Why not an afterlife without a creator god?

I'm definitely not intending to insult Christians (or Muslims) when I ask why is it necessary that the concept of God or Allah (or ?) accompany the idea that we go on after our body stops functioning.

I have to say that I firmly believe that we do continue to exist after our bodies stop working. But I'd rather not express my reasons for believing this.

So my question is whether it is possible that the Good Ship Universe could be sailing without a Captain? Could it be true that the mere fact that something emerged from a complete state of nothingness dictate that there is currently a Captain guiding the universes?

Or is it possible that more than one enlightened creator god runs the show, both physical and spiritual?

Originally posted by droid56
I'm definitely not intending to insult Christians (or Muslims) when I ask why is it necessary that the concept of God or Allah (or ?) accompany the idea that we go on after our body stops functioning.

I happen to believe in a creator God, but I don't think that it it necessary that the concept of life after death need to go hand in hand with a creator God.

It depends on what you mean by an 'afterlife'. I don't believe in Heaven and Hell (the Christian view of it, at least), but I believe in a universal consciousness / spirit / call it what you wish. I also believe in reincarnation and ghosts which could also be considered 'afterlife'.

I can't think of any reason why not. I don't personally believe this is the case, but I think it would make a logical basis for a religion. I am not aware of any religion that believes something like this, though, unless you count the reincarnation in Buddhism.

Originally posted by droid56

So my question is whether it is possible that the Good Ship Universe could be sailing without a Captain? Could it be true that the mere fact that something emerged from a complete state of nothingness dictate that there is currently a Captain guiding the universes?

Well... perhaps the whole notion of a 'captain guiding the Universe' is attributing too much pre-conceived notions onto the Creator God to begin with?...

Also, if something emerged from nothing... doesn't that transcend our human perception of what's possible and impossible altogether? Really anything is possible at that point...

The way I see it, if all Existence was created from 'Nothing', or whether it 'Always Was', is absolutely miraculous either way...

Or is it possible that more than one enlightened creator god runs the show, both physical and spiritual?

I think so. Well, more to the point...

is it possible that every being eventually becomes an enlightened creator God, through death, and together, they ultimately become One

reply to post by DragonsDemesne


Wait reincarnation isn't a belief of Mormonism??...

I thought the Mormon faith taught that we are spirits that Incarnate into human bodies...

because that's the lie that started this mess and lead to your confusion. It was when Lucifer thought the Our Father Understanding of God was just put in place to control him.

Ask why not all you want. We are ALL going to the same place when we leave this mortal crap. None of us TRULY knows what's waiting. That is where faith comes in.

Thus, your question is rather moot...

reply to post by droid56


Are you out of your mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,

Sarcasm intended.

Without God in the after life, Christians will have nothing to live, preach and push for.

They will be like a fish out of the water.

Jesus and God are essential for their survivial.

I know two people who I trust completely who had experiences that they feel leave them with no doubt that our physical reality doesn't tell the whole story. Not even close. One had a near-death experience, and the other had a out-of-body-experience. Both trusted people are fully grounded, with no further unusual experiences.

I have had an experience that was very powerful, that left me with no doubt that non-physical existence is quite possible.

But when I try to imagine a conscious, non-physical creator-God I have problems believing it's true. It's an amzingly huge universe, and that's not including the realms that aren't being aimed at by our telescopes.

God as a being. God as a force. God as a myth. I hope that one of the first two is true.

No, we don't believe in reincarnation, though we do believe that our souls existed before this life. You still only get the one shot at mortality in Mormonism, whereas in Buddhism you keep coming back to Earth over and over, as people, animals, whatever.

The reason I mentioned Buddhism as a specific example is because they don't have any kind of Supreme Being in their religion, but they clearly believe that death is not the end.

Originally posted by DragonsDemesne
No, we don't believe in reincarnation, though we do believe that our souls existed before this life.

So during your pre-existence, while awaiting your incarnation, you're saying you would have only been a spirit? In the sense that you would have only existed as such, without incarnating as a human or something else? Just the once?

So in Mormonism it is the one incarnation into a mortal body. In which case, for that one mortal instance, that fate is hell or heaven eternally?

You still only get the one shot at mortality in Mormonism, whereas in Buddhism you keep coming back to Earth over and over, as people, animals, whatever.

Well, you don't 'keep coming back'. And Buddhism doesn't necessarily specify that it is Earth. It is just that, if you don't transcend, you reincarnate. The goal is to transcend the cycle of reincarnation.

The reason I mentioned Buddhism as a specific example is because they don't have any kind of Supreme Being in their religion, but they clearly believe that death is not the end.

All religion and spiritual belief suggest death is not the end.

As far as a 'supreme being', Buddhism belief could be interpreted as such in the sense that it believes that there is a higher force and awareness that transcends and contains all existence. It really comes down to how you define 'supreme being'. Buddhism just makes it less personal and humanistic then Mormonism would.

reply to post by droid56


i agree, why not?

why can't an afterlife be merely the progression of a natural process as opposed to a supernatural occurrence?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Most people that believe in supernatural things believe it to be a natural process.

The word supernatural may have a negative stigma attached to it, but really all it means is that it's outside the realm of current scientific understanding.

Nice that you all think you can exist without your bodies.
There is no way to know that.
People do not come back from being dead to tell us about it.
There are stories that sound convincing, of children having memories of past lives, for no apparent reason.
They also have visions of ghosts.
These things happen.
My sister's daughter, when she was small, had a person who was appearing to be a dead man, come into her room, at night.
She quit sleeping in that room and wanted nothing to do with him.
Not every child is like that.
There may be some who would welcome someone like that and find out whatever he had to tell them.
They could take these stories for their own and be able to talk about things they would not otherwise know anything about.
That is not proof of reincarnation.
If you want to go around thinking that you are some sort of god-like creature who is immortal and in need of nothing greater than yourself, then you are delusional and you need to get over it.

reply to post by DragonsDemesne


So Mormons are fine with talking about their faith from the door of the unsuspecting person, but not in a forum discussion?

Guess i'll ask the next one that comes to my door... next week...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Nice that you all think you can exist without your bodies.
There is no way to know that.

Nice that you think there is a way to know that it is not so...

People do not come back from being dead to tell us about it.

Clinical death?

Yes they do. There is many, many accounts of people describing experiences they have had post-death (as defined by neuroscience and relevant fields).

There are stories that sound convincing, of children having memories of past lives, for no apparent reason.

The apparent reason is that they have spirits, and the spirit exists prior to birth. This is a paramount idea for most religions and spiritual beliefs. Including most flavors of Christianity.

They also have visions of ghosts.
These things happen.

Yes they do.

My sister's daughter, when she was small, had a person who was appearing to be a dead man, come into her room, at night.
She quit sleeping in that room and wanted nothing to do with him.
Not every child is like that.
There may be some who would welcome someone like that and find out whatever he had to tell them.
They could take these stories for their own and be able to talk about things they would not otherwise know anything about.
That is not proof of reincarnation.

Fair enough. But why have you determined otherwise? Why is it not evidence?

If you want to go around thinking that you are some sort of god-like creature

Made in the 'image of God' would imply as much..

But fine, if you want to go around thinking you are not =]

who is immortal and in need of nothing greater than yourself, then you are delusional and you need to get over it.

Doesn't Christianity state that you are immortal if you are good in heart and follow the path of Christ??

And what's with the "in need of nothing greater then yourself"? How did you infer that from the OP?

So during your pre-existence, while awaiting your incarnation, you're saying you would have only been a spirit? In the sense that you would have only existed as such, without incarnating as a human or something else? Just the once?

Exactly.

So in Mormonism it is the one incarnation into a mortal body. In which case, for that one mortal instance, that fate is hell or heaven eternally?

Yup.

You still only get the one shot at mortality in Mormonism, whereas in Buddhism you keep coming back to Earth over and over, as people, animals, whatever.

Well, you don't 'keep coming back'. And Buddhism doesn't necessarily specify that it is Earth. It is just that, if you don't transcend, you reincarnate. The goal is to transcend the cycle of reincarnation.

Yeah, true enough. The goal is to escape the cycle. I never thought about reincarnating off of Earth, though.

So Mormons are fine with talking about their faith from the door of the unsuspecting person, but not in a forum discussion?

Guess i'll ask the next one that comes to my door... next week...

Sorry :p Each time I looked at the thread in my favourites list, I saw "Lucid Lunacy" as the last post, and I assumed that the thread was dead, not realizing until the thread showed up after a thread in which I was the last poster that it was actually the fact that you had replied multiple times.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


You can not prove a negative, so I do not have any evidence to show you to prove that you do not continue on, after death.
It is just the lack of convincing evidence that such a thing happens.
We do not see it as a part of our daily lives, unless you include popular TV shows.
Clinical death is not absolute death, so that is not a good argument.
We do not exist as spirits, before we are born.
We are given a spirit, when we are born, and God can impart knowledge to that spirit, if He chooses to do so.
It could be a jump start to get us going, in the womb, to give us a self awareness.
When I say Ghosts, that is a word that people use to describe these things but it may not be an accurate description.
There may be extra-dimensional beings, but I do not pretend to understand exactly what they are.
I do know they have a limited ability to interact with humans, for good or bad purpose.
So they could, in certain circumstances have an influence on some children, to think whatever they want them to.
So, if a child believes it has memories of a past life, they be just planted by these beings.
That is why I can not accept these stories as proof of reincarnation.
There is a part of us that would want to believe that it is real, but we have to get above the feeling level.
OK, so we were created in God's image, but that does not give us the powers of God.
There are segments of Christianity that would like for you to be concerned about your immortal soul.
A better way of thinking about this sort of thing, is to be concerned about throwing away an opportunity to be given immortality, as part of God's plan to restore humanity.
I did get the idea that some people like the idea of being able to have an afterlife, on our own power, without any assistance from God.
I thought that was implicit in the title.

[edit on 5-6-2008 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


it actually means that it's outside of the realm of the scientific process
period.

almost all that believe in any sort of god believe it is beyond scientific understanding and able to directly contradict logical analysis.