THE real american campaign: Conservatism is bad for you

Keep in mind, that the original title i had drafted for this thread was "A Real American Campaign: Never vote conservative" but since there are those who choose to imitate that which they covet, someone has deceitfully beat me to the point. But plagarism is the greatest form of flattery. So...without further adue:

Hello, once again, fellow Americans, and welcome back for another enticing political debate! Lets see who has their head on the chop block today, shall we?

Right Wing Whacked Out Conservatives

*audience boo's*

Ooooo yes, thats right. The snake oil man himself. This is the man who tells you that everything fine in the world, and nothing is going wrong.

And how does the snake oil man achieve this, feat?

Well that is behind door #1:

The man who tells you that he's for middle America, but is blatantly Signing away your entire future for you.

Bankruptcy is a hard fact of life. The fact is, that not all americans are created equal. It is true that, by law, all americans have an equal chance to thrive in society, albeit those chances are completely contingent on the already rich sectors of America. And we all know how easily laws can be twisted to accomodate the aristocrats of our society.

The 'hard' part is that everyone makes mistakes, and deserves a second chance. For many people, Bankruptcy was that chance.
Bankruptcy carries with it a negative stigma because it infers that the receipient simply refuses to pay his or her debts. But we all know that things happen. Sickness, death, freak accidents. Any one of which can bring a typical thriving American household to its knee's.

Instead of imposing greater legislation in opposition of helping Americans, Mr. Bush, why not propose a bill that requires education before people can have "credit"? A person cannot drive a car before they go through a government course to prove they know how to drive, and why? Because driving a car is a huge responsibility. And so is credit. Stop allowing the rich to get richer, by feeding off the un-educated poor.

(for additional input on this matter, i urge you to check out and watch Maxed Out




This is the same man who says everyone suffers from higher energy costs, but clearly cannot explain Record energy profits with a single irrefutable fact.

And i ask you, Americans, how is it that they defend record oil prices?
Saying its in line with other companies? By saying that they invest the same percentage of their profits as other business?

Can anyone here point out a single difference between gasoline from the 1970's and the gasoline of today? I see no new technologies emerging from these energy companies, despite trillions of dollars invested in new technology.

But those are all bi-products of what conservatism actually is. In order to truely deny ignorance of anything, one must understand all things of which they speak. So. What is a conservative?

A conservative values aristocricy. They choose to hide this in a viel of "every man for themselves" but fail to realize that they, most often, hold the keys to avenues for success.

Big Business = job opportunities, this is true, but big business also controls the rules by which those job opportunities become available. CEO's get richer despite ever declining profits in a already struggling business. That extra 22 million came from somewhere, and an increase in car sales simply was not where it came from (especially with record high oil prices). People lost their jobs, and plants were closed. $22,000,000? For what? Destroying a great american corporation?

Conservatives operate in disinformation. They let ignorance work for them in the private sector, particuarly the middle class, with the enticing allurement that promises aristocricy.
All Americans strive to be more than their current social position. Conservatives tell you "best man for the job" to qualm upheavals from all sectors of the civilian world, meanwhile pick pocketing every american's tax dollars in the forms of war, fighting poverty, and establishing long term goals in countries other than our own.

In a world where money talks, 'the best man for the job', does not always refer to that mans skill.

The rich get richer Through lies and deceitful political warfare. every time you turn around, conservatives have come up with some new way to convince you to give up your money
Lets not forget that they also come up with even more ways of legally stealing even more .


The poor are getting poorer. and we're told, basically, that we have no option. gas prices are going up. Cars are becomming more expensive (ever priced one of them new hybrids?) and good paying jobs are becomming less previlant, despite a record increase in the incomes of big buisiness everywhere, oh, and despite the fact that there are more college grads out there now, than ever before, still working fast food because nobody is 'currently hiring'

It's more expensive on everyone so that the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer.
To be a conservative is to, yourself, be wealthy and care not for the real worries of Americans.
True, americans dont want terrorist attacks

But even more realistically - they dont want to live in squallor and paycheck to paycheck, despite working 80 hours a week to eek by and make ends meet.

Deny ignorance.

Conservatism is like a rainbow
It promises a pot of gold at the end
but always fails to deliver when you get there.

Never Vote Conservative
Ever
Never, ever, not even once

[edit on 3-6-2008 by ybab hsur]

[edit on 3-6-2008 by ybab hsur]

reply to post by ybab hsur


You, sir, are a political name-caller. First you attack liberals, now conservatives. You use the appropriate straw-man argument for each. Just like you can't vote
"liberal", you also can't vote "conservative".

I don't understand what you want to accomplish here besides managing to piss a bunch of folks off.

reply to post by drwizardphd




Do you actually have an opinion, or would you rather just slander me all day?

I've already made it very clear where my political ideals stand, but since this is a different thread, and there maybe new viewers, ill say it one last time.

I stand in a place where conservatives and liberals arent allowed to exist. Because to label one's self a conservative or a liberal is to accept ignorance into one's way of life.

I choose to deny ignorance a platform to stand on, by attempting to do everything in my power to destroy the pedestal they stand on.

Just beacuse you have no opinion on the matter, doesnt make mine wrong.
Go to another thread if you dont wish to take part in the discussion.

Please Read, future One liners will results in one liner warns. Thanks

ABOUT ATS: Warnings for one-line or short responses

I have to admit that this post i do 100% agree with.

Everything i posted is osmething i feel strongly about, even though it goes against the "norm" of what most of you feel i am.

But even after i prove my middle of the ground standing (which proves EVERYONE who was against me WRONG)

you still have nothing to say

Well...thats either sheepness or it's ignorance. Either way - you should all be ashamed ("all" is intended to be directed towards anyone who opposed me in my post about liberals)

So even though i show you that i can agree with you on things like these in this thread, you still oppose me

and then you call me biased.

Very interesting information. A lot of the conclusions I always drew, but it never hurts to have some more information with which to make a decision. I miss your old avatar though, poor T. Rex. I must say that I think you handled the criticisms of the two "parties" pretty well, although by attacking liberalism first you probably got put on quite a few ignore lists, before you could provide the criticism of the other side.

Sorry, I actually have nothing to debate with you, just wanted to say that some people do look at the arguments, rather than defending their label. I was wondering though, do you consider neo-cons the same as conservatives, or is that for a future thread?

I am also curious as to how you might suggest one battles the "Sickness, death, freak accidents"? Would you be willing to have a welfare type system, which some might call liberal? I hope asking about solutions isn't too off topic. Peace out.

Oh my god, and out of the flames comes a real human being.

I know you and i differ (and i miss my old avatar too...but this one is much more how i feel)

If they ignored me before i could respond, then it proves their own cowardace to the truth. I can live with that, infact it makes me feel really good.
Nobody will ever be more angry at you than when you prove them wrong.

I look at the political spectrum as

Neo cons
conservatives
republicans
democrats
liberals
whackos (my term..dunno what its officially called)

and its not in that order either...im just sayhing "neo cons" are on the left side of the spectrum at the same distance as the "whackos" are on the right side of the specturm and so on and so forth.

Also - i am for welfare reform, not welfare abolishment. I think i said it that way - if not, then i mis-spoke and am retracting it here.

I believe there are people who need help. But, as with most democratic whacko laws, welfare creates huge loopholes for lazy criminals and degenerates to exploit and get even more free money.

I say you close off those loopholes (im still gathering ideas for a really big post on this very issue, it'll be about racism in politics, and how all politicians are responbile for the continued practice of racism)

it's gona be a good one

though a lot of ppl here simply will never get to read it. Why?

Because they up and ignored me just because i was different.

Well to those people i say

"Thank you for proving my point, about why you should never vote liberal."

Respectfull yours

-Ybab

Originally posted by ybab hsur
Oh my god, and out of the flames comes a real human being.

I know you and i differ (and i miss my old avatar too...but this one is much more how i feel)


Also - i am for welfare reform, not welfare abolishment. I think i said it that way - if not, then i mis-spoke and am retracting it here.

-Ybab

That first remark is hillarious, although kind of sad too in regards to the state of "open-minded" individuals to actually listen to people even if they don't agree all the time. I don't believe that you said anywhere that you would abolish welfare, I didn't see you mention your stance on the subject, so I was just wondering. Thanks for the quick reply.

The more of your posts I read though, the more I think our disagreements are semantically/vocabulary based. I admit when I first read your liberal post, I thought you were inferring that "conservative" ideals were more beneficial, but after reading more of your responses, I see why you had to do it this way. Attacking all the groups would have been more of a novel than a post.

Don't worry about the flaming though, it happens to us all. I get called a "liberal" a lot, simply because I don't agree with the practices of "conservatives" (such as the ones you mentioned in your post), but no one listens to me when I start to say that you can't just give everything away either, it has to be more meritocratic. Of course when I start to say that my "liberal" friends attack me. I look forward to reading your posts on the other political parties. Back to the flames now I guess. Peace out.

All liberal-minded people EVERYWHERE should take a note from the wisdom of dragonfire.

i dont promote him because he "agrees" with me (because he doesnt)
i promote him because he evaluates and doesnt choose sides

i've never chosen a side

i said that i despite both conservs and liberals. But if i had to say, i'll say i lean more towards conservative values for one reason only

Democrats created welfare

I think welfare is the biggest joke and proponet of racism in america that there ever was.

I hate it, i think it needs SEVERELY reformed.

But of course, when i say that, im immeidately labeled a conservative.

So fine. call me what you will if you wish, libs, but it doesnt take away from the fact that you're just wallering in your own ignorance.

If you (certain liberals) feel as though you can't objectively debate, and instead you resort to name calling, slandering, and "ignoring"
well fine, but it just proves that "age" truely has nothing to do with maturity

Originally posted by ybab hsur

I think welfare is the biggest joke and proponet of racism in america that there ever was.

I hate it, i think it needs SEVERELY reformed.

But of course, when i say that, im immeidately labeled a conservative.

Welfare was "severely reformed" in the 1990's by the Clinton administration. How much do you actually know about welfare, like the fact that more white people collect it than people of color? Are you including Social Security, medicaid, medicare, Social Security disability, food stamps, WIC, etc.? In what ways would you "reform" Social Security?

It's easy to scream that people who "don't deserve it" receive some form of public assistance, but by "undeserving" they usually mean people of color. How much experience do you really have with poverty or with these programs? You don't seem old enough to be eligible for Social Security, for example. I suspect your main experience with the social safety net is what you hear from Rush Limbaugh.

I don't mind debating a real conservative on these issues, because most real conservatives understand what the liberals are talking about.

obivously there are many thigns you dont understand

1.) i dont considre myself a conservative

2 seconds around this forum and you'll figure out that i despise conservatives just as much as liberals


2.) At what point, ANYWHERE, did i say "people of color" recieve welfare more than whtie people? You draw that conclusion on your own

welfare reform by the clinton admin is what makes this thing so screwed up

want reform?
Make it damn near impossible to get, so that the people who need it will fight to get it, and the people who are too damned lazy to deserve it wont do anything required.

reply to post by ybab hsur


So the only thing you don't like about conservatives is the fact that they are for the most part the rich people in control of big business and and money in general? If this is all you can come up with to disagree with on conservatism then I would say you are certainly more conservative by a good stretch then liberal or anywhere in between.

You really railed them big bad conservatives.

reply to post by Sestias

I think welfare is the biggest joke and proponet of racism in america that there ever was.

I think he is saying that the argument over welfare tends to lead to a lot of racist/race arguments which I am assuming he is implying he doesn't like much. You are indeed the one who is injecting race into this debate not him.

[edit on 7-6-2008 by AnOldFriend]

Please let me humbly suggest that the author of this piece has missed the underlying issue. This is not a battle between “liberals”, “conservatives”, ethnic groups, Christian, or any other of the numerous segments of American society; though for certain the powers that be would love us to continue in such ‘divide and conquer’ pseudo intellectual mindsets, thereby facilitating our total enslavement. As the band plays on, few notice the slide of our beloved America into the dark night of a police state and the chains of slavery.

While there is plenty of blame and finger pointing that could be done from all political sides, is it not time to come together with one voice to speak against the evil that confronts all of us? As has been said: “If we do not hang together, we shall certainly hang separately.” At this point in time we can ill afford to have any label but “American.” May God have mercy on us if we forget this now, the enemies of freedom will not.

SGTChas

i ask you...in what way am i taking sides?

You seem like an alright guy - did you even read my sig that clearly shows im not taking sides?
I point out flaws in all parties, in hopes that no matter which party you "back up" you'll see that its corrupt and the politicans are only for themselves.

George Washington had the first idea of no political party, and he's our only president to have been in office that can say he doesnt belong to a party. He's the only one that had it right.

I hope you see what im trying to tell you, because im trying to keep you from slipping into perpetual darkness like oh-so-many other hopless souls have before. Read what i type - don't read what you want to see.

It is perhaps in the way that point you out the opposite sides of political spectrum and thus emphasize their inherent rampant divisiveness that you have taken a side within a system that has at its core, as I pointed out, a ‘divide and conquer’ mentality that promotes a pseudo intellectual mindset which is facilitating our total enslavement.

Any discussion of "liberal" or "conservative" has become pointless. Now that the ‘sacred cows’ of all Americans are being slaughtered before our eyes, we would do well to return to the purity of what our Constitution’s framers had intended as clearly stated in our national Declaration of Independence: “… We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. …” Notice that therein one does not find a limiting clause defining the “pursuit of happiness” as ideally ‘Liberal’, ‘Conservative’, or anything else. The day is too far spent for us to continue to fight the ‘straw men’ of “liberal” or “conservative”; we must stand together as Americans to save our Republic, or be chained together as slaves.

reply to ybab hsur

I had seen the threat on not voting Liberal in the list a few days back, but did not read it. I already know why not to vote liberal. I have considered myself a conservative, so I popped in on this thread to check it out.

First, great debate. I thoroughly enjoyed your ability to take on both sides of this issue for the purpose of creative thinking.

I agreed with your evaluation of what you consider conservative. However, I think that the characteristics you describe are either not that of what I and most of my peers consider conservatives, and/or they are the characteristics of people someone with a liberal mindset considers conservative, but that a true conservative would not. And if neither of those are the case, then perhaps my concept of conservativism is wrong and I am something completely different.

That all being said, and now that you have expressed your disdain for liberals and conservatives based on their principles and or operations, could you post you solution to both sides of these political cancers? What policies, principles and methods would correct the problems created by both factions, and in your opinion would be ideal?

[edit]
I should have looked at the profile info before this post. Apparently, you have been banned. I hope it wasn't due to the confrontational nature of the topics you have posted.


[edit on 9-6-2008 by Wolf321]

reply to post by Wolf321


Hmm well that kinda sucks that he got banned I had fun talking to this guy.

And trust me if you read his other thread you should be able to see how weak this thread is compared to his lashings at the liberals. A lot of the things he says in that other thread is the same sort of BS you here from liberals directed towards conservatives. He reminds me of Bill O', always says he doesn't choose sides but to most people that aren't him can see it is pretty obvious who he supports.

As a matter of fact I asked him if he was Bill O in that thread and either he overlooked that question or just chose not to answer.

I suggest you read both threads to really get a grasp of how this guy thinks though.

Did she really get banned? I was enjoying not reading her constant arguing and belittling of fellow posters. Rest in pieces ybab hsur. What was with that name hsur ybab anyway? Maybe I was never smart enough to converse with her.