Fight Club Pub.

Holiday Skirmish: Heike vs TheWayISeeIt: Elven Slavery?


Another Debate Judgment is in!!!

Congratulations!!

revealing page

and congrats to heike!
to me the very first video has beaten everything.

it was a real blast to read the entire debate, i enjoyed it so much
thanks to twisi and heike!

Well done, Heike!

So, I guess I am on the point-dole now, right? I have to beg for a point for future debates?

I am not too proud to beg. Frankly, I am not too proud for much as is evidenced by my continuous participation around here.

Originally posted by TheWayISeeIt
So, I guess I am on the point-dole now, right? I have to beg for a point for future debates?

Actually, it was decided that noone would lose points in the Holiday Skirmishes, one point for participation would be had by all and one extra point for the victor.

So you are good to go...

Good job Heike!

Heike and TWISI made that a very fun read. I thought Heike's use of the 'Elf Cam' extremely creative. Never would have thought of that.

Congrats to both fighters!

Hilarious stuff at times.

Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by americandingbat

 

Hmm, more like

There is an organized conspiracy in the Health Care Industry (including pharma companies) to keep the public addicted to prescription drugs, expensive treatments, and surgical procedures.

Or even "The Health Care Industry is far more concerned about profits than people." Because, of course, money and greed are at the root of all of it.
?

But I agree 100% with your second proposal, and only disagree on the word "organized" (and perhaps "addicted") in the first.

I would definitely want to debate the Health Care Community (including nurses, nurse practitioners, etcetera), not the Health Care Industry (which I think of as being basically the chemical/pharma companies, the device companies, and the insurance/HMO companies).

I know that not all doctors are "in" on it and some doctors may not even really be aware of it - after all the only difference between us and them is medical school, and when they started most of them probably didn't know enough to differentiate between the good information and the "bad." Now, it's too late - it's part of what they "know."

We might be able to work out something like "Doctors are the dupes of the health care industry" I suppose. You pro, me con. I'd want to think through the wording pretty carefully though, since I've definitely left myself open to baiting tactics on this one, and I don't want to be the test case of any new techniques you may have picked up from Sky

Originally posted by orange-light
although we have some doctor.s who after being at standard medical school got some additional qualifications and treat you more according natural medicine or even with homoeopathics, it happend that the very doctor.s advice you to take out a functional organ (uterus) because the patient got heavy menstruation now and then, which they thought was nothing to worry about but lets cut the problem out.

But most doctors would be very reluctant to perform a hysterectomy for heavy menstruation. And there's no way I would agree to debate outdated medical ideas or practices – it's an ever changing field and they know stuff now that they didn't know ten years ago. Example: I was one of the very few of my peers to keep her tonsils as a child, since it was pretty much "common knowledge" that tonsils were a useless blob of flesh that only served to get infected.

Turns out, that wasn't true, so tonsillectomy as a reaction to one or two cases of strep throat went out of style.

In that issue, doctors were wrong but there was no conspiracy to perform unnecessary surgery. They were just too enamored with themselves to realize how much they didn't yet understand.

And women's health is particularly full of that kind of non-conspiratorial self-important harm (as I tried to argue in the Boob Debate).

it is a conspiracy heike, this way we are so much easier to be controlled.

Who is in charge of this conspiracy, and who participates in it with knowledge of its motivations?

i don.t know anything about the USA, but here in germany, some people don.t get the treatment they need. it is not that the very treatment is so expensive - like massages for pain in the back - the treatment just doesn.t fit into the budget, or it is at the end of the quartet so no more money left … and health insureance cost more every year and to my information most of the money is spent in administration.

I will not defend the way that health care decisions are made by insurance companies here, and it sounds like it's similar in Germany. They should be made my the patient and the health care practitioner, not by accountant (in my opinion).

My gut feeling is that that's not so much a conspiracy to keep people sick as the reactionary defensiveness of an industry that continues to make huge profits even as it becomes increasingly out of step with modern practice and knowledge.

I certainly don't think that it's a conspiracy on the level of health care practice, since most doctors (unless well protected from the paperwork aspects by an institution) are just as frustrated about having to justify every procedure to accountants as patients are.

________________________________

Okay. That's probably enough with laying out my side before a debate topic gets agreed on. Heike, if you think there might be something worth debating let me know


[edit on 1/20/09 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by americandingbat
That's probably enough with laying out my side before a debate topic gets agreed on.

Ya think?

Maybe y'all should go with a really subjective topic, like: "The Benefits Of Modern Medicine Render Insignificant Its Systemic Flaws".

reply to post by Ian McLean


Ha!

You took the words right out of my mouth.
Not the long sentence, the short one.

reply to post by Ian McLean


1) Hey, I think it's a strategy. I seem to remember doing this before the boob debate too (I even think I got a raised eyebrow about it from Mr. Shock). But whatever works … it didn't hurt then, apparently

2) that might just work … not "render insignificant", I'd never go there, but "outweigh" perhaps. Although I also think that calling doctors "dupes" in the debate title might help draw views.

Originally posted by americandingbat
Although I also think that calling doctors "dupes" in the debate title might help draw views.

And in some cases is God's Honest Truth...

Morning everyone.

Any fascinating news to report?

reply to post by nyk537


Good morning, NYK... apparently, it's a new day in America, or something.

My coffee tastes the same. OMG I just realized - I'm drinking it black.

Total coincidence (I just happen to be out of milk) -- but I will take the opportunity to not self-censor an innocuous joke that might, in a prior age, have been considered 'racially insensitive'.

Gotta take the change and hope where you can find it.

reply to post by Ian McLean


I don't know....it might be considered more racially insensitive now.

You wouldn't want it to seem as though you were trying to stand in the way of "real change" would you?

reply to post by nyk537


Interesting idea for a debate topic:

"Humor in a society or culture is the truest benchmark of real change"

I think there's quite a bit of truth in that.

reply to post by Ian McLean


Hmm…I like it.

I'd be very interested in tackling that one.

I think the two of you (nyk and Ian) should debate each other.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'll leave that to Ian, as personally I'm all for it.

Somebody's gotta bring the Champ back down to Earth.

For noobs wanting to learn about debate tactics I think my current debate against AshleyD is good.
No matter how many rebuttals I do, no matter how much logic I bring up,if I continue the debate in this fashion, I am going to loose for certain. Why? More on that after the debate. There's only one way I stand a chance of turning the debate. How? More on that after the debate.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by nyk537


Ever since his championship he's been avoiding debates, notice?

Hey Ian...nyk has beaten me three times, I havent beaten him even once.

He's the real challenge.