So if the buildings where brought down by explosion

reply to post by Griff


lol i think i get what youre saying, im just unsure if youre asking me specifically or if i just happen to be the person youre discussing this with when asking the question to a general audience.

IF youre asking me specifically, im confused as to why you think i would have ANY idea or basis from which to give you a real answer.

i can tell you it likely wont blow it up...but thats about it. though id really hope you knew that already

ok, just read your last post, i "THINK" we're more clear now...

of course, i could be wrong there as well

reply to post by Damocles


I think that part was not specifically addressing you but the universal "you". I do that sometimes. My bad.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

You did not see about the JET FUEL CUTTERS?

No, I haven't. Care to elaborate more on that?

I did some searching and found oxy-gasoline cutters. Is that what you're talking about?

My question with this is how would they have implemented it? As you know, the reason why pretty much all cutters have a single, point flame is to concentrate the energy of the heat. This would mean that to make this idea work, a mechanism to draw the nozzle across the beam would have to be made (to eliminate the need for a person to manual cut all the beams).

The only other type of "cutter" I can think of is just strapping a pack of jet fuel onto the beams under a focusing device and detonating them. But then again, you claim that jet fuel can't burn hot enough to melt steel. Plus there are many, many more explosives that are much more reliable, as Griff might be able to tell you.

[edit on 15-6-2008 by HLR53K]

Originally posted by HLR53K
Plus there are many, many more explosives that are much more reliable, as Griff might be able to tell you.

well im not griff but i hope you dont mind my 2 cents.

as some may be willing to corroborate, i have actually done some theoretical calculations for demo on the wtc towers to see if it was even feasable to drop them with HE and still have everything fall within what was observed.

i like to think i am (was) pretty good at this sort of thing and i couldnt find a way to do it and keep it covert.

but, when i DID do calculations, rather than using MASSIVE C4 or TNT charges i tended to do my calculations using these. "these" are linear shaped charges and are about the most efficient way to do it ive been able to find. (i REFUSE to use stuff "they" might have because its speculation, it would have to have an RE factor of 50, and if we have to speculate then we might just as well start claiming it was a cloaked Klingon bird of prey so ill stick with facts)

IF i had been chosen to pull this off, those LSC's are what id have used and i think they are what any Demo guy that still has both hands/feet/eyes and all his fingers would have chosen to do the job.

Originally posted by Damocles
well im not griff but i hope you dont mind my 2 cents.

You're the explosives expert around here. Not me.

Originally posted by Griff
You're the explosives expert around here. Not me.

or government shill/disinfo agent depending on who you ask and on what day i suppose.

i have often wondered what would have happened if i had thought that the towers were a CD with my backround....lol id be a prophet in the religion.

(no offense to those who are seeking the truth but are not part of the "religion". there is a difference and i do acknowledge and respect that difference)

Originally posted by Damocles

Originally posted by Griff
You're the explosives expert around here. Not me.

or government shill/disinfo agent depending on who you ask and on what day i suppose.

i have often wondered what would have happened if i had thought that the towers were a CD with my backround....lol id be a prophet in the religion.

(no offense to those who are seeking the truth but are not part of the "religion". there is a difference and i do acknowledge and respect that difference)

Haha! My apologies, Damocles. You're the explosives expert here. Good information!

reply to post by HLR53K


lol no apology necessary, you asked a question of griff and i just thought id throw my own slant on it out there as well.

Highly trained and funded Israeli Mossad agents were responsible for the actual twin towers implosion and dual Israeli/American citizens working in collusion with CIA moles and other govt. agencies of whom were the organizers. Israeli Mossad agents were caught in a van filming before and after the towers collapsed. When first discovered by police...they were thought to be Arabs because they wore Arab attire and were jumping up and down and rejoicing in the tragedy....the disguised suspects were subsequently released by the order of Israeli/American dual citizens in HIGH levels of govt. and immediately FLED the country without questioning with no investigation. This was a FALSE FLAG operation organized by Israel and pinned on the Arabs to give more credence to the NWO and to give justification to establish US troops in IRAQ to DEFEND Israel....a kind of in house BIG Brother to watch over the tiny country of Israel surrounded by enemies who have had enough of Israel imposing on more and more land around the original Israeli borders set after WW2 by the US and England. The 9/11 commission was covered up by those put in charge of it of whom....you guessed it....also had close ties/dual citizenship....and constant contact with Israel. You may find the proofs if you search online though I won't post them hear since they have a way of "disappearing" when I or another posts anything about the Mossad and 9/11. You would be amazed how many Defense Dept. officials, Homeland Security officials, Senate, CIA, NSA, Secret Service, FBI officials, Fed Reserve board members, leaders of many of the worlds largest corporations and heads of the worlds largest LEGAL firms etc. are both Israeli and American citizens. Dual citizens should have NO ROLE in the operations of our govt. for they always put the interest of Israel over their "home" country. Did you know if one commits a crime here in the US or anywhere for that matter....and the criminal has Israeli citizenship.....they can legally hide themselves and their assets in Israel whether acquired by fraud or any other means. Thats right, they have NONEXTRADITION and can hideout in Israel even if they aren't official Israeli citizens...as long as they can prove there Jewish lineage. Many of the worlds biggest financial criminals reside on Haifa street in Israel and recruit former Israeli officers (who've sworn loyalty to Israel) in leadership postions around the world.
On another note, have you noticed how most financial criminals of which are mostly Isaeli citizens including most brokerage firms pay small fines, admit no guilt and continue on defrauding the average American investor after every financial fraud? Ask yourself why? DIGG more...too much to say on these related topics.
The message above is not written to inspire hate for Jews (there are many good and well meaning Jews..especially the younger generations) but rather to WARN Americans about what is/has really gone on with the relationship between Israel and the US. AIPAC and many other pro Israel organizations have really hurt the average American and their individual rights in every way. I can only touch on these topics here. It is important at this time for those to discover the truth for themselves and DEMAND our leaders to have spine and eliminate any threats to the American citizens. Expose the truth...and the truth will set you free. The problem is....the truth has been concealed for obvious reasons and not for the benefit of the average American. Rid yourself of Israel's influence with American politics, finance, defense etc. and you can call yourself a true American. Both sides of my family have been in America since the mid to late 1700's and though much is known among the inner circles...it is not exposed due to career suicide, physical threats etc. though most US political officials are influenced to keep their mouths shut by intelligence gathering on those officials and the subsequent blackmailing

reply to post by ianr5741


There is NO evidence of a CD at the WTC complex on 9/11. Are you privy to information the rest of us aren't? What characteristics of the collapses of WTC 1,2 and 7 fit a CD? Your claim that the collapse was "IMPOSSIBLE without explosives" floors me. Here's a link to a report done by the company called Protec that sponsors and runs the website implosionworld.com:

www.implosionworld.com...

The report analyzes the collapses of WTC 1,2 and 7 from a contolled demoltion standpoint only. They do not offer support for any theories and only wish to dispute that WTC 1,2 and 7 were not brought down by controlled demoliton. According to the website, "Protec is one of the world's most knowledgable independant authorities on explosive demoltion, having performed engineering studies, structure analysis, vibration/air overpressure moitoring and photographic services on well over 1,000 structure blasting events in over 30 countries." I think that after you read the report that you will realize that most industry experts do not support the CD claim. You will also see that Protec is in a unique position to comment and analyze the events on 9/11 since they were heavly involved with monitoring the attacks (they had seismographs in Brooklyn and Manhattan monitoring construction sites on 9/11, which picked up the attacks) and in the weeks following the attacks by supporting clean-up operations. This is a highly reccommeded read as it is rather short (12 pages) and is written in a language more suitable to someone not very famliar with verbage and techinical names used in the demolition industry.

If you can offer evidence that any of the characterstics of the collapses of WTC's 1,2 and 7 fit a controlled demo I would love to see it. So far, all I've seen are claims that are refuted by industry experts. Yet, "truthers" believe that they can better decide that WTC's 1,2 and 7 were never in any danger of collapse and that the big-bad gov't ordered the buildings demolished. Please

reply to post by LEAP STICK


The fuel from airliners was spent within ten minutes or so. The rest of the burn was residual. There is no logical explanation why open-air fires of relatively low intensity should have melted steel. I will grant that the fires were somewhat widepread, but this still does not account for the unprecedented global failureS. Furthermore, this certainly does nothing to explain WTC7 either.

Also keep in mind that one of the Twin Towers burned for hours, on several floors, back in 1975. This was back before fire codes even required a sprinkler system, which the buildings did not even have at the time.

reply to post by fo694013


Welcome new memeber!

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by LEAP STICK

 

The fuel from airliners was spent within ten minutes or so. The rest of the burn was residual. There is no logical explanation why open-air fires of relatively low intensity should have melted steel. I will grant that the fires were somewhat widepread, but this still does not account for the unprecedented global failureS. Furthermore, this certainly does nothing to explain WTC7 either.

Also keep in mind that one of the Twin Towers burned for hours, on several floors, back in 1975. This was back before fire codes even required a sprinkler system, which the buildings did not even have at the time.

Okay, it is true that the jet fuel was burned off within 10 minutes after the plane impacted. However, according to the NIST report, 70% of the jet fuel (approx. 7,000 gallons) was spread throughtout the impacted floors. As for your assertion that the fires could not have melted steel, this is correct. However, this is not, nor has it ever been the official explianation for the failure of the steel trusses in the WTC Towers. I won't go into that here, but I will in another post if you wish. I'm assuming that you are basing the claim that "open air fires of relatively low-intesity" could not have caused the collapse off of the same claim made by Dr. Steven Jones. Dr. Jones claim that the black smoke coming from the WTC towers indicate that the fires were oxygen starved, thus they were too weak to do any damage. In fact, black smoke, in this case, indicates the opposite. The fires were fueled by jet fuel and mostly plastic-based office equipment, both of which are hydrocarbons with extremely high rates of heat-release and therefore produce arid, black smoke.

Now onto your reference to the 1975 WTC fire. Apples and Oranges my friend. They are two totally different events with two totally different circumstances. This reminds me of the argument about the B-25 hitting the Empire State Building in 1945 and trying to compare it to the 767's used on 9/11

First of all, the fire in 1975 was mainly on one floor, the 11th floor of the north tower. Although five other floors were affected, the fires on those floors were brought under control very quickly. The main fire was put out after 3 hours. The main difference between the two being that the WTC's on 9/11 were hit with 200 ton planes. The planes, when they impacted, blew off most of the fire-proofing material used on the critical floor trusses on the impacted floors. The fire-proofing on the floors in 1975 was not affected by external forces and preserved the structural integrity of the building during the time it took to put out the fire.

Archived NY Times article dated Feb. 14, 1975:
www.nytimes.com...

How can you ignore the plane impacts? Do you not realize how much damage they caused? "Truthers" tend to forget that when they try to argue about "how the towers should not have falled from fire alone." You're right, they should not have fallen from fire alone and they didn't. They fell from the combination of uncontrolled fires and the devastating impacts from the 767's.

Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by fo694013

 

Welcome new memeber!

Thanks for the welcome!

The new and developing 9/11 investigative panel (if not thwarted) should focus on the numerous trace elements of THERMITE found at the site among many, many other proofs of misinformation and other items of evidence from the destruction of the WTC. There are documented and investigated reports....currently concealed from the general public of which will at some point will see the light of day...myself and others are working on this becoming public knowledge...in order to expose the true intent of the "terrorists" and their agenda. This is true and you will probably hear of this evidence in the near future...you will over my live body. Thermite is used for one purpose; for demolitionists to implode buildings....at their base structures...simultaneously....to create a controlled stack by stack collapse of multiple levels (of a building/structure) so the building falls straight down so as not to impact neighboring structures. Now the question remains as to which govt. officials knew what and when though there is abundant evidence that the whole 9/11 scenario just happened to take place during the same day (9/11) that a war games episode was taking place and air traffic control was frequently asking/verifying if the objects in the sky were real world or part of the war game they had prior knowledge of occuring on the date of 9/11. That was part of the plan...confusion...just like Pearl Harbor...remember all that intelligence that was put aside?...if you don't....you should...google it...its there. 9/11 was organized by Israel and it's dual Israeli/American citizens of which serve in leadership positions in every govt. office I can think of including Homeland security, DOD, CIA, FBI, NSA, Secret Service and a whole host of other govt. institutions of which have representives of whom owe their loyalty to Israel before America. Many of these "agents" were prior Israeli officers of whom swore loyalty to Israel though are sent to strategic outposts/positions within the US govt. for intelligence gathering procedures with the intent of the protection of Israel and control to be maintained by the international banking families of whom really control the worlds finances via providing govt. loans, bribing politicians, blackmailing politicians (from intelligence gathering) and outright threats and even assassinations. I have taken the necessary precautions for relaying these messages and log, investigate as well as prosecute any violations to my privacy...which is still a fundamental right in Bill of Rights regardless of what "Homeland Security" has to say about it. If someone wants to bring me down....I'll act first as I should. If anyone tries to threaten you posters with scrutiny and violating your right to privacy and freedom of speech...turn the tables on the culprits and you might be surprised not only in what you find out....in your inquisition but in your new found powers to expose those that threaten America and it's freedoms. Never threaten these people....expose them...then prosecute them after you inform those around you as well as those trusted authorities of whom supposedly govern your affairs. Most importantly TAKE ACTION before your rights are further jeopardized. Never, EVER give up your weapons regardless of what any human being..badge or not tells you to do....defending yourself is your fundamental, inherent and natural right. May America rediscover its independence and liberty and once again provide a means of discovering freedom once again. Americans should travel more to gain appreciation of how much they have for I truly believe alot of Americas liberties are taken for granted by those who know not of life in most of the worlds economies. Homeland Security is eroding the rights of the everyday American. Stop it by insisting that only American born citizens...not dual citizens (spies) can take govt. offices. Rid Israel from tampering with American decision making and you get back much of your freedom.

reply to post by oceanaut1


From what I've found on the use of thermite, no demolition people use it for this purpose or any other purpose for that matter. Seems it has only been put forward as a possibility in the case of the WTC because it's quiet so it somehow fits in with the the lack of the earthshakingly loud explosions it would take to dismember the huge steel skeleton of such buildings.

Can anyone provide links to examples of thermite being used for building demolition?

Take your pick. Below is an excerpt as well as multiple links. Insist on the continuation of the new 9/11 investigation. Don't let these terrorists get away with their deception and murder of 1000s of innocent US citizens!!!!!! Get involved now. Write your congressmen, senators, forward emails disclosing truths. Get everyone you know involved in this. It's too important to ignore and more importantly don't let them get away with this fraud, deception, murderous false flag operation.
Jones also told the Deseret News that sulfur traces found at ground zero indicates the thermite was combined with sulphur to make it burn even hotter than the normal 2500 degrees Celsius.

Jones stated that thermite was a "clever" choice because its ingredients, aluminum and iron oxide do not require identifying tags by law, meaning they couldn't be traced back to their manufacturers.

Watch the following video and observe how thermite completely melts a car engine in a matter of seconds, without the addition of sulphur, and also completely resists neutralization by liquid nitrogen. Notice how the dripping substance is identical to that seen in the south tower video.
www.prisonplanet.com...
www.americanfreepress.net...
www.rense.com...

www.whatreallyhappened.com...
Google on for more.

reply to post by oceanaut1


ok, lets try this instead.

cuz, as a "demo guy" in the army, we didnt use "thermite cutters" and honestly had never heard of them.

so, can you or anyone post a link to a manufactuers website that will give me the "tech specs" on these thermite cutters? cuz someone has to manufacture them if they are so much a part of the demo industry right?

seems then we should be able to find out who makes them, and the tech details of them without a lot of problem right?

cuz i cant seem to find anything and never have been able to.

how about just a video of a thermite cutter cutting through a 2" steel plate horizontallywhile the steel plate is vertical? can anyone show me that?

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Damocles]

reply to post by oceanaut1


Now I could be wrong (it happens a lot) but I'm fairly certain thermate does not burn any hotter than standard thermite and it possibly burns a little cooler. It exploits a chemistry 'trick' to attack steel quickly by sulfidising the surface of the steel and the iron sulfide then melts at a much lower temperature than the raw steel would.