It's About Time People Realize We're Alone. BTW, This is Not Another Typical Atheist Thread

Here's the thing. I'm not here to argue the existence of God or not. I think there very, VERY well could be. If asked if I believed, I would answer 'I don't know if I believe or not'. But this is not a 'God doesn't exist' thread. This is a 'We are alone' thread. What's the difference...?

Whether there is a God or not, we need to start acting as though we are alone. When I think of the relationship humanity seems to have with God, I'm reminded of a science experiment that someone lost interest in and just left alone. The sooner I think people start thinking and acting as though we are on our own, the sooner I believe we'll start seeing more of people helping others out to preserve life and advance society and civilizations.

Imagine it as though YOU created life like Lisa did in The Simpsons episode. She didn't meddle with it, yet before it started praying to Lisa, it grew on it's own without divine intervention. Just think back to when mankind was new to the Earth and you had to survive on your own without God, and you made small advances in technology (tools, etc.) to better improve YOUR life, AND to help better society.

This, IMO, is the type of thinking we need to get back to instead of waiting for answers or divine intervention. We create our own societies, live our own lives, and should help others to do the same.

Hmm, can you expand a little more? What are we doing as a society that makes you think our focus has been misplaced? Not criticizing, I'm interested. I mean sure I see your point about helping one another, but what what has captured our motivation and drawn us away from this simple concept (you'd think) in your opinion?

Do not pretend you are alone!!!

Know in your heart and soul that you have human rights that are not subject to mens whims and fancies!

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Watch out people this is the typical NWO propaganda to take away your inalienable rights endowed by your creator. As soon as humanists like bigbert have their way your rights become merely the opinions of men - no longer inalienable. Throughout history as soon as this happens men with power will take your rights.

The OP advocates a human rights nightmare.
Atheistic governments are USSR, China, N Korea, Vietnam, etc.

Stand up for your rights against tyranny!

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Really?

Are we really going to do this now?

I would LOVE to counter your post, but I am awaiting and ever-elusive official debate, so please Whammy, do not try to debate it here. Let this thread go as I started it.

PEOPLE, don't listen to BigWhammy here, he knows not what he says. We will be debating this issue in the debate forum. For now though, I would very much like to stick to the topic at hand and hear YOUR views on the subject.

If you would like to see this debate, IF it ever happens, it will be on the topic of 'Moral Relativism vs. Moral Absolutism'. I'll bet you all can guess which side I'll be on.

Thanks.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by bigbert81]

Yes.. I agree.. Let's leave God out of this.

We as man have accomplished so much with our Mind. It is us that decided to tame the wild, to build shelter for protection, Harnessed nature to produce Fire,
Developed space flight and probes to explore the solar system.

All because we have a Great Mind.

reply to post by bigbert81


first

you cited a Simpson's episode . . .

second

not everyone sees things your way. The only way the system you speak of could work is if everyone was FORCED to coincide with it. I say this because people inherently do not do what's best for themselves, this planet, or it's inhabitants.

third

how about moral ambiguity as the topic for a debate discussion bert?

[edit on 5/31/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by bigbert81

 

first

you cited a Simpson's episode . . .

second

not everyone sees things your way. The only way the system you speak of could work is if everyone was FORCED to coincide with it. I say this because people inherently do not do what's best for themselves, this planet, or it's inhabitants.

third

how about moral ambiguity as the topic for a debate discussion bert?

[edit on 5/31/2008 by JPhish]

First, the Simpsons episode was for reference. A damn good one I thought too.

Second, nobody would have to be forced into anything. I'm making a suggestion on what I think people should do. People may do as they please, but I feel that if people start to act as though we ARE alone, they will be more inclined to help others as I described.

Third, I like the whole 'vs.' thing in it. That's how the other debates seem to do it, so it must work pretty good. Thanks for the suggestion though.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81


Typical elitist. Bert thinks he can post whatever he wants... and I am not allowed to oppose his opinions.

I can post wherever I want bigbadbert so stop being a bully.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by bigbert81

 

Typical elitist. Bert thinks he can post whatever he wants... and I am not allowed to oppose his opinions.

I can post wherever I want bigbadbert so stop being a bully.

I merely asked you as a favor, but I can see you're just aching to burst through my little, evil tricks and expose me for the horrible person I am.

Thanks for being adult about it.

reply to post by bigbert81



Oh and you act adult? You whine about a dissenting opinion. Please...

PEOPLE, don't listen to BigWhammy here, he knows not what he says.

As you long as you continue to post this Anti American communist propaganda, I'm on you like white on rice. I don't know your age but I grew up during the cold war and I know where this philosophy leads, it's not a game. It KILLS

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Really? Trying to save my thread from getting hijacked by you and saying 'he knows not what he says' is really a big issue with you?

Well, let's see here, Mr. Grown Up, shall we?

Typical elitist

Well, I can see we're back to name calling.

I can post wherever I want bigbadbert so stop being a bully.

Fallout for asking a favor.

Watch out people this is the typical NWO propaganda to take away your inalienable rights endowed by your creator.

Accusing me of NWO propaganda? Really?

The OP advocates a human rights nightmare.

Wow, much nicer than what I said.

As you long as you continue to post this Anti American communist propaganda,

Propaganda again, huh? For stating my opinion? Do you know what that word even means?

I'm on you like white on rice.

Wow. So is this what it's like to be an 'absolutist'? Even though we have not debated yet, you come in here hijacking this thread and forcing your morals on me like you are the thread police?

Huh, I could've sworn that would be your argument against relativism.

Quit being childish. If you want to have this debate, wait until we can debate it formally. There is no need to hijack all of my threads until we do, as I would like to have a discussion with OTHER ATS members. You are not their 'champion' or 'knight in shining armor', so quit trying to be.

I grew up during the cold war

Then start acting like it.

Force on you? How by disagreeing... no force bert.

Just turn off your computer and it's all gone.

Sorry posting in disagreement does not equal hi jacking.

[Marxism-Thaxis] Lenin on atheism

These masses should be supplied with the most
varied atheist propaganda material, they should be made familiar with facts
from the most diverse spheres of life, they should be approached in every
possible way, so as to interest them, rouse them from their religious
torpor, stir them from the most varied angles and by the most varied
methods, and so forth.

The keen, vivacious and talented writings of the old eighteenth-century
atheists wittily and openly attacked the prevailing clericalism and will
very often prove a thousand times more suitable for arousing people from
their religious torpor than the dull and dry paraphrases of Marxism, almost
completely unillustrated by skillfully selected facts, which predominate in
our literature and which (it is no use hiding the fact) frequently distort
Marxism. We have translations of all the major works of Marx and Engels.
There are absolutely no grounds for fearing that the old atheism and old
materialism will remain un-supplemented by the corrections introduced by
Marx and Engels. The most important thing - and it is this that is most
frequently overlooked by those of our Communists who are supposedly
Marxists, but who in fact mutilate Marxism - is to know how to awaken in
the still undeveloped masses an intelligent attitude towards religious
questions and an intelligent criticism of religions.

Lenin




[edit on 5/31/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Whammy, you are the most immature ATS member I have ever come across. I've already asked you to take a step back so that I could debate this matter with OTHER ATS members since we will be debating it ourselves, but instead your damned pride gets in the way and you can't. Why don't you try to grow a pair.

Oh, and look:

Benjamin Franklin noted, “religion will be a powerful regulator of our actions, give us peace and tranquility within our minds, and render us benevolent, useful and beneficial to others.”

See, I can post quotes too!

reply to post by bigbert81

Modern Communism is part of a Satanic conspiracy, which aims to bring to fruition a Totalitarian Police State, i.e., the Beast system of the Antichrist, aka, the New World Order. This plot was organized back in 1773...

Evidence will be produced to prove that Modern Communism was organized in the year 1773 by a group of International Money-Barons who have used it since, as their manual of action, to further their secret plans to bring about a Totalitarian Godless State. Lenin made this clear in his book Left Wing Communism. On page 53, he said: "Our theory (Communism) is not a dogma (Settled Doctrine); it is a manual of action. Many modern leaders have said and done the same things as Lucifer did during the heavenly revolution. There is no appreciable difference between Red and Black Atheism. The only difference is in the plans used by the opposing leaders to ultimately win undisputed control of the world's resources, and bring into being their ideas for a Totalitarian, Godless Dictatorship.

SOURCE: PAWNS IN THE GAME; chapter one, page 4; by William Guy Carr; 1958.

Bert I am in no way prohibiting you from discussing anything with anyone. So stop with the silliness. If you do not like the opposition - too bad I don't like your ideas.. You are not mandated to respond to me. Put me on ignore for all I care. We'll duke it out in the debate. It's not personal - I hate your philosophy - not you.

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by bigbert81

 

not everyone sees things your way. The only way the system you speak of could work is if everyone was FORCED to coincide with it. I say this because people inherently do not do what's best for themselves, this planet, or it's inhabitants.

Exactly what he advocates unknowingly is tyranny by the elite. BTW JPhish I really like your posts I have been seeing -starred!

how about moral ambiguity as the topic for a debate discussion bert?

Thats closer to the truth Huh?

Actually I requested a third party pick the title but bert insisted he had to pick. No biggie - but he has a profound misunderstanding of what those two terms men.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Ahhh, I see...

So, from what I'm getting, is that you are against my ideals, not because you don't think they would work, but because you believe it to be the work of the devil...

Well, that makes sense...

reply to post by bigbert81


Exactly bert.

But to clarify, they work just great if piles of millions of dead people is your goal. But for the betterment of humanity? What a joke.

[edit on 5/31/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Yes you are when you decide to hijack and dominate the thread. You are absolutely ridiculous and incredibly immature. I've asked you to step back so that we can have a clean debate amongst ourselves, and you refuse to for some reason.

You are not mandated to respond to me. Put me on ignore for all I care.

I have a responsibility to respond to posts on my threads, and I will not put people on my ignore list. That hardly follows with denying ignorance.

We'll duke it out in the debate.

Well then WTF are you still here for after I've asked you nicely to step back? So is this an admission that you are actually just trolling? Because it sure sounds like it.

Actually I requested a third party pick the title but bert insisted he had to pick. No biggie - but he has a profound misunderstanding of what those two terms men.

Really? Is this how it's going to be? You're going to straight up LIE now to try and get support? This must be some kind of joke. Am I being punk'd right now?

You tried to pull a fast one on me with the original theme. It was an incredibly distasteful, dishonest way to try and win, and now you're pulling THIS crap? What a friggin' joke!

Moral relativism vs. moral absolutism is a common debate. It's like nature vs. nurture. If you are starting to worry about it, we shouldn't debate, because after that fast one you tried to pull on me, you're right, I will not let you pick the title.

Is a thrid party source deciding "a fast one"?

The "fast one" was all in you head bert.

No worries, I dont want to give you an excuse...

the titles absolutely cool with me.

"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family tradition, national patriotism, and religious dogmas." -George Brock Chisholm

SOURCE: Speech, Conference on Education, Asilomar, California, September 11, 1954





[edit on 5/31/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I don't know why you make a post that will finally end this stupid thing, and then go back and edit it 800 times like all of your other posts. I'll respond, and then there'll be different writing there.

And BTW, QUIT LYING!!!

You know damn well it wasn't the 3rd party. Quit playing dumb (if you are in fact 'playing') and trying to mislead people.

Is this how a Christian typically acts? They lie and mislead to get people to join up with them. Oh, whoops, I already know that answer.