To those who don't believe in global warming

Can you explain "why" CO2 doesn't trap heat from the sun? Actually explain this rather than coming up with other excuses for global warming?

This is what wikipedia says: Carbon dioxide is an important greenhouse gas because it transmits visible light but absorbs strongly in the infrared.

Without greenhouse gases the earth would be too cold to live on. So clearly greenhouse gases warm the earth, therefore too many greenhouse gases would warm the earth too much.

So much is happening currently and it's silly to ignore it. We are only a few years away from the tipping point after which runaway global warming might occur.

And greenhouse gases could do this very quickly (we're talking about runaway global warming, think venus, something which Stephen Hawking thinks will happen!):

Could Methane Trigger a Climate Doomsday Within a Human Lifespan?
blog.wired.com...

We are already seeing champion melting in the Arctic: www.youtube.com...

and some scientists think it'll melt this year.

The Arctic ice reflects 80% of the sunlight that shines on to it. That's a lot of heat that will be taken into the ocean when it's gone. That is a scary prospect.
Poor Siberia: www.youtube.com...

Now the aim of this thread is for people to explain why CO2 does NOT cause warming, nothing else please.


[edit on 30-5-2008 by monkey_descendant]

U.S. Senate Report: Over 400 Prominent Scientists Disputed Man-Made Global Warming Claims in 2007

Over 400 prominent scientists from more than two dozen countries recently voiced significant objections to major aspects of the so-called "consensus" on man-made global warming. These scientists, many of whom are current and former participants in the UN IPCC (Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), criticized the climate claims made by the UN IPCC and former Vice President Al Gore.

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Many of the scientists featured in this report consistently stated that numerous colleagues shared their views, but they will not speak out publicly for fear of retribution. Atmospheric scientist Dr. Nathan Paldor, Professor of Dynamical Meteorology and Physical Oceanography at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, author of almost 70 peer-reviewed studies, explains how many of his fellow scientists have been intimidated.

I think you are missing the larger picture. Maybe you should ask your question to some of the 400+ scientists who disagree with the GW theorists.

I agree with President Klaus that GW is sjust another tac the governments of the world are using to destroy our liberty.

It's disgusting to watch all of you "conspiracy theorists" and anti-authority types swallow the biggest load of # any govenment has ever handed down. But, your chastising those of us that actually still have a brain to dispute these lies has become perfectly standard behavior and completely expected from you lunatics.

Kneel at the alter of Algore and cut your own throats, but leave the rest of us alone!

But the question was why does CO2 not cause global warming. CO2 traps heat from the sun, so how does it not cause global warming?

Originally posted by monkey_descendant
But the question was why does CO2 not cause global warming. CO2 traps heat from the sun, so how does it not cause global warming?

I think the main argument is whether current climate change can be put down to a natural cycle, man made effects or even a combination of the both.

No body is disputing the fact CO2 could increase temperatures, though there is the argument that the current levels of CO2 affects the temperature very little and the correlations drawn between CO2 rises and temperature increases are in fact the other way around and that when the temperature increases then CO2 rises after it.

I'm not convinced either way whether humanity is the sole cause of current climate change as I've seen both sides of the argument and found explanations lacking, though I do support alternative energy sources and recycling on the principle we are a rather wasteful at the moment.

edit: spelling



[edit on 30-5-2008 by UK Wizard]

reply to post by Gatordone


But the government (at least the US one) for the longest time denied global warming. So how can you say it's a government thing? Yes there are carbon taxes now and they are stealth taxes but that's just a government doing what it usually does, trying to get tax from anything and everything. The term daylight robbery comes from the fact that windows used to be taxed!

If climate change isn't man made how do you explain this?: www.youtube.com...

reply to post by monkey_descendant


CO2 does not and can not "cause global warming"

FACT 99.99% of the atmosphere "IS NOT" man-made CO2.

GW is a power grab by the "elite?" to control the stupid masses........

Originally posted by monkey_descendant
But the question was why does CO2 not cause global warming. CO2 traps heat from the sun, so how does it not cause global warming?

You know those things called trees?

You know what they breath? Thats right CO2, they help regulate the amount of CO2 in the environment.

Global warming has not yet been confirmed as climatological data does not go back far enough to determine whether or not, the earth goes through a long period of cooling and heating. Just to add, the last year recorded much cooler temperatures than normal

reply to post by OzWeatherman


But we are losing trees. There are less trees in the world than there used to be, and more Co2.

Check out this link, it'll provide you with some answers to the question you asked.


Global Warming Not Caused by Carbon Dioxide

To the OP:

Consider the fact that a properly functioning climate does not require ice caps, trees, or even land plants at all. The Cambrian period had few to no land plants, no ice caps, and 7000 PPM of atmospheric CO2.

Today, we have ice caps, expansive forests and enough plants to cover any suitable land. Yet some (otherwise intelligent) people would like to have you believe that our climate will be driven "off the edge" with our current 360 PPM of atmospheric CO2.

Now tell me this: given that info, will you just swallow their claims without question?

... (the answer should be "no")

reply to post by monkey_descendant


There is more foliage on this earth than at any time in recorded history. In the US alone we have more plantlife than before the Euopeans arrived here. We do have that information from sources like Lewis and Cark and several other written texts on this very subject as explorers made copious notes in diaries and reports in the 1700's.
Zindo

Originally posted by monkey_descendant
But the question was why does CO2 not cause global warming. CO2 traps heat from the sun, so how does it not cause global warming?

you know very well that isolating a single factor means nothing, imagine doing the same in a medical setting, measuring peripheral body temperature without knowing ambient or body weight without data for height. it is meaningless.


of course you're probably going to mention feedback now. feedback is used in technical applications, usually to stabilize a system. that's of course *negative* feedback, because *positive* feedback will simply run off into saturation and is therefore of limited use.


if you want to single out CO2, i will kindly ask whether you feel clouds blocking the sun or not. why not single out clouds then?

reply to post by monkey_descendant


I think to ignore that the earth is warming is ignorant at this stage, it is obviously warming. Why it is warming is where IMO the confusion and doubts form. Again, IMO, it is a natural occurance. It has happened before and will happen again. It didn't take a meteor strike to kill the dino's, they froze to death, and died in mud/landslides, it happened suddenly, like it would during a major pole shift. Turning areas formerly tropic and desert into frozen land, and vice versa. The process would create earthquake activity, floods, volcanoes , storms, basically world wide catastrophe. Everything that we are seeing , and I am talking about natural disasters, is probably a lot like what has been seen in the past. As far as how many scientists disagree with global warming, with all due respect, they don't know the answer. If they did there would not be so many who disagree within their own fellow scientists that there is global warming taking place.

reply to post by monkey_descendant


The CO2 content on earth is 0.04%. The CO2 content on Mars is 95%. Why is it so cold on Mars? GWNO

reply to post by monkey_descendant


You wanted an explanation for why CO2 does NOT cause global warming? Then here it is. CO2 does not trap heat. It absorbs heat quickly but re-emits that heat energy slowly. Thing about why it's cooler at night than in the daytime. In the daytime, CO2 (and other greenhouse gases like water vapor) absorb energy faster than can be re-emitted. At night, CO2 is able to give up most or all of the energy it absorbed during the day. No one is disputing that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. The problem with the theory of manmade global warming (as opposed to natural global warming) is that CO2 has a logarythmic property. If you have twice as much CO2, you DON'T get twice as much warming affect. Scientists have calculated that half of all the warming that is attributable to CO2 is accounted for by the first 20 parts per million and the other half is accounted for by the remaining 360 parts per million that we have now. In order for the impact on average temperatures due to CO2 to double, the level of CO2 would have to increase from 360 ppm to 90,000 ppm. (I'm just quoting calculations done by scientists)

Global warming is NOT caused by rising CO2. Rather, rising CO2 is caused by global warming. All you have to do is find the report, written by the scientist (available on the Web) who analyzed the ice core samples from Antarctica and Greenland, and generated the data that was used in the film An Inconvenient Truth. The report says very clearly and confidently that when temperatures and CO2 levels changed direction from either up to down or from down to up, temperatures ALWAYS changed direction first and CO2 levels ALWAYS changed direction in the same way later and the lag time between temperature trend changes and CO2 trend changes was 1100 YEARS plus or minus 700 years. This means that there were periods of time of at least 400 years(and sometimes as much as 1800 years) when CO2 was still increasing but average temperatures were already dropping and vice versa.

Since the laws of physics and chemisty haven't changed over the last 600,000 years that the ice cores cover, what was true then MUST be true now. Yes both temperatures and CO2 levels seem to be rising but it's temperature that is causing CO2 levels to increase and the mechanism by which this is happening is the oceans. Warm ocean water gives off CO2 and cold ocean water absorbs CO2. If the Earth is getting more sunlight(which seems to be the case) then AVERAGE ocean temperatures are rising and therefore it's quite reasonable for CO2 levels to be rising too. The amounts of CO2 that the oceans are capable of giving off or absorbing completely dwarfs the levels of manmade CO2. We are insignificant to planetary temperatures. Therefore we are not the cause of global warming and nothing we can do will prevent it. It's a naturally occuring climate cycle.

The debate rages on..AGW or climate change...
Does it make any real difference? I say NOT!
Carbon credits/ taxes are the means by which TPB intend to pay for reconstruction of all the PORTS in this world, once the sea level rises.
I am a mile from the beach, in a few years I'll own "beach front property".
How much will my property appreciate in value...?

The debate is tiring...look at the genuine reason for this debate. There is nothing to be accomplished by fighting climate change- we must fight CITY HALL...

Ok. If the Co2 in the atmosphere is there because of warming rather than causing warming, and if it's the oceans releasing the Co2 because of this warming, then why are the oceans acidifying in part because of an increase of Co2 in them? Oceans absorb Co2 from the atmosphere.

Can someone please explain what "recent" year was the "perfect" weather that somehow GW is changing? What year was it?