair share of corrupt politicians, the difference being that the EU takes corruption very seriously and has passed lots of legislation dealing with it.
I say you petition your government to get out of europe cause ye obviously dont want to be there.

reply to post by Freeborn

And having been the only european country to be colonised id say were pretty unique.
It is a shame I tell ya, but ah well I guess I'll go down the shops in my '08 golf gti and get some games for my playstation 3 to play on my 42" HD tv in my 4 bedroom house for which I have no mortgage!
Tsk Tsk for shame I tell ya!







[edit on 14-12-2008 by Europe]

reply to post by Europe


The Irish have been welcomed in Britain for centuries, my own Grandparents were all Irish who moved to England and integrated into British society.
They never once mentioned encountering prejudice but did tell me stories of their lives back in Ireland.

I know many other people who have moved to England from both The Republic and from Northern Ireland, mainly due to the intolerance they suffered from their own Catholic communities due to inter-denominational marriages and the inherent bigotry from both sides.

The North East has been raped and pillaged for centuries by the more affluent and influential South and has suffered immensely.
Whole communities have been destroyed.
In my travels I have neither seen or heard of any substantial or worthwhile EU investment in the region.

Corruption in the EU is akin to that in some African states.
Several people have tried to address the situation but all have been treat with ridicule and distain.
The fat cat's always look after themselves and it is likes of you and I that always pay the price, regardless of nationality.
A very good read and some excellent links, please take the time to read it...the treatment of some of the auditors etc has been disgraceful.
www.indymedia.org.uk...

I wish you no personal malice, I firmly believe in taking people as I find them and trying not to stereotype or pigeon hole people.
Neither I or the vast majority of English people I know blame the whole Irish nation for the actions of a mindless, hypocritical minority.


Edit to add link.

[edit on 14/12/08 by Freeborn]

Another example of petulance and fascism from those who are pushing the EU treaty onto everyone.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Nigel Farage, the leader of UK Independence Party, compared the EU flag demand to the behaviour of Nazi or Soviet officials, both dictatorships that had occupied Prague and its Castle in the past.

"The manner in which Cohn-Bendit demanded that President Klaus fly the EU flag over his castle could easily have been done by a German official of over 70 years ago or a Soviet official of 20 years ago," he said.

"No doubt they think that Buckingham Palace should fly the EU flag to show its dominium."

The end for overtime? As the recession bites and thousands of jobs go daily, the EU's priority is to scrap our opt-out on 48-hour week.

Millions of workers are facing a potentially crippling overtime ban after Euro MPs voted to scrap Britain's cherished opt-out from the 48-hour working week.

On the day UK unemployment neared two million and in the middle of the worst recession for generations, 13 of 19 Labour MEPs defied Gordon Brown and backed the move by Brussels to end the special deal.

The vote horrified ministers and business leaders, who say scrapping the right to earn extra cash would deal a devastating blow to families hit by the economic downturn.

It could also sink businesses desperate to beat the recession by having workers put in extra time to complete vital orders, they warned.
'It's the worst possible decision at the worst possible time,' said one critic.

www.europarl.europa.eu...
news.bbc.co.uk...
www.timesonline.co.uk...

So much for the EU opt outs then. Both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown swore they would protect our own laws and interests.

Senior European Union officials confirmed yesterday that Britain's "red line" opt-out from the European Charter of Fundamental Rights is not worth the paper it is written on.

Margot Wallström, the European Commission Vice-President, insisted that the charter will apply to huge swathes of British law, the 75 per cent or more that is derived from EU legislation.

But then didn't we already know this? Gordon Brown will apparently fight to secure these opt outs. Yeah right! it's all part of the deception. Our prime minister & government are truly nothing but traitors. The plan all along was to decieve the British people and force the EU treaty onto us whether we like it or not.

Nothing the EU does benefits England. If the EU won't abide by their own agreement in regards to these opt-outs, then we should get the hell out of Europe.

www.telegraph.co.uk...'s-treaty-opt-out-is-worthless,-admits-EU.html


[edit on 18-12-2008 by kindred]

reply to post by Mikey84


hI mIKEY
that was a well made point.
I am English living in Cyprus, if I hadnt the protection of some of the EU benefits and laws I couldnt be here.
Before we as a nation complain and scream about theEU, we need to look at what the UK has become, get our house in order, because there isnt much there to brag about any more.
Drugs, knife crime, taxes, - is Britain great any more???
i think there has to be balance and moderation, and as english we cannot have our cake and eat it.
However, there is a dark side to the EU, and therefore, we need all to be aware of how it is developing and have the freedom and ability to say what we dont want and dont like.

I can understand how the Irish feel.

If we could turn back the clock, maybe the UK wouldnt have joined - but the choice has gone now.

What's happening in this country is because of all the EU directives and legislation that has been forced through parliment or through the back door by New labour and our bought and paid for politicians who have sold us out. It's all part of the fascist EU plan. This country is simply a test bed for what these fascists have in store for the rest of Europe. Rest assured, once they have succeeded in taking over the UK, the rest of Europe will be next and democracy will be dead.

reply to post by kindred

What ever EU directives you are talking about dont specifically apply to britain but are rather EU wide, if the EU makes it illegal to wear yellow socks on tuesdays, that law will apply to europe in its entirity not just one country.
The EU court already supercedes british courts and all other courts for that matter, you would be homeless and probably jobless were it not for the EU as single countries cant compete on the world stage with increaseing threats from china and india, the only way to stay on top is to join together not just economically but also politically as this will ensure that the 21st century is a european century, if we are unified politically our voice will be the only one that is heard, all others will fall against the combined might of europe, our economy is already the size of americas but with way more room to grow, our armies are the biggest in the world, our R&D is fast approaching second to none, i personally support the EU in most of its endeavours, mush like the rest of the european continent, those that dont want the EU are in a tiny minority, miniscule as a matter of fact.

Sorry Europe it's the other way round. Those who support the EU treaty are the minority. That's already been proven. As for being homeless and jobless, that is nonsense. England has received no benefit whatsoever from being part of Europe. Anyway, it makes no difference what I say, as you have already made your mind up. You may have a voice, but as far as the fascist EU government is concerned, it will fall on deaf ears.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by kindred]

Originally posted by kindred
Sorry Europe it's the other way round. Those who support the EU treaty are the minority. That's already been proven.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by kindred]

It’s obviously not.

If the majority of the UK wants to be out of the EU then why don’t they stand up for themselves and leave! I just don’t get it, if most people as you say are against it then why not stand up and leave? You are free to do so at anytime.

I don’t think it’s because they lack balls, I think it’s because the majority are in favour of the EU. You seem more like sheeple that just follow the anti-EU movement. Which is a very very small minority! The point is, people in the UK are obviously not that much against the EU otherwise they would get off their backsides and leave it. They don’t.

It is clear the majority of UK citizens and European citizens are all for the EU, that’s one reason it is so strong and becoming stronger. The minority that are in the anti-EU group are just all talk and no action anyway.

Mikey


[edit on 19/12/2008 by Mikey84]

reply to post by Mikey84


well said
this is not a one liner.

reply to post by kindred


ive already explained at least 5 major benefits to england in a post up above, i can go into more dept if you like, and how has it been proven that most citizens are against the EU? 2 countries voted for the constitution (no one ever accepts that fact) 2 voted against it, they were not voting against the EU but the treaty, and it always *ALWAYS* turns up that the anti europe side was lying through there teeth!
And as for that facist European government, how dare they come to my country and enforce human rights law and ensure that we have consumer protection!
I can go on and on but there is no point as you probably wont accept the facts.

[edit on 19-12-2008 by Europe]

Wake up and smell the coffee......

Polls suggest 88% of English people want EU vote...

First independent poll of all 27 EU member states released to coincide with Berlin summit....

Key findings

75% of people in the EU want a referendum on any new treaty which gives more powers to the EU. In the UK, 83% would want a vote to be held. A majority in all 27 countries would want a referendum.

If there was a referendum on a treaty giving new powers to the EU, on average 41% of people in the EU would vote for it, with an exactly equal 41% voting against. But UK voters would vote more than three to one against a such a new treaty (67% - 21%). Majorities would also vote “no” in 16 EU countries, including Germany.

88% of English people want EU vote. Why? Why do you think, it's so that they can vote no...Unfortunately we have a government that has sold us out to the EU and won't give us a referendum. What do you expect us to do. Resort to violence and declare a revolution. Currently there's not much we can do about it, apart from protest, but there may come a time where we have no choice but to stand up and fight!

news.bbc.co.uk...

www.openeurope.org.uk...

www.euractiv.com...

EU treaty should be dropped, say British voters

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Like I said, "wake up and smell the coffee" (truth).



[edit on 20-12-2008 by kindred]