What if we just leave the planet?

Note: I have been wanting to address this for weeks now, but maybe it took a Sunday off to really be able to put this into words, and I hope you find it a provoking argument worthy of discussion. -Jason


In our country, we have many divided groups. We operate under the premise that our government and our religion are kept separate. And yet one cannot remove ones religion from their personality and the decisions they make daily. While some profess this, like Pres. Bush, others run from it, like Sen. Obama.

Our laws are permeated in every state with the preferential rule of those that are democratically represented, in some cases including those influenced by their faith.

Largely divisive issues have taken hold of our political world, ranging from abortion to gun rights, government spending to deficit reduction, and Gay rights to, well, non-gay rights(?).

Faith and religion are words that can be used as well, to describe those that affix to a strictly hedonistic lifestyle, or even those that choose agnosticism but fervently follow an alternative lifestyle. Religion, in my comparison, is a mandate and structure by which one bases his or her moral compass and lifestyle choices.

Therefore, seeing as we, in the U.S of A., are merely a representation of the world at large, there exists a larger world-wide conflict on these varying views. With only one peaceful theocracy in existence at this point, (the Vatican), most within the world will view regimes that mandate an exclusive theocracy, one which eliminates all opposers, as brutal and oppressive.

People around the world are taught that tolerance and diversity will foster a peaceful understanding among the countries and groups of this world.

But our country has highlighted two key problems with this in the last ten years.
With our "war against terror", we have put a spotlight on a part of the world that many knew little about. Sure, the taliban was put out as an enemy, using their oppressive treatment of women and religious dissenters, but what about our friends the Saudis? There are many places in this world, where their religious views hold no room for what western culture and ideas bring to them. They have no desire to desegregate their societies, and because they feel vindicated by their religion, they will not ever do so.

Secondly, with the recent attacks on the FLDS in Texas, and the recent fights over Gay rights in this country, we have seen that their are those that do not wish to have certain lifestyles pushed on them. Many christians feel the gay lifestyle to be against their very core, and wish to be away from this. Yet gays have as much a right to freedom in this country as others do. The FLDS wanted to lead an alternative lifestyle, yet they cannot because there is no where they can go to practice what they consider to be "normal". Again, using the entire world as a barometer, the FLDS are actually quite sane and liberated.

So this brings me to my question. I was going to use an analogy of a country, but realized that there was no way that I could make that work due to the territories already in existence. We can't split into 500 states, and we can't move everyone around into new control zones. And what if someone in an extreme muslim community was gay, and they wanted to stone him. What are the varying rights of the people?

So instead, lets say that tomorrow, we wake up and find that there are 30,000 earth type planets discovered, and better yet, we have all got the means to go to which ever one we want. So all the different groups begin to lay claim to each planet, with every varying belief and lifestyle. Each planet, independently, has it's own views and rules. Would that work? With todays technology, if some group took a whole planet under it's wings, with a few hundred thousand people, they could establish and maintain any laws they wanted. A science based community, a Vegas type one, or even Gay planet. Plus, every religious group would get their own.

But would the people on Gay planet be able to accept the fact that there were repressed Gays on Protestant planet 109, or that Planet Islam 146 was killing all their gays who came out?

Would the third generation on Planet Washington be able to let the third generation on Planet Mao live under the communist regime, never knowing democracy?

My point, is there any way, without a one world government and forced indoctrination, that people would be able to just live their own lifestyles and governments and social norms without having to alter or compromise their views for others? Remember, that even though we have separation of church and state, there will never be truly "progressive" reforms in this country without first trampling on the views of over half the tax paying and voting public. There are many that view this as happening today.

So is it possible that there might ever be a point where we truly allow those with differing views to lead differing lifestyles? Where there may be a Theocracy, whatever your religion, Jewish or Pop-culture?



[edit on 1-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 1-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

[edit on 1-6-2008 by jasonjnelson]

So is it that I need to work on my titles, or my writing?
Or maybe it's both?

Writing is fine, you could make clearer paragraphs by putting in a space rather than just ending the line, so you don't loose you're spot

I understand your point but I think in practice that would only show how much of a sad, pathetic species we really are. Places like you're talking about did exist, in Europe during the middle ages. Everyone was Catholic or Christian, they fallowed the word of God as law where most things were punishable by death and/or torture. Other ways of thinking were not allowed and there was no appealing these laws, no second chances, no interpretation.

If you were part of another religion or set of value or colour of skin that wasn't white, you would congregate elsewhere and have you own setup.

What you're looking for is a place in history rather than a place in the universe (if they're different). If things started out that way on separate planets, as in this experiment was forced, I would think (like to) that eventually people would start to ask questions about the people on the other planets they've heard about.

Who are they? How are they different? Can we talk to them? Can we meet? I want to leave and goto that planet.
Sort of like the situation we have now with other worldly beings, they'll be very different from us, I think some will fight their ideals, others will ask to be taken with them.

Some people embrace change, others reject it but its the ones who do who push us all forward.

[edit on 1/6/08 by 1-Cent]

Just come and live in the UK, we are probably the most tolerant nation on earth when it comes to religion or lack of it.

We were lucky that Henry the Eighth kicked the papists out of good old Blighty a long time ago.

The majority of Britons could'nt give a rats ass what religion you are/were. Religion plays no major part in our lifestyle. Saying that you are C of E (Church of England) is just another way of saying you are atheist here in the UK for a lot of people. Though even nowadays more and more people are actually putting down 'no religion' or atheist on official documents. A lot of this is in part due to the fact that we are 'signed up' to the UN Human Rights Act and all official documents now reflect that fact.

reply to post by Wotan


But what about those that want religion? Or what about the difference between all of the non-religious masses? Remember, that a lot of beliefs are also tied up in their intolerance of other's beliefs. This keeps many thing that one side wants or needs form truly being carried out.

reply to post by 1-Cent


I think that you may be on to something with the whole place in history, however I see a small problem. Advances are made through conflict, advancements of all kinds. Being as man is such an insular being in many ways, it seems plausible to promote the idea that maybe you have to go back to the very beginnings, and spoon feed man so that they never see adversity. Adversity has been behind the creation of many religions and belief systems.

Nothing wrong with either the title or your writing, in my opinion. Interesting read, thank you for posting it.

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by Wotan

 

But what about those that want religion? Or what about the difference between all of the non-religious masses? Remember, that a lot of beliefs are also tied up in their intolerance of other's beliefs. This keeps many thing that one side wants or needs form truly being carried out.

They can still have their religion if thats what they want .... do it in private. Just dont ram it down my throat, thankyou. Its all about tolerance and not inflicting on anyone else. If we all lived by that rule, the world would be a much better place ..... religion has a lot to answer for imo.

reply to post by Wotan

Actually, I am talking about the conflict between one's religious beliefs, and the things that are forced down their throat in public. If someone is anti nudity, or excessive exposure, they have to branch themselves off from the public in order to practice that belief. It's not just about religion, as I mentioned earlier that I consider all lifestyles to be a religion of sorts.

I think that a lot of people forget that although we seem really similar, the truth is that our lifestyles and beliefs are beyond different in so many ways....

reply to post by Wotan


Good to see the application of common sense, we really don't give a rats arse about religion, God I love britain

Really? This is all that you people had to say about this thread? (shrugs) mmmkay....
Well, I won't stop writing. I will just stop writing badly, lol...

reply to post by jasonjnelson


It is not your writing, but the idea itself is much too advanced for today’s views.
When we’ll finally decide to grow up past the present wars for influence and power, past endless bickering about whose God is better, it only makes sense that probably the new colonies will be made up from a majority of people with the same belief system.

I see two possible outcomes.

We have the technology to travel, but we are still ignorant and we will duplicate the endless problems wee have now on Earth to a much bigger scale. To answer your question directly : no, I don’t think that the Gay planet will accept the views of the Planet Islam, and that they will fight against each other until destruction kills all opponents.


We have the technology but also the brains to put behind us the present state of affairs.
In that case, I see no problem for everyone to coexist peacefully, and if someone decides to change his/her views or belief system is just a change of address (planet) .How cool will that be?

” So is it possible that there might ever be a point where we truly allow those with differing views to lead differing lifestyles? Where there may be a Theocracy, whatever your religion, Jewish or Pop-culture?”

When we’ll not know anymore what it means to try to push our own struggle for power unto our neighbors,
When we’ll all stop thinking that “I am right and only I have the answers”,
When we’ll learn to mind our own business and let others leave according to their values, and we will accept the fact that "other" values exist,
When we’ll stop believing that aliens are either our space brothers or our evils,
…..yes, it will be possible. I have to hope the human race will prevail, but then again…only if we grow up.

wikid post,

straight up i can think of a load of different groups i'd love to send packing off to different locations outside this solar system right now. we could probably get rid of a whole useless third of our population..

more seriously though i cant see these groups making it on their own.. a planet full of gays.. would last long i'd guess about one generation if my math is correct.. guess it wouldn't take long till they started missin all the gay bashing either..

it is our diversity which gives us our drive.. without it we learn too slowly.,

we should be thankful

peace n luv
daz

There are those who would stop mankind from going to other planets. They do not want us to pollute these pristene enviroments. They are either very ignorant or very enlightened, I can't decide.

wtf makes you think that you could run two planets if you're too dumb to survive on one.

it's beyond known tech, too, but i presume you mean presumed pitch black antigrav varieties, don't you?

I think the idea is interesting, but doesn't get to the root of the differences within humanity. I feel that we are driven to find differences, because each of us is only really focused on ourselves. We can't jump into another person's mind and soul, so we never really recognize the fact that every single individual on this planet is actually living their own life and is just as important/meaningless as the next person and ourselves.

Even if we did go to different planets based on a "belief", we would find differences within those beliefs. Look at every "group" on the planet. None of them are 100% in agreement with every aspect of their belief system. Humanity, regardless of the traits we apply to ourselves, is the same and different. We are the same in that we each try to differentiate ourselves from each other, for ultimately only "your" life matters to "you". However, we are different in that the expression of this need to be an individual gets expressed in a variety of ways based on geographical location, popular/unpopular religion in your area, socio-economic status, etc.

So in my opinion, if we were on other planets, absolutely nothing would change. People with differing ideas would be born on the planet, and even if they relocated to another planet, you'd have one planet think the other planet shouldn't live, so they'd invade. Everything would be the exact same as it is now, it's just the distances would be greater. I don't know what the answer to our problems are, but I think that trying to separate ourselves by any trait is merely creating a short term solution to a much deeper seeded problem within all of humanity.

Originally posted by dragonfire2159
So in my opinion, if we were on other planets, absolutely nothing would change. People with differing ideas would be born on the planet, and even if they relocated to another planet, you'd have one planet think the other planet shouldn't live, so they'd invade.

This is where i disagree,just because i am a hopeless optimist

Even though you raise interesting points and you are right.Even within groups who hold the same general views there are differences.But i think that if these differences are not major, eventually an equilibrium could be found for progress.

I think it's a good thing that we are not all the same,or feel the same. But i also think that we can leave together.Centuries ago we killed each other because of our differences.Nowadays,not so much anymore.I see progress,albeit,at much lower pace that i would like.

I try to keep an open mind and hope that if someone will be born in the future,on a different planet/colony,who does not hold the same views as the majority,that someone will not be harmed or killed.I think that we can get there,if we allow ourself enough time to learn and understand.

To Long Lance :
With all due respect,i don't get your atitude or your logic. We're not dead yet,and i don't buy the "end of the world" concept or the fear promulgated by religion or our gouvernments lately.And i don't believe we're so "dumb" either.

Maybe i'm wrong,but if we lose hope on our abilities,what else is left ?

Polluting pristine environments ?
Well,thinking like some humans do today,maybe that will be the case.But there are also a lot of us who do not pollute,or at least try very hard no too. Give us a few more years,and we'll get better.Give humanity a few more centuries,maybe it will get better.Why think only as we do today ?

reply to post by Bursuc


I wouldn't say it's hopeless optimism. I'm just skewed as I am a bit of a pessimist by nature . I agree that our differences are great, life would be so boring if we were all identical. I think that history shows that those who stick out or go against the grain usually get squashed pretty quickly. I know at first differences wouldn't be too large between "like minded" individuals, but after a generation or two, those differences will grow, and then it'll turn into another Earth.

I also think that we do still kill individuals who don't think like us, as with the constant "conflicts" going on throughout the world and the genocides that continue today. On another note, we take away rights and freedoms from others who do not follow "normal" behavior, as in gay rights. Until we learn to accept all differences, we will always find something to justify discrimination. Thanks for the reply. Hopefully one day people will look back on history and feel stupid for fighting over differences for so long. Peace out, and keep up the optimism, you help balance out the pessimists like me.

reply to post by dragonfire2159


Actually, I expect space will be more of a melting pot of types and ideals than a separation point. America was the last mass destination of Europe, and extra solar planets would be ten times this, IMO.

Certain groups will always seclude themselves in some way, just as the Amish do to this day. But on the whole, I expect that racial and national origine will have less meaning when Earth is considered the home we left, and not some small tribal nation.

Just my $0.02