Why You Support Obama

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Kamikaze X

 

Actually, Hillary is counting the caucuses. Yeah, the caucuses were very lopsided, and that is the problem with the caucuses, they are controlled by the local party machine, and are not very democratic. That has been the complaint about caucuses from the beginning. Obama is the choice of the far left DNC political establishment. The reality is that nobody casts a vote in the caucuses, so all you get is an estimate. Subtract the caucus estimates and Hillary is an even bigger winner in the popular vote.

Either way, it seems to me that you agree that the party should choose the candidate that the people choose, which is the candidate who won the popular vote. With all the rules, allowing the states to control the election process, this becomes problematic. The biggest problem is that it simply isn't fair to allow the same states to get the first votes year after year after year. Considering how poor the quality of the candidates have been, this should be changed.

What we have in this primary is a situation where the DNC has manipulated their candidate of choice into position to become the nominee by twisting the rules in his favor, which is exactly what they did by eliminating Michigan and Florida from the equation. Why in the world shouldn't a working class state like Michigan be included early on? Why shouldn't a state as diverse as Florida be allowed to be counted on early on? Both of these states are Hillary's demographic, and the party knew that from the beginning. This has been a rigged election from the beginning, sorry if you are an Obama supporter, and you don't want to see this, but the evidence is quite clear.

The reality is that the super delegates do not cast their votes until the convention in August, and can change their minds until then. Let Obama take the role as the presumptive nominee, and if he stumbles, then Hillary, who won the popular vote can step in. Obama's numbers are on the way down, one good month shouldn't automatically mean he automatically should get the party nod, no matter how hard big media and the DNC machine is trying to give it to him.

You have demonstrated once again that you don't understand the process. The primary elections are run by state and local governments, while caucuses are private events run by the political parties. A state primary election usually determines how many delegates to each party's national convention each candidate for president will receive from that state. Whoever reaches the delegate total wins, case closed. That's how it's been before Hillary entered and that's how it will be after. What you are proposing is the equivalent of losing a basketball game by 100 points but then trying to make the argument that you had more rebounds so you should be considered the true winner. It doesn't work like that.

[edit on 6/3/08 by Kamikaze X]

reply to post by Kamikaze X


No, you don't understand the system. The states only hold the primaries in the manner they choose, from which a certain percentage of the delegates are kind of obligated to vote as the rules determine, and another percentage of the delegates, who are called super delegates, get to choose on their own how to vote.

If this were a basketball game, it would be at the end of the game with a tie, and the refs are deciding to choose the winner, rather than going into overtime. Both sides are claiming victory, but they can't even determine which points are counted.

The reality is that this is more like a figure skating contest, where the judges get to choose who wins based on a complicated set of rules. The thing is, if the judging process is viewed as flawed, the tournament looses credibility, and people stop buying tickets.

By refusing to count all the votes, and constanlty pressuring Hillary to quit before the game is even over, this contest is loosing all credibility. Once that happens, then the party is over. Get it?

Originally posted by poet1b
If this were a basketball game, it would be at the end of the game with a tie, and the refs are deciding to choose the winner, rather than going into overtime. Both sides are claiming victory, but they can't even determine which points are counted.

No, this is more like a football game. The score is 26-21 Obama and there's 2 seconds left in the game, and the refs are deciding how many points to give the two touchdowns Hillary scored in the first quarter.

"Hmmmm..... 26-21..... ok.... we' give her 4 points for those two touchdowns... that's fair."

Back on topic, anybody come up with policy reasons why they voted for Obama?

I think that it is prudent to remind everyone who is talking about democracy and democratic principle that we don't live in a Democracy....we live in a Republic.

www.1215.org...
Republic. That form of government in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whome those powers are specially delegated. [NOTE: The word "people" may be either plural or singular. In a republic the group only has advisory powers; the sovereign individual is free to reject the majority group-think. USA/exception: if 100% of a jury convicts, then the individual loses sovereignty and is subject to group-think as in a democracy.]

Democracy. That form of government in which the sovereign power resides in and is exercised by the whole body of free citizens directly or indirectly through a system of representation, as distinguished from a monarchy, aristocracy, or oligarchy. [NOTE: In a pure democracy, 51% beats 49%. In other words, the minority has no rights. The minority only has those privileges granted by the dictatorship of the majority.]

Why You Support Obama

Now this sounds like fun except for all the rules. Why can't we just say why we support him? Here are my reasons.

1. He is not George Bush.
2. He is not Dick Cheney.
3. He is not John McCain.
4. He is not a Republican.

Now how bout I also list the reasons why I would support Hillary if she won the nomination.

1. She is not George Bush.
2. She is not Dick Cheney.
3. She is not John McCain.
4. She is not a Republican.

I could do more, but I think you get the idea.

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by DocMoreau
This is a conspiracy website, why are you posting thread after thread of anti Obama propaganda and opinion/editorials?

By the way, why do you think asking Obama supporters to tell me which Obama policies won them over is anti-Obama?

I'm just doing what the Obama supporters insisted I do. Stick to discussing policies vs. personality.

You still have not answered whether or not you are working for McCain's campaign. Since you have refused to do so, I think we must take into consideration that you are due to the nature of your posts.

I think you asking Obama Supporters to 'tell' you which policies is not 'anti-Obama', it is the tone you have taken in a majority of your threads, spreading half truths and anti-Obama Propaganda. I think you asking his 'supporters' for any information is a part of your job, as is perpetuating ignorance.

Your Anti Obama threads with Obama in the title, not including the threads where you bash him, and other DNC members (Pelosi, Boxer, etc.):
Obama and the NWO
Obama and Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Obama+Clintons+2008 = 666?
Illegal Obama Fundraising Scandal
Obama's Modern Time -This is funny
In 52 Secs Why Barack Obama Cannot Win A General Election
Why You Support Obama, this thread...
Obama-Fraud Banks on Supporters Stupidity
Michelle Obama Really Proud??
DNC Rules Committee Selects Obama as Nominee
At First Most People Liked Obama...
Obama Wants Your Kids Too
Obama/Clinton 2008 Conspiracy
Obama About to Swing FAR to the Right

I might have missed a few, there were so many.

Thanks for playing...
DocMoreau

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by poet1b
If this were a basketball game, it would be at the end of the game with a tie, and the refs are deciding to choose the winner, rather than going into overtime. Both sides are claiming victory, but they can't even determine which points are counted.

No, this is more like a football game. The score is 26-21 Obama and there's 2 seconds left in the game, and the refs are deciding how many points to give the two touchdowns Hillary scored in the first quarter.

"Hmmmm..... 26-21..... ok.... we' give her 4 points for those two touchdowns... that's fair."

Back on topic, anybody come up with policy reasons why they voted for Obama?

Actually, its like a Season of Football, and Hillary has been trying to get yardage gained in games she herself agreed were preseason exhibitions, counted towards her total yardage for the season. If she were to crack 2000 yards rushing she was in for a big performance per her contract. She also would get incentives if she were the rushing champion. Unfortunately, someone else rushed for more yards, Barack Obama and is this years champion.... She might not even get invited to the Pro Bowl, and oh how the season has aged her, she might retire if she doesn't get into the playoffs. You would think that she were actually a wide receiver, the way she acts in the public eye...

I have a new reason for any member of ATS to vote for Obama, and that is because of the infiltration of ATS by McCainiacs and his band of Paid Trolls.

Before it was because I don't want a someone who is a shill and and idiot as my President. Now I want Obama just because he strikes such a nerve with you, and people like you, that he is exactly what the United States needs to cure its Jingoism.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by Hal9000
Why You Support Obama

Now this sounds like fun except for all the rules. Why can't we just say why we support him?

There aren't so many rules. There was only one "rule." State what policy of Obama's made you support him over Clinton.

That's not really that complicated, is it?

The reason I even created this thread was in response to the repeated demands by Obama supporters to stop questioning peripheral issues like Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama, the "bitter" comment, etc., and stick to discussing issues and policies. Well, here was the chance for Obama supporters to voice their opinions on his policy.

For the most part, Obama supporters have not been able to come up with many issues or policy differences that distinguish Obama from Hillary.

Originally posted by DocMoreau
You still have not answered whether or not you are working for McCain's campaign. Since you have refused to do so, I think we must take into consideration that you are due to the nature of your posts.

I think you asking Obama Supporters to 'tell' you which policies is not 'anti-Obama', it is the tone you have taken in a majority of your threads, spreading half truths and anti-Obama Propaganda. I think you asking his 'supporters' for any information is a part of your job, as is perpetuating ignorance.

You really are having a lot of trouble coming up with policies of Obama's that made you support him, aren't you?

And you consider a thread asking people why they support Obama, based on policy issues, bashing Obama?

You might want to try raising your level of discourse and debate from changing the subject, avoiding the issues, and attacking me personally to one in which you intelligently discuss the relevant issues.

Originally posted by jamie83
There aren't so many rules. There was only one "rule." State what policy of Obama's made you support him over Clinton.

Maybe I don't feel like following your rule.

That's not really that complicated, is it?

It might be for a republican. We know how they can be.

The reason I even created this thread was in response to the repeated demands by Obama supporters to stop questioning peripheral issues like Rev. Wright, Michelle Obama, the "bitter" comment, etc., and stick to discussing issues and policies. Well, here was the chance for Obama supporters to voice their opinions on his policy.

Here's a clue. They really wanted you to stop bashing Obama.

For the most part, Obama supporters have not been able to come up with many issues or policy differences that distinguish Obama from Hillary.

Who cares? If they like him that is their right, and we are tired of trolls like you coming here cluttering up our board. You are welcome to post one or two threads on the same subject, but I am surprised you have not been warned by a mod for creating so many.

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by DocMoreau
You still have not answered whether or not you are working for McCain's campaign. Since you have refused to do so, I think we must take into consideration that you are due to the nature of your posts.

I think you asking Obama Supporters to 'tell' you which policies is not 'anti-Obama', it is the tone you have taken in a majority of your threads, spreading half truths and anti-Obama Propaganda. I think you asking his 'supporters' for any information is a part of your job, as is perpetuating ignorance.

You really are having a lot of trouble coming up with policies of Obama's that made you support him, aren't you?

And you consider a thread asking people why they support Obama, based on policy issues, bashing Obama?

You might want to try raising your level of discourse and debate from changing the subject, avoiding the issues, and attacking me personally to one in which you intelligently discuss the relevant issues.

Still haven't answered a direct question, posted several times. Paid McCain supporter or not? What causes your Anti-Obama sentiment? Why come to a conspiracy website to post your thoughts?

No comment on your numerous anti-Obama threads, even though I provided you the links. I chose to 'engage' you in this thread because it was the least 'Anti' of all the Obama threads that you had created up until the point I posted.

I also see that you understand what a Strawman is, but are now trying to accuse me of committing one. Nice twist! Especially after I already explained to you about your strawman techniques...

I answered your question as to what policies Obama presents that I find his position more in step with mine. I also answered as to why I want him leading the country, due to his ability to actually speak to a large group without multiple gaffs.

Such as this one...


I sure hope you are getting paid, otherwise the amount of vitriol in your Obama attacks would be unhealthy.
DocMoreau

Just because the pro-Obama shills are losing against the anti-Obama posters, doesn't mean you are out numbered, just out gunned. Maybe you will wake up one day and realize you have been had by a media all too eager to support Obama with open bias.

Start of mod stuff
Courtesy Is Mandatory

I suggest that everyone involved in this - and future political discussions running up to the election reads that post, and understands it.

I also suggest people read and understand this concept

The End of Political Baiting and Sniping on ATS (was ALL MEMBERS READ)

Terms like "shill" are ad-hominem and unnecessary. I realise that theres not been an election for four years, and folks may be a little rusty on some of this stuff but we're here to debate the politics and the policies and not to have playground style name-calling drama.
End of mod stuff

Start of member stuff

OP - heres a question - given that two people from the same political spectrum have similar ideas they are likely to have the same policies - but really why does it matter? What are you trying to prove in your "subtle" manner?







[edit on 5/0608/08 by neformore]

reply to post by jamie83


My support for him is based on his stance on Iran.

Currently the bar is set too low for a strike against them. Were are using the threat of a military airstrike against them as our negotiating tool. They're not buying it so far. The reality of an airstrike is that there is little support for it the the world community not to mention parts of our own Pentagon. The feasability of an airstrike w/o tactical nukes is questionable and using tactical nukes would have dire strategic/political consequences.

Threaten to strike them and we don't makes us look like the bullying empire many think we are or, strike them (even when it's a poor strategic choice) and risk losing a war we may not be strong enough to win.

Either way it's a lose/lose strategy and an uphill battle to preserve America as the leading world power.

I'm not saying Barack Obama has all the answers but, history shows us that it is not a good idea to rush into opening Pandora's box.

Candidate who is capable of taking his own religious belief and stupid formalities such as flag pin aside is the person this melting pot we call US needs. Someone who is not believing that god wants him to be a president. Someone who does not think that a little pin (which was probably made in China, lol) would make him more patriotic than he already is.

If he is capable of doing these things he is reaching people of other belief systems, even those who do not believe, such as myself. Which leads me to conclusion that he has much greater potential as a leader of ALL of us.

Experience McCain has means NOTHING in comparison to that. More "experience" in his particular case could easily mean more corruption...

I voted for Hillary, I liked her policies a lot, and since Obama's are very similar, voting for him is really not a brainer

I support Obama because I agree with most of his leftist views. Frankly I couldn't of cared less if it was Hillary who got nominated, not that it really matters now that the nomination is sealed.

a reply to: poet1b

" I would like to see this board continue. You have thrown down the gauntlet, lets see if the many Obama supporters on the site are willing to prove Obama's superiority on the issues."



Censorship Will Kill ATS . The Truth about Obama will be Hidden for Years and Years and Years ........