Subterranean Worlds

here's a link to Capppodocia,it's a very interesting syatem of underground habitatas ,that was used for centuries. Trouble is you still need acess to food from above even tough they had water air sanitation and light

trouble is it gives you Mesothileoma Cappadocia


Our species is radically unsuited to living underground ,ask a miner

did you see that thing on tv about about the cave of giant crystals in Mexico?

it's so hot that miners can barely stay down there and it's like a mile down in the earth the deeper you go the hotter it gets. Check into salt mines in Poland same thing to hot to handle

As you go deeper of course it gets hotter, much hotter. Heat has been the main limiter of deep mines. Besides needing light for vitamin production the lack of sunlight causes mental problems for many if not all humans. We are creatures who evolved under the sun and we do best as diurnal and not nocturnal.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Karras

If not an advanced civilization then certainly SOME type of creatures I would guess.
But the pretense of the majority is that only the surface of earth is relevant.

For me it's not so much that underground is not relevant but would require an entirely different lifestyle and way of thinking. That's a tall order.

Trying to imagine living in a deep cave somewhere has definite appeal in these uncertain political and economic times but I just can't wrap my head around it. What would you eat? That would be a huge concern.

There might be potable water but it's probably so full of minerals that our kidneys would have apoplectic fits.

Only those with specialized equipment and endless resources from above ground (ie: the government) could carry out such a task as building underground cities and making them habitable.

I'm very interested in subterranean "worlds" but it seems that every time someone finds a really cool cavern, the authorities seal it off, block the road, post guards, seal it up, etc.

Cool thread, btw. As always. S&F

I'm very interested in subterranean "worlds" but it seems that every time someone finds a really cool cavern, the authorities seal it off, block the road, post guards, seal it up, etc.

An interesting claim. May I make a suggestion? Go to the caving and spelunking sites and ask them if this is in fact taking place.

They should be the guys that would know, you could also see if its country specific or global.

An interesting experiment.

As a quick add on...

That was the highest level of Aquifer in the state, despite being under ground, In essence I was still a few thousand feet above sea level.

Why i''l be going back is because it's the right amount of water for there to be... yet another system of drainage down somewhere in that lake for yet a way down to another level.

That both scares the heck out of me and fascinates me.

Because I know 2 thing about the area.

1: There is yet another aquifer under this one, wells pump from a second location in places from a spot around the 1 mile + mark, this had to be a good 2,500-3,000 feet, the next at over a mile which is sea level...

The water gets down there, theres a spill zone in that place somewhere to the next level

2: the Govt also keeps a base on the rim, Multiples in AZ actually, It's in that book Richard Sauder, PhD "Underground Bases and Tunnels (What is the Government trying to Hide) multiple bases and the near by one is

just over a mile underground

So depths of the next water level matches where I am sure given what I know from those who drill wells, is the next aquifer level, they definitely given depths are putting these bases right on the underground lakes where the natural caverns are.

Belief in a subterranean world has been handed down as myth, tale or rumor for generations from all over the world. Some of these stories date back to ancient times such as Socrates referring to huge hollows within the earth, inhabited by man. The Hopis Indians believed they emerged from a world below the earth through a tunnel at the base of the San Francisco peaks near Flagstaff, Arizona.

I'll say this much... MY Loc, is inbetween the San Fransisco Peaks and the Mile plus deep base East of Winslow

I was still a couple thousand feet above that set of caverns though in what i'm describing

I am willing to bet...

That Layer extends through veins and chanmbers all the way through the rim into New Mexico and the surrounding caverns including Dulce, Through the Grand Canyon systems out to are 51, under Cali to various locations...


The things thats scary though is, to go that far down would mean... maybe not being able to get back up, I'd be going against a flow of water going down trying to come back up to the first layer unless I find a dry tunnel...

and I doubt that would happen, the way down would be through water

(unless I can get one of those giant drills)

like this bad boy



Would be nice,

But that's what I'm after, The One Mile plus mark and the aquifer underneath the one I have gotten into, that's ... where it all is. That's where I'll find answers and i'm pretty close

The Hopis Indians believed they emerged from a world below the earth through a tunnel at the base of the San Francisco peaks near Flagstaff, Arizona.

Had to repeat this...

This intrigues me, because Flag is a dead Volcano

I do the Lava tube that's common for a picnic day with kids, took my 3 year old recently...

But in the same Mountain somewhere, covered obviously, would be a Lava Tube straight down... or series of them.

The Volcano has been dormant for 1,000,000 years although the field is potentially active, The Hopi legend in theory makes allot of sense, in those mts is a tunnel right down intersecting with the various aquifers and cavern systems all the way down




Funny thing is, I didn't know all the legends of the area, the small Lava Tube up there was the first actual cave I ever went into sans a guide (it's popular though) and there are others people don't know about...

I got my start in being a lunatic undergrounder...

in NYC

Under the Subways, in the tunnels all around NYC

some cool links, I've been to most of these places
under ny photography

nyc resource

I just started going down there when I was a teen, I would do graffitti in the subway so I guess that got me used the dark and the dangers, and then I found open doors and soon... it became something I'd just do for fun

But I never hit an actual cave of any size, until I was about to graduate college 8 years after the first time I walked an abandoned subway corridor

reply to post by Hanslune


Yeah, that's what I described for my pal on the deep journey he lost his marbles and he was a guy who hangs of cliffs for fun...

Some people simply can't handle it.

As for the heat though it really depends where you are, at my site, at maybe a half mile...nuthin and it's volcanically active 100 miles away or less.

But as i detailed sea level there is 5,000 feet under rock... so you can go a mile down and have a mile to go before those temperatures

55 degrees in these chambers that deep down... fresh air probably getting in from who knows where in the mnts...

From your location the continental mass is raised about kilometer or more over the average height of the world. So it should tend to be rather cooler.

One can find Saunder's book here

Saunder's book

I've seem that picture before. Isn't that the borer they used to make the tunnels for the abandoned idea of basing ICBMs in a system of constantly changing launching points? A shell game to keep the Soviets MIRV's guessing.

Keep us informed of your explorations, they sound interesting - oh and watch out for tunnels with flat floors that look like they were melted.....

reply to post by Hanslune




It does take place, almost all known caves that don't have guides or entrance fees are Locked down.

But, all you have to do is call your local park Ranger or Grotto and get the proper location to pick them up at.

It's mostly to avoid vandalism

They check to see that you have hard hat, 2 back up flashlights in most cases and sometimes shin guards

They just want to know who is going in, to stop Grafitti and to make sure you come out alive


There are locations that your not allowed at that are kept under thumb for more nefarious reason, like what they lead to and intersect with, but you wouldn't often encounter those unless you were specifically looking (like me :up

But she is right, most good caves known are fenced or doored... handfuls are kept as free tourist traps, particularly lava tubes

(depends what state your in too)

I know some states don't

Better sites when discovered, very often they will dynamite the entrance, if it goes, really deep for whatever reason... superstition, really something down there... Just not wanting kids to wander in...

Many a cave entrance has been blasted

That's why i'll be charting this doosey I found for a long time... IF I ever open it up to a University Geologist or to a Grotto...

I'm not comfortable having talked about it.

It will at best, be descended on by a "team" and closed off for years, at worst, dynamited or permanently closed some other way



But back on subject...

Keys for 90% of locked caves are available from local Park Rangers or others who hold them, there is no special requirement other than they know you go in and who to hold responsible for trashing them if you do.

reply to post by Hanslune




I surely will look out for them, that's the Holy grail my friend!!!!

I WISH I had a way to transmit from underground, because be in an "encounter" of any kind... my biggest worry is the isolation i'd be in at the time... no one would know, worse than being on the open seas.







[edit on 21-11-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Use a long, long wire and a hand crank generator to power either a PDA or phone hooked to a recording device.