Off Grid Solar and Wind Power Houses

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by mybigunit


Why not get an old water heater, strip the shell off it, paint the tank black, put tin foil around it to reflect the sun, and put it on the roof covered with aquarium type glass.

Thats 40 Gallons minimum of Hot water for free, just the pumping effort.

\,

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Hey, Blitz, That's really an inventive idea you've got there! It sounds really ghetto, as in cheap and probably would work. LOL! Do you think that the water in the pipes would freeze in the winter because wouldn't they have to be exposed going from the roof to the connection point? And would it be a reliable operable device?

reply to post by uplander


Im going to put the wind a fairly good distance from the house so i dont have to hear the wooshing noise. I have seen stories on the cheap film that goes on the roof and who knows maybe when I start building it will be available in full scale. As far as maintinence how much work do you have to do on these units because Im not aware of the work involved.

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


Do you have a picture of an example of this? I would be curious to see.

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


While it would eat into your living space, have you considered creating false interior walls adjoining the exterior side of the house or building a false exterior and filling it with the polystyrene insulating foam -- can't recall the name of it just now.

Also, in Texas there a few firms -- probably in Austin and San Antonio that will spray a composite pain on the inside of the roof that significantly reduces heating in the summer and the loss of heat in winter.

Where one of my children lives in west Texas he has a small wind-turbine farm on a useless part of his place. Would you be able where you live to erect at least three moderate wind turbines? I was in Galveston not long ago and saw a home that had a series of very attractive small wind turbines affixed to the east and west sides of the home and a larger one on the garage. I realise they have a pretty constant source of wind, but maybe there is something like that that would be architecturally feasible for you to affix to your house.

I hope my thoughts are at least a little helpful. My home is in Canada and we built it with the lower floor underground and the upper floor surrounded by rammed earth. I hated the idea when my late husband decided on it, but he said things may get tough after his death and I would be grateful. I am deeply grateful for all of his far-sighted preparations. I never expected to live so long and am also grateful that I can live on my own with my dogs.

Originally posted by uplander

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by mybigunit


Why not get an old water heater, strip the shell off it, paint the tank black, put tin foil around it to reflect the sun, and put it on the roof covered with aquarium type glass.

Thats 40 Gallons minimum of Hot water for free, just the pumping effort.

\,

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Hey, Blitz, That's really an inventive idea you've got there! It sounds really ghetto, as in cheap and probably would work. LOL! Do you think that the water in the pipes would freeze in the winter because wouldn't they have to be exposed going from the roof to the connection point? And would it be a reliable operable device?

Hey Thanks!

i didnt come up with the idea and I saw a Video on it. I just got back into Town today and I'm leaving again Sunday, so I cant promise a link today.

As for the freezing, you "could" drain it down when it gets below freezing, or install a "freeze guard" that senses outside air temp, and kicks on a small circulation pump to keep the water moving in the system.

it measures AIR temp, which always drops faster than water temp, so you can set it to like 35 degrees to be safe ( in Texas). If you live up north, temps may drop faster, and you might need to set it to like 41 degrees.

As long as the water is moving, it will work fine for a few days ( 4 or 5 ) of Below freezing, then it will start to freeze inside the pipe, from the outer edges "IN". think of a tube of ice, with a hole in the center like a long doughnut.

At this point I would have to suggest Heat Tape, Insulation or draining it.

For what its worth, NEVER set up the plumbing on the NORTHERN face of your structure. Here in Texas, thats where all the COLD air comes from, and just being on the E, W, or South will make a BIG differance.

I'll search for the Video and try to post a link, or a URL for the Web Site. It may have been the History Channel, Science Channel Or Discovery Channel... Invention Nation "eco - energy", "Innovative Alternatives", "Smart Living", " Desert Power" or " Self Sustaining"... could have been You Tube as well.. lol ... sorry... Information Overload!

It might be next week though honestly, before I have the time to find it again.

Also, when I said wrapped in "tin foil", I obviously meant " A-Framed" in Tin Foil, like a Solar cooker, not "wrapped" like a Baked Potato. The Aquarium Glass keeps in the residual HEAT, like a greenhouse.

You use a Second complete tank for a storage container ( once again "used" and not leaking.. power supply or gas burner can be SHOT, we are not using either of the, just the tank. )

More Later.. got to eat.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 20-6-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

here's some i've been studying lately i hope this helps .
off gridoff griddiy siteoff gridvery infomativemoreanothersome pricesmore

i hope it's not to much at once but i'm sure you'll find something that grabs your attention .

Might be worth checking these guys out.

They have formed a new company with this new Solar invention and might be a hell of a lot cheaper for you. Although they are still at the investor stage currently.

Here







[edit on 21-6-2008 by Grimholt]

I to am looking and designing my own with combo building technics...part ram earth...hay etc......would love the log house but may be out of my budget. Plus I got'a do in stagges due to money. I plan to do in stages with a floor and yurts first and cont. as money flow in and I can cont. to build.

If you are looking into Canada not everywhere is cheap...I have been looking...right now the cheapest place in Canada (with the best support...hospitals, schools etc.) is NEWFOUNDLAND...just jobs are not plentifull...plus they got the glaciers the best water on the planet...best for making coffee/tea.

and the best part of Newfoundland is......get ready for this....if you have an exicting structure and say you want' to add to it... new addition or somthing....the Permit is $5.00 beet that price ...did a custom house in Northern Ontario and the Permit was almost $20,000. So not only is it the price of the land but the support and "if" they will let you build unusuall trusters etc. and/or heat/cooling/elect. systems...guess what I am saying is keep in mind if they let you build that there and or the cost for Permits and or the approval time...a good example of this is go to youtube and type in "eathships" and this guy explains how hard it can be in some places to build.

Your Canadian friend,
Sven

Yes that dish is cool it's on another thread on this site.

I made a comment on it....keep in mind it is STEAM thus may require an on site engineer to operate

Plus would hate to see a pipe burst while the kids' are in the backyard playing....it would melt you in seconds...but it is def. a good idea.

I would suggest to make it not so STEAMY. Bring the temperature to say 130/140 degrees and feed it to a heat-exchanger for heating and/or domestic water heating. And in Canada have min. 60% glycol so the water does not freeze esp. if the unit breaks down in the winter.

Your Canadian friend,
Sven

PS for the wood stove thingy....best way to go...can even have hot water tanks hooked up to it say 1 for heating (for in-floor heating etc.) and 1 for domestic water heating.
heatkit.com...
this just one of many types and web sites out there.

I built a solar home in the city, though it was far from off grid - you can check it out at www.elevendevelopment.com. For an off-grid house, I guess it all depends what creature comforts you need...

Heat is obviously critical - you freeze, you die. I recommend using solar hot water / glycol panels, with a wood stove / hearth backup. It is cheap, and simple technology that you can fix should it get damaged. I'd do radiant heat in a thick concrete slab, as the slab acts as a heat sink, so you can heat up during the day, and stay warm all night. I'd also use a lot of massing around the hearth for the same reason. High thermal mass will also keep you cool on hot days...

As for electrical, there are several things you can do. PV (photovoltaic), microwind and microhydro systems are available - best to use more than one system, with a battery storage system, though, who the heck knows where your going to get battery replacements if the world really goes to pot.

Really, the trick is to reduce your consumption. A tight building envelope means less requirement for heat. LED lights use significantly less electricity than standard. Use a manual can opener instead of electric, and so on...

I'd try to get a place near a creek. In any case, you better make sure you have good ground water, with a manual pump backup. Again - no water = death.

Also, for human waste, I'd use composting toilets. They are non-smelly, and can be used for fertilizer. If sit-x happens, you are not getting Joe's Septic Cleaning out to clean your tanks.

That is my 2 cents worth. Good luck.

Very good 2 cents and very cool web site and building.

Maybe one day you will build high rise condo's like this while
keeping the A.S.H.R.A.E. 90.1 as the minimum...not like so many condo's here in Toronto...sure don't understand how they are passing these glass buildings.

Thanx again for the 2 cents,
your Canadian friend Sven

OK I have an update. The house is going to be bigger. Im going to be building a 3000 heated sq ft. How many KW do you guys think Ill need. I want to be completely off grid I dont want to rely on the power companies at all. Ill be using both wind and solar and am building a big room just to house all the batteries. Have advise?

I see that anonymous posted something but it doesnt show up. Grrr Im curious to see what it is.

Originally posted by Blitzkreigen

Originally posted by mybigunit
Im thinking of using in line water heaters sven that way Im only using energy when I need it as far as the water heating. I cant do the underground because of the layout of the land and not only that I have got my brick house plans already but I will insulate the hell out of it. What do you guys think of in line water heaters also. Remember self sufficiency.

They require 14 to 15 psi to operate.

Why not get an old water heater, strip the shell off it, paint the tank black, put tin foil around it to reflect the sun, and put it on the roof covered with aquarium type glass.

Thats 40 Gallons minimum of Hot water for free, just the pumping effort.

Half this post got eaten by the Borg..., but you get the idea without all the tech specs that dissappeared when I posted.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

[edit on 4-6-2008 by Blitzkreigen]

Not sure but I think "mybigunit" is referring to a "Tank-less" water heater. I have one made by Bosch and it gives plenty of on demand hot water by way of propane. The only problem so far is the pilot keeps going out I think because the wind is coming in a Too-short exhaust vent pipe.

Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by uplander

 

Im going to put the wind a fairly good distance from the house so i dont have to hear the wooshing noise. I have seen stories on the cheap film that goes on the roof and who knows maybe when I start building it will be available in full scale. As far as maintinence how much work do you have to do on these units because Im not aware of the work involved.

DON'T buy a "Southwest" wind generator. I bought a 400 watt for $600 and It is EXTREMELY noisy and now it just makes a lot of noise and no power. It does tell me what direction the wind is blowing. LOL. Any suggestions on a GOOD wind generator.

A question for any who may know....

Every time I try and connect two or more batteries (deep cell marine) together and charge them with a charger the charger (computer controlled), won't shut off. It does fine with one battery but not with multiple batteries. I have ruined a few batteries and yes I am connecting "+" to "+" and "-" to "-".

I just charge them one at a time now. Am installing solar panels and don't want to screw them up.

What am I doing wrong?

Originally posted by stargateok
A question for any who may know....

Every time I try and connect two or more batteries (deep cell marine) together and charge them with a charger the charger (computer controlled), won't shut off. It does fine with one battery but not with multiple batteries. I have ruined a few batteries and yes I am connecting "+" to "+" and "-" to "-".

I just charge them one at a time now.

When you connect the batteries together are you wiring them in series or in parallel?

It's a really important distinction as wiring in series will add voltages together at a common current (amps) and will be at the same current through each battery in the bank as the current of the input load.

Parallel wired batteries add currents together at a common voltage, and the input load current through each battery unit will be equally divided

Most 12V batteries will need around 13.5V minimum input to start the charging process, so if your charge controller won't shut off it could well be that your two batteries are wired in series giving 24V, meaning that they aren't recieving the correct charge voltage, but may be recieving too much current

As for the ruined batteries...did that occur during a single or multiple battery charge? It could be that the input current is too high. For instance, my batteries are rated at 25A maximum charging current @ 12V and anything over that will wreck them. Check the spec sheet for the details, or contact the manufacturer for the rated current

..hope that's of some help

I'd recommend having a read through this site, as there are far more knowledgeable folk on there that could help..

Otherpower

edit to add:

You may want to replace your charge-controller with one that has 'dump' switching (preferably relay switched rather than FET microchip). All this means is that once the controller detects that the batteries are charged, will switch the flow of power to an alternate source such as an immersion heating hot-water element, so saving your batteries from over-charge damage



[edit on 16-12-2008 by citizen smith]

Let me see if i can help you.

A neighbor of mine has two wind turbines from this company and they are far better and quieter then any of the other turbine systems i have seen.
www.mariahpower.com...
And you don't need a crane to install one.
Plus the can be tilted down to do routine maintenance. Doing maintenance is something that has to be done on any equipment so buy a turbine that you can do maintenance on yearly and be very wary of any company that claims there system is maintenance free.

Another thing on batteries.
The best batteries for a off grid system are nickel iron batteries.
I know of some in old mining equipment that are over 50 years old.
as long as you keep the water levels up they will last many years longer then lead acid batteries. too long, In some mining equipment they out last the equipment they are in.
www.beutilityfree.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by ANNED
Let me see if i can help you.

A neighbor of mine has two wind turbines from this company and they are far better and quieter then any of the other turbine systems i have seen.
www.mariahpower.com...
And you don't need a crane to install one.
Plus the can be tilted down to do routine maintenance. Doing maintenance is something that has to be done on any equipment so buy a turbine that you can do maintenance on yearly and be very wary of any company that claims there system is maintenance free.

Another thing on batteries.
The best batteries for a off grid system are nickel iron batteries.
I know of some in old mining equipment that are over 50 years old.
as long as you keep the water levels up they will last many years longer then lead acid batteries. too long, In some mining equipment they out last the equipment they are in.
www.beutilityfree.com...
en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks for the info. Im going to look into the wind company you provided. Im hoping there wont be any off grid issues. Ill have to buy like 4 of them eeekk. I just looked at the batteries how do you know which battery is the best? What is AH?