NASA Forgot How To Go To The Moon!!!

Well, I have nothing of signigfigance to add to the clash of the uh... internet researchers up there.
I'm just going to chip in something from my own expierience here, and get back to what I was doing.
I was in the metal fabrication business for a little over a decade before I left a couple of months ago, and one thing I can say is that loosing plans or information you need is something that can happen pretty easily.
For one thing, People's notes are generally meant for themselves. They only generally write down the things they think they'll forget or need to tell someone else at some later date, and that generally means a large chunk of data gets left out. Add into that person leaving, dieing, going senile, or whatever, and that info can be lost to you. Instances where records are kept, put away in a filing cabinent, in a room of filing cabnints. If you find the notes, and if they aren't a mound of silverfish with the word "The" left behind (why is it you always find "the"?) Continued in next post

Originally posted by letthereaderunderstand
Hey all, just an idea...None of it is real. I'm not saying they don't launch rockets or go up real high in the sky, but common sense tells me, unless I can verify it for myself that it is not smart to jump off the bridge with the group, let alone the whole generation.

None of it's real huh? Why can I predict the appearance of the ISS based on its orbit then, and photograph it by tracking it based on its orbital position and velocity? How can it be that myself and many others have seen spacecraft in orbit?

ISS picture

I have met tons of people who know everything, who will tell me what IS and even tell me I'm stupid for not agreeing, without knowing from first hand knowledge themselves.

If you live or visit florida and attend a public star party I can give you the first hand knowledge that proves your rather extreme and unsupported worldview false.

reply to post by RuneSpider


We've had instances where we had to redraw or redesign parts because some dummy hadn't put all of the plans down correctly.
It actually got worse when we started working with computers and HAAS units, if you'll believe that. Now, all of this is when we aren't rushed, take our time, and have no problems.
When we get rushed, we generally gfet three different designs of the same part, all within specs. And before you ask, no we are not a bad company, we are actually a pretty good one. We do our own QC and a lot of other thigns because of how well we work.
I'd hate to go back and try to find plans for parts from the eighties or before from our shop. The only ones we have still from when we first opened are the ones we put in a clear envelope and stuck to the machine with magnets, with several copies made and consequences if someone forgot.

Originally posted by RuneSpider
We've had instances where we had to redraw or redesign parts because some dummy hadn't put all of the plans down correctly.

Well the point in the movie is that there has been no need to go to the moon with a manned mission... so all those who worked on the project are retired or dead by now... and looking at a finished piece of equipment does not give you the steps taken to arrive at that piece of equipment... so they have the 'how" in hand, but not the 'why'

So its like starting from scratch...

I like the part where Buzz when asked.. "It's a prototype but could it have worked?"...

he replies... "It could have been tested, yeah"

It seems there is still doubt about how the moon landing was staged.
In the "moon landing" tapes the US flag is fluttering about via wind. That is impossible!!! in space LOL. Space is zero gravity.
There was no blastoff dust or impression beneath the Apollo spacecraft...again impossible.
There were NO STARS in the background of the images...again impossible.
The camera crosshairs in the photos are partially concealed which means the image was superimposed over the camera crosshairs. Again Impossible!!!
The layout of the lunar surface in the background of the Apollo spacecraft on the "moon" is an exact match to area 51 in the New Mexico desert....this was proven in side by side still photographs.
There is much more evidence though I think those who are still in doubt should see the fake moon landing films once again to see that what I say is true. I wish we did go to the moon. I was lied to as a youngster as well though realize it was done for a much more important mission.

Motives
Several motives have been suggested for the U.S. government to fake the moon landings - some of the recurrent elements are:
Distraction - The U.S. government benefited from a popular distraction to take attention away from the Vietnam war. Lunar activities did abruptly stop, with planned missions cancelled, around the same time that the US ceased its involvement in the Vietnam War.
Cold War Prestige - The U.S. government considered it vital that the U.S. win the space race with the USSR. Going to the Moon, if it was possible, would have been risky and expensive. It would have been much easier to fake the landing, thereby ensuring success.
Money - NASA raised approximately 30 billion dollars pretending to go to the moon. This could have been used to pay off a large number of people, providing significant motivation for complicity. In variations of this theory, the space industry is characterized as a political economy, much like the military industrial complex, creating fertile ground for its own survival.
Risk - The available technology at the time was such that there was a good chance that the landing might fail if genuinely attempted.
The Soviets, with their own competing moon program and an intense economic and political and military rivalry with the USA, could be expected to have cried foul if the USA tried to fake a Moon landing. Theorist Ralph Rene responds that shortly after the alleged Moon landings, the USA silently started shipping hundreds of thousands of tons of grain as humanitarian aid to the allegedly starving USSR. He views this as evidence of a cover-up, the grain being the price of silence. (The Soviet Union in fact had its own Moon program).

Proponents of the Apollo hoax suggest that the Soviet Union, and latterly Russia, and the United States were allied in the exploration of space, during the Cold war and after. The United States and the former Soviet Union today routinely engage in cooperative space ventures, as do many other nations that are popularly believed to be enemies. However, this suggestion is challenged by the impression of intense international competition that was under way during the Cold War and is not supported by the accounts of participants on either side of the Iron Curtain. Many argue that the fact that the Soviet Union and other Communist bloc countries, eager to discredit the United States, have not produced any contrary evidence to be the single most significant argument against such a hoax. Soviet involvement might also implausibly multiply the scale of the conspiracy, to include hundreds of thousands of conspirators of uncertain loyalty. www.reference.com...
I didn't intend to go on about this but wow people...don't believe everything to see on TV. How much disinformation and lies do you see everyday on TV? Enough about this topic..there's much more important issues to deal with today.

Originally posted by oceanaut1
It seems there is still doubt about how the moon landing was staged.
In the "moon landing" tapes the US flag is fluttering about via wind. That is impossible!!! in space LOL. Space is zero gravity.

Nice summary only thing is you lose credibility in the opening line

The flag is not IN SPACE its on the moon... and both our side and their side agree that there IS gravity on the moon I believe you meant atmosphere

Don't forget JFK! He set the target of going to the Moon.

Did he end up dead because they knew they couldn't make it in 8 years, and didn't want any more Cold War targets they couldn't meet?

Why has no other country sent a man to the Moon? Why not Russia in particular (even if it just proves they could?)? Generally everything was matched by the other side, regardless of who did it first, except for the Moon landing.

[edit on 6-12-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

I really didn't follow the conversation and I only reply to the OP.
I really can't believe that's true and I suppose it's just another half true story.
Greets

Originally posted by oceanaut1
It seems there is still doubt about how the moon landing was staged.
In the "moon landing" tapes the US flag is fluttering about via wind. That is impossible!!! in space LOL.

Mythbusters proved you wrong there. If you touch a flagpole, even in a vacuum, the vibrations will still carry up the pole and to the flag to cause it to sway back and forth.

Space is zero gravity.

There's gravity on the moon.

There was no blastoff dust or impression beneath the Apollo spacecraft...again impossible.

There's no impression under a harrier when it lands on rock, and this was in reduced gravity requiring much less thrust to hover than on earth. The dust was clearly blown away during descent, and in doing so it left small groves in the lunar rock underneath, radiating away from the engine bell.
history.nasa.gov...

There were NO STARS in the background of the images...again impossible.

The cameras were set for daylight exposures. Stars do not show up in short exposures period, even in space. If you disagree then you must think this ISS image was faked, right? I mean, this was taken with a more advanced digital camera too, yet no stars... Either ISS is fake or you're wrong.
static.howstuffworks.com...
By the way, stars don't show up in my telescopic pictures of the moon, so surely I'm faking those too, right?
www.flickr.com...

The camera crosshairs in the photos are partially concealed which means the image was superimposed over the camera crosshairs. Again Impossible!!!

Or the crosshair was on top of a white highly reflective object and the film was slightly overexposed in that section, bleeding over the crosshair, making it inivisible in all low resolution shots.

The layout of the lunar surface in the background of the Apollo spacecraft on the "moon" is an exact match to area 51 in the New Mexico desert....this was proven in side by side still photographs.

LOL! Area 51 was involved? Yeah, right. Why is it then that Selene confirmed the background was actually a match to the what you should really see in areas where they landed using side by side images?
www.universetoday.com...

There is much more evidence though I think those who are still in doubt should see the fake moon landing films once again to see that what I say is true. I wish we did go to the moon.

We did go to the moon. Your evidence is non-existent.

I didn't intend to go on about this but wow people...don't believe everything to see on TV.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Enough about this topic..there's much more important issues to deal with today.

Seeing as how you're completely misinformed on this topic, why should I trust your view on any other?

[edit on 8-12-2008 by ngchunter]

Originally posted by zorgon
Nice summary

only thing is you lose credibility in the opening line

So you really buy into the no stars, no crater under LEM, wrong background nonsense zorgon? I really thought you were better informed than that.

oh , please !

NASA has NOT ` forgotten ` - they have simply allowed obsolete tech to be disgarded

ask yourself similar questions of other disciplines :

cold ford build a model t - today ? it could be done EVENTUAY but who in the motor industry today knows how to build a magneto ?

could huges rebuild the spruce goose today ? it could be done EVENTUALLY but who in the aviation industry knows how to dope canvas and build a wood frame wing root ?

in the 35 years since the appolo program - nasa has veveloped new technologies for other pruposes that the apollo era NASA could not even hope to have accomplised - the price of doing so however has been to let OBSOLETE tech go

[edit on 8-12-2008 by ignorant_ape]

Lost the technology or not, I'd much prefer that they go to the Moon. Land, and return a few hundred times safely, before they tried and failed spectacularly on Mars.

I pretty much see going to the Moon as a priority first, just to work out 80% of the problems with a Mars shot. While I doubt NASA will forget the meters/feet error they made with one of the Mars missions, I'd like to see them demonstrate that they can get folks landed and back from an easier gravity field than Mar's gravity.

M.

This is old news to me. Back in the 1990's, I toured the NASA facilities in Texas and Florida, and even way back then, the official NASA tour guides were telling people that we couldn't go back to the moon "today" meaning (back in the 1990's) if we wanted to, because we didn't have the technology, infrastructure, etc etc.

that doesn't mean we couldn't gear back up to do it, or as the example the previous poster used, have Ford re-engineer the model T and produce it, it's just that Ford can't roll model T's off the assembly line today. They would have to go through the development and tooling process again to do it.

Good analogy on the model T by the way.

Originally posted by oceanaut1
It seems there is still doubt about how the moon landing was staged.
In the "moon landing" tapes the US flag is fluttering about via wind. That is impossible!!! in space LOL. Space is zero gravity.
There was no blastoff dust or impression beneath the Apollo spacecraft...again impossible.
There were NO STARS in the background of the images...again impossible.
The camera crosshairs in the photos are partially concealed which means the image was superimposed over the camera crosshairs. Again Impossible!!!
The layout of the lunar surface in the background of the Apollo spacecraft on the "moon" is an exact match to area 51 in the New Mexico desert....this was proven in side by side still photographs.
There is much more evidence though I think those who are still in doubt should see the fake moon landing films once again to see that what I say is true. I wish we did go to the moon. I was lied to as a youngster as well though realize it was done for a much more important mission. ...

Wow. It saddens me that there are still people who cling to these old arguments that "allegedly" prove the moon landing was a hoax. All of this supposed "hoax evidence" that you listed has been debunked for years now (see ngchunter's post for the answers to these).

Like I said, it saddens me to know people still believe in -- and repeat -- this false evidence of a Moon landing hoax.

[edit on 7/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

We are going to Mars now.
It must have been deemed safer than to try the Moon again.
Some will say the radiation toasting on Mars will be medium instead
of the well done on the Moon that we survived so many times in the
past. But that will be up to training or the astronauts. Hopefully they
will be told in advanced the risks involved.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne

Going to Mars has always been the ultimate (yet unfunded) goal of NASA's current Constellation Program -- the program that is now funded to go to the Moon and is currently building the equipment for a manned Moon mission.

In fact, the Constellation Program Logo has three "Worlds" on it, signifying the Earth, The Moon, and Mars:
upload.wikimedia.org...

The idea that NASA wants to go to Mars soon after going to the Moon is not a new idea. The Ares V launch vehicle being designed right now for the manned moon missions is also being designed with the notion that it may one day lift the Manned Mars Mission equipment into space.

[edit on 7/14/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

A lot of interesting thoughts and theories about the space trip i see.. I'd say they never made it up they made a movie just to fool the enemy in east that there were a lot of of chit chat about the moon trip they had been planning and the friends in west, had to make something quick to steal the credit and win the fame but i guess they didn't think about the consequences in the long and how to deal with it so they've only been reserching a way to make the move before the truth gets proved in public and the NASA are marked as liars and such.. well i don't say it's what's going on but i stand for my thoughts this is what i always gets to in the end when trying figure the most logic way, truth.. or how to put it.. i'll apologize for just getting in like this and got these thoughts and not even an american.. nor russian.. just someone searching the truth.. truth about what? well, everything i want to know the answer of how everything is and how it makes it's way just keep going.. it's like time is a circle not a start --- end it all goes around and starts over again.. well now i've been writing too much now you guys get something to laugh about.. my way of write.. my thoughts.. i still haven't got the right way of form meanings choose right words.. but.. when i started try learn i didn't even understand a word.. in school they didn't even bother to try help me learn.. i already had issues with the countys main language and i ended up worthless.. but i learn what i want to learn i know a lot i've been taking in a lot of information from different truths and things like that got a lot of thoughts about right and wrong, true or false but won't get in on any of it here becourse i don't want to make others suffer like i do.. enough sorry guys..

[edit on 26-10-2009 by mr.pain]

reply to post by mr.pain


Participation here is welcome no matter what country you're from and even if English is your second language that's ok too as long as you try your best to write so others can understand even if it's not perfect English, no problem.

But I do have one suggestion to help your writing style:

Try not to post a large post all together in one big chunk like that. unless it's only a few sentences. Try to break it up into organized chunks of thought, into separate paragraphs as this fellow suggests:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Historical-Mozart
Paragraphs

FAR TOO MANY posts have huge blocks of paragraphs, even an entire page that is one freak'n-A paragraph. This one BUGS me, man! Please, for the ease of reading, DO break up your paragraphs and try to keep your paragraphs to six sentences or less. Try to have NO more than seven sentences in any paragraph, please.

I don't necessarily agree that there's anything magic about a rule for a specific number of sentences per paragraph, but the idea of breaking your post up into paragraphs really does help make it easier to read, so thanks for at least considering that.

As for the thread topic and your post, well I'm quite sure we went to the moon, but I'm also reasonably sure we couldn't go back right now without the infrastructure etc to support a trip like we had in the 1960's. We are geared up for Earth orbit missions right now, but just not moon missions, and it would take some time, effort and expense to gear up for trips to the moon.

Regards

Possibilities:

1) They never went to the moon.

2) ET Civilizations do not want us to go back there, we are now in a state of quarantine. They allowed us to leave the planet and explore the moon before thinking this could change our perspective, but instead we continued to engage in wars. We are a threat not just to ET civilizations but also to ourselves. Therefore we must be caged like the alligator we are.

3) NASA wants you to speculate on both of the above, the truth probably is they already have bases there.

4) None of the above.

The question that really neads to be asked is why Ford would want to build a model T. Seen the new mustang? NASA should be able to come up with some pretty snazzy gear to replace a 40 year old rocket. There's not too many 40 year old cars on the road, they don't handle very well and chew gas, then you have to slow them down by putting 120kg on the brake pedal. I don't think NASA plan to copy the Saturn V, just study it to see what could be done better. Seems the most sensible path to take, why is this funny? Sure beats starting from scratch.

[edit on 6-12-2009 by platoman]