McCain is Such a Friggin' No Good Punk!!! I Can't Believe This!

McCain is such a friggin' joke.

How in their right minds can anyone vote for someone that does this:

www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...

A couple of weeks ago, John McCain talked about the importance of increasing the size of the U.S. military. To entice more volunteers, he said, the government should focus on incentives: “[O]ne of the things we ought to do is provide [the troops with] significant educational benefits in return for serving.”

A few days later, McCain announced that he opposes a bipartisan measure to renew and expand the GI Bill for a new generation of veterans. Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.), the leading proponent of the modernized GI Bill, called McCain out.

McCain’s argument is that if the government makes college more affordable for the troops, they might be inclined to leave the military, rather than re-enlist. Webb, who said McCain is “full of it,” has argued that a) the troops deserve better educational benefits; and b) it might help with military recruiting if people knew they could go to college after their service.

Who’s right? Faiz at TP reports on the latest Congressional Budget Office analysis, which sets the record straight.

While the report explains that troop retention will decline because some troops will take advantage of their new education benefits, the loss in retention will be entirely made up for by increased military recruits:

“Literature on the effects of educational benefits on retention suggest that every $10,000 increase in educational benefits yields a reduction in retention of slightly more than 1 percentage point. CBO estimates that S. 22 (as modified) would more than double the present value of educational benefits for servicemembers at the first reenlistment point — from about $40,000 to over $90,000 — implying a 16 percent decline in the reenlistment rate, from about 42 percent to about 36 percent. […]

“Educational benefits have been shown to raise the number of military recruits. Based on an analysis of the existing literature, CBO estimates that a 10 percent increase in educational benefits would result in an increase of about 1 percent in high-quality recruits. On that basis, CBO calculates that raising the educational benefits as proposed in S. 22 would result in a 16 percent increase in recruits.”

Yep, McCain really is full of it.

He used a half truth to back up his reasonings for not allowing the soldiers to get a better education.

Maybe he just wanted to stay with his 100% Bush similar voting record for '08.

[edit on 5/30/2008 by bigbert81

[edit: added source link]

[edit on 30-5-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

I find it shocking that threads calling Obama a Muslim terrorist and downing him for not wearing flag pins seem to do so well, while McCain can pull crap like this and no one seems to care.

McCain is a tool. He has completely dropped anything that's made him unique and has decided to mimic Bush to a T. For some reason, he thinks this is the best way to win, even though Bush will go down in history as the worst president ever.

McCain really is too old and his mind has apparently stopped working.

So, lemme get this straight.

The report is saying that even tho the military loses guys due to them going to college, we'll gain more recruits who enlist for the benefits?

That's still a loss for the military.

You lose three NCOs, gain five Privates/Airman/Sailors. You've just lost 4+ years of experience and gain five guys that have to be trained to be back up to the levels of the guys you just lost. And then you lose them again in 4 or so years because they get out for college.

I'd rather see a program that ties the benefits with years of service. The longer you stay in, the more you get.

Alright, it's nice to see that folks are posting about things they know nothing about on ATS again.

This bill is stupid. Why would we want to encourage folks to get out early, rather that rewarding them for years of service.

Does someone who served the minimum deserve the same as someone who served for 30 years?

reply to post by COOL HAND

Alright, it's nice to see that folks are posting about things they know nothing about on ATS again.

And it's nice to see overly egotistical people coming on here to insult others with insults they THINK are original and clever, yet end up making themselves look like they're just trying to be cool.

Experience is definitely a good thing, but to deny these soldiers a better education because retention rates would drop by 16%, even though they would be mostly offset (by 16%) is wrong.

I LOVE how people come on here to insult others about their educations, and then agree that giving people better educations is wrong. Don't you?

reply to post by COOL HAND


Someone who served the minimum would be offered college education benefits. Someone who served 30 years would be offered retirement pay and medical for the rest of their lives, plus college benefits.

If they start offering guys a retirement check after 4 years, then I think you would have an argument.

Originally posted by Karlhungis
Someone who served 30 years would be offered retirement pay and medical for the rest of their lives, plus college benefits.

Man, don't even get into the subject of "medical benefits"! What a joke they are. Tricare's solution for any problem is Motrin!

Originally posted by bigbert81
And it's nice to see overly egotistical people coming on here to insult others with insults they THINK are original and clever, yet end up making themselves look like they're just trying to be cool.

Kinda like you calling McCain a "tool"?

Originally posted by bigbert81Experience is definitely a good thing, but to deny these soldiers a better education because retention rates would drop by 16%, even though they would be mostly offset (by 16%) is wrong.

You don't want to lose your most experienced guys. That's why when troops try to apply for special duties, a lot of supervisors give them static, because they don't want to lose them.

They aren't "denying" them an education. McCain doesn't want to see guys just enlisting for three years and leaving with all the college benefits a guy that stayed in longer would get.

reply to post by COOL HAND


This bill is not stupid, your analysis of it is. Sucks to lose experienced guys, period. But lets not forget experience counts for nothing if the guy doesn't want to be there.

Now, I tend not to put too much stock in the numbers the article cites, as it's not quite as cut and dry as "decrease in retention of 6%, increase in recruitment of 16%". Now, if it is, then this bill is that much better of an idea, as the military grows by 10%. However, college isn't on anyone's mind these days when it comes to considering military service. War is. People leaving the military take advantage of the GI bill, but they don't leave because of it. If you joined the Army, so you could go to college afterward, and the Army came along and took away that incentive after the fact, would you then decide to stay? Seeing as you wanted to go to college, chances are the military wasn't what you wanted to make a career of, so most would be inclined to leave anyway.

Here's a thought for McCain: Get out of Iraq, and you needn't worry about a 6% decline in retention.

What happened to fighting for your country out of love of country. The military attracks those that have had to do without for most of their lives...and they sign up hoping to gain some ground away from the poverty with incentives of higher education and health benefits..things we should all have given the U.S is the richest nation on the planet.

I am ashamed of my country..keep people down in order to get them to serve, then while they serve deny them the protections to hold them safe. Some are willing to pay for an education with their life. So sad.

McCain can kiss my a##.

Originally posted by bigbert81
I find it shocking that threads calling Obama a Muslim terrorist and downing him for not wearing flag pins seem to do so well,

Berti .. it's a whole lot more than just Obama not wearing a pin.
His lies. His corruption. His lack of experience. His lies. His sexism.
His racism. Oh .. did I mention his lies.

McCain is a tool.

He's a hero ... and a nudge.

even though Bush will go down in history as the worst president ever.

Time will tell. It depends on who is elected in 2008 - IMHO.

McCain really is too old and his mind has apparently stopped working.

You mean he's 'lost his bearings'?

Seriously. He isn't too old. Old is relative. He's healthier at his age then I am at 46. It isn't his age that's a problem, it's his policies.

Obama makes way more mistakes and gaffs, and he tells more lies and has more corruption then McCain, and Obama is ~30 years younger. It's not McCain's age... it's ... it's .... his nudgeness (new word I just made up for the occasion )

reply to post by jerico65


Yes, I am very familiar with Vitamin M. I did 4 years and took the GI bill. I work with a guy who is pulling full retirement, medical, used his GI bill. If you compare what he is getting with what I got, it isn't even close.

You see it as losing guys for college, the other side of that coin is that you get a lot of good quality people enlisting for college. Some even choose to stay and make a career out of it. I would rather have that then have no incentive for quality people to enlist.

reply to post by FlyersFan


He's a hero? Wait 'till the general election, I have a feeling we're all going to learn a lot about Mr. McCain. Obama is a liar to be sure, but I wouldn't be so quick to pat McCain on the back. Are the hookers and gourmet meals at the hilton what make him a hero?

IMO, the only reason anyone could support John McCain for president is that they feel that this country is currently doing the right things, in the right ways, under the current administration.

I think I'll be writing my own name in come November.

Originally posted by Unit541
He's a hero? Wait 'till the general election, I have a feeling we're all going to learn a lot about Mr. McCain. Obama is a liar to be sure, but I wouldn't be so quick to pat McCain on the back. Are the hookers and gourmet meals at the hilton what make him a hero?

I don't trust anybody in politics. They all lie and have something they are trying to hide. Bush has drugs, Clinton drugs and hookers (wait, he didn't inhale), Obama drugs, McCain hookers. They are all the same.

Originally posted by Unit541I think I'll be writing my own name in come November.

I'm writing in Elvis.

reply to post by Karlhungis


True. You do get a lot of good guys to enlist knowing that they'll get good college benefits after they get out. When they leave, you hope they either go to the Guard or Reserve so they can still use their experience for the new kids.

Originally posted by Unit541
the only reason anyone could support John McCain for president

I don't know if you were directing that at me or if you were just sort of chatting .... but you should know that I plan to vote for Ron Paul. - Just FYI

Originally posted by jerico65
You lose three NCOs, gain five Privates/Airman/Sailors. You've just lost 4+ years of experience and gain five guys that have to be trained to be back up to the levels of the guys you just lost.

If you have too many staying in then those at the bottom will have a hard time getting promoted, and they will not re-enlist. This happened to me, I had been an E-4 for 4½ years, made it first time up, but because the rate I was in was overmanned I couldn't make E-5, even with 4 years of PNA points and high test scores, so I got out after 6. High retention hurts the troops.

Also if you have too many NCO's their experience won't mean squat when they're put in charge of a buildings cleaning and maintenance crew because there's no where else to put them. At least in the Navy, maybe the Army and such is different.

The GI bill should be for enlisting, not serving. As long as you do your time and stay out of trouble you should get the full GI bill. Right now it's ridiculously low and won't pay for much more than a year at trade school.

The benefits of serving are way overrated...

McCain is a corrupt little stooge who will say anything to get him elected and then do the opposite as you see now. His stance on immigration is one that will permanently ruin this country and make us a third world nation if it does not cause an all out civil war witch I think it will if Congress was dumb enough to pass it.

He also mimicked Obamas move to say that we should remove all of our tactical nukes in a treaty with Russia. First off thats all Russia has right now as a deterrent and Putin will not go for that. The second is that they have twice as many as we do so they would need to come down to our levels first before any cuts are made. Third, The jerks took the money that we gave them to destroy ICBMS in the reduction treaty and built new ones that are more lethal than the old ones also with more warheads. At the same time we are still scraping our most advanced nuclear cruise missiles when they have double the amount of tactical nukes, Now the person ( GWB ) who is allowing all this to proceed should be drug into the senate and lambasted for it.

The minute Russia started building new nuclear ICBMs we should have revised and refreshed our Minute man program and maybe they would have stopped. Congress is ignoring the fact that while Russia has revived its nuclear weapons program and bomber patrols we are trashing our most advanced nuclear weapons. WTH is wrong with them idiots. We don't need more but don't throw away the best ones.

Guess I'm not joining to military. Or voting.

reply to post by Chotton


Good choices mate! You'd do better spending your time picking ya nose.
At least something positive can come out of that...