Exclusive: McClellan whacks Bush, White House Bush relied on "propaganda" to sell the war.

reply to post by mybigunit


Yeah, I agree he started the war on false presences..

It would have been smarter to blame Iraq directly after the attacks on 9/11 and plant some evidence.. guy wasn't smart enough.

Or maybe he didn't think America would care, that 2 years was not enough from the 9/11 attacks and we would still want Arabs dead. Which in a sense is correct.

However....

Don't flame me for saying this..

The war has had it's benefits.

For instance. We had a big market bubble burst as Clinton left office, the economy was reeling from this. Then 9/11 happens, conspiracy theories aside, it effected our economy severely. They played it off like it didn't, but we took a hit financially. Job's where cut, inflation began rising and consumer confidence falls.

Along comes a war. The war needs contractors, that means more jobs, more taxes, and a stimulated war time economy. Debt was pumped into the consumer pockets, confidence rose, and the economy rose. It sure as hell wasn't the 90's, and from a Gen Y perspective it wasn't that great. But without the war, the economy would have continued it's downward trend and the recession would have been far more severe.

Of course it probably just off set the judgment we are due for by 8 years, 8 more years of semi prosperity.. it may have caught up to us unless we can stimulate the economy with another war.

Ironically, it's the same thing every world power has done since time can be remembered. We must grow indefiniteness.. if we take all the jobs from the war and cut them, cut the contractors and reduce government spending to pre-war levels under Clinton, hundreds of thousands will be unemployed and the economy will tank. Already we are slowing down as we exit a war time economy, held up by magic numbers and fake reports.

I seriously believe without the war, we may have seen a depression. Hell, we may have still been in one. Then again, we may be heading for one anyways.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I dont agree we came out of the Dotcom bubble and the 9/11 recession cause of Iraq. It was because the FED pumped all sorts of money into the system to get people out and about. Now we are reaping the consequences of it with the high oil and food prices. Abolish the fed as I like to say. If the war was to REALLY have an impact on us it would be via dirt cheap gas prices but that didnt happen. So all the spoils go to one group and that is Bush's cronies like Haliburon, KBR, Blackwater, and all the oil conglomerates. I think if you saw $.12 gas like in Venuzuela more people would be a little more supportive of the cause. Mean of ME to say but probably true.

reply to post by mybigunit


But you have to remember, for the entire time we where at war thousands upon thousands of jobs where created under technically illegal "emergency war time spending budgets" to which ear marks where added that created agencies and all those jobs.

I believe as far up to First Quarter 2008 we saw the ONLY addition of jobs to the economy (keeping it in the black) where Government Jobs!

In 2001-2007 so many new agencies where added, and the current agencies expanded that the jobs created where the driving force of the economy. When in reality, business was not expanding. I believe the quote goes Bureaucracy is expanding, to fill the needs of the expanding Bureaucracy!

If no new government agency was created, and government spending kept in Clinton Era levels .. we would have seen a steep rise in unemployment, and the economy would have spiraled downward into a depression from a recession we where already in. The markets exploded on speculation, and speculation alone because the government messed with the numbers so bad it changed the way the entire market works.

Basically the government built an exo-skeleton with it's expanding bureaucracy but it was hallow inside, and now the gravity of government and personal debt will crush it.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by Rockpuck]

now would be a great time to get ATS on tv..cnn,fox,etc.

people need to wake up imo

Originally posted by Rockpuck

But you have to remember, for the entire time we where at war thousands upon thousands of jobs where created under technically illegal "emergency war time spending budgets" to which ear marks where added that created agencies and all those jobs.

I believe as far up to First Quarter 2008 we saw the ONLY addition of jobs to the economy (keeping it in the black) where Government Jobs!

In 2001-2007 so many new agencies where added, and the current agencies expanded that the jobs created where the driving force of the economy. When in reality, business was not expanding. I believe the quote goes Bureaucracy is expanding, to fill the needs of the expanding Bureaucracy!

We gained so many jobs for so long because we had lost so many jobs I dont know the numbers but after 9/11 and Enron the economy tanked and we lost millions of jobs. We basically put those people back to work.

If no new government agency was created, and government spending kept in Clinton Era levels .. we would have seen a steep rise in unemployment, and the economy would have spiraled downward into a depression from a recession we where already in. The markets exploded on speculation, and speculation alone because the government messed with the numbers so bad it changed the way the entire market works.

Basically the government built an exo-skeleton with it's expanding bureaucracy but it was hallow inside, and now the gravity of government and personal debt will crush it.

Congratulations Rock your a closet Democrat. Only a true Dem would be happy to see government expanding HUGE and all the jobs that were in the private sector going to the government which to this day is still holding true. The government is creating most of the jobs we have now otherwise unemployment would be way up. I guess thats one of the problems with shipping all of our jobs over seas the people have to work somewhere so why not work in a bigger government bureaucracy. The whole deal makes me sick.

reply to post by mybigunit

We gained so many jobs for so long because we had lost so many jobs I dont know the numbers but after 9/11 and Enron the economy tanked and we lost millions of jobs. We basically put those people back to work

Put them to work ..... in Government jobs.

Congratulations Rock your a closet Democrat. Only a true Dem would be happy to see government expanding HUGE and all the jobs that were in the private sector going to the government which to this day is still holding true.

Actually as I believe it was YOU who posted it, Republicans historically have bigger governments and employ more people then Dems. And I would actually say massive corporatized democracies are tendencies of Fascism.

By the way. Ever call me a Liberal again, I'll personally come down to Pizzles or where ever your from and smack you..

The government is creating most of the jobs we have now otherwise unemployment would be way up. I guess thats one of the problems with shipping all of our jobs over seas the people have to work somewhere so why not work in a bigger government bureaucracy. The whole deal makes me sick.

I agree, it makes me sick as well. It is, essentially .. cannibalistic.

reply to post by Rockpuck

Actually as I believe it was YOU who posted it, Republicans historically have bigger governments and employ more people then Dems. And I would actually say massive corporatized democracies are tendencies of Fascism.

Correct the republicans these days are closet democrats. In fact I almost think the roles have switched. It used to be the republicans were for small government and individual rights but now its almost the dems that are this way. Well I take that back dems are still for big government they are just for paying as you go ie higher taxes where as the repubs put it on the old charge card.


I didnt call you a libertarian I called you a democrat theres a difference. Dems are for big government and the nanny state where as libs are for small government and no police or nanny state. We like liberty hence libertarian. Sorry for calling you a dem though I know that hurts

The gist of what I'm reading in regards to Bush is the inner mind working of a true narcisist. Befuddled by how to respond to press reporters question of 'was Iraq a war of necessity or opportunity'. In so many words. I have never shaken off w's insiders pump to himself saying 'feel good' ya! 'feel good' prior to his first address of the nation when war was unleashed
'Can't remember if I ever did coke. We had some pretty wild parties.' You mean to tell me you can't remember taking a straw to your nose and snorting.
A narcisist mind is a scary place.
I truly loved the comments in regards to Condi. Whom I have a very special dislike of. If anyone thought slick Willy was good. Condi has the patent on teflon.
Then there is the real mastermind of this presidential office. Cheney. What he says goes. Like we didn't already know that.

This whole book sounds like a soul cleansing attempt. And big money of course. I can easily see him Foster or sexed up suicide with a surprising lack of blood.
I keep thinking about damage control in the WH now. Staffers marching around Northwing style desperately babbling how to staunch the blood letting. The rats are running from the WH like a sinking ship. This is but the tip of the iceberg. The look on his face responding to being told about first plane hitting towers was epic. Like a kid with his hand in a cookie jar.


[edit on 5/28/2008 by jpm1602]

[edit on 5/28/2008 by jpm1602]

In terms of the book I can the next president particularly Obama or McCain granting pardons to what will then be former members of the Bush admin . Who ever grants the pardons will cop a lot flak much like Ford did when he pardoned Nixon . IMO if Ford was still alive he would be feeling a sense of deja vu.

Wow! I wonder how much McClellan's going to have to pay for security now that his book is coming out.

What.. hmmm, he's 40 yrs old now but my bet he's not going to make it past 45 ... er, of natural causes of course.

If McCain or Obama pardons Bush I will bail. I will no longer consider America my home. Talk at ya from the other side of the hemisphere if that happens.

reply to post by xpert11


Well in certain terms, he's already kind of been let off the hook by that worthless Nancy "Impeachment's off the table" Pelosi...The House speaker has already proven what a traitor and co-conspiratory treasonist she is, as well as the rest of the complicit, cowardly congressional majority. They all totally betrayed the nation. BUT-We do have little glimmers of hope here and there, and as I said earlier, the more of these people that speak out, the bigger the case builds up. Couple that with an increasingly suffering and angry populace, and there is the potential for something to perhaps FINALLY get set into motion...

Originally posted by JazzyguyMaybe McClellan is just trying to wash his hand clean.

Or he is making his plea-bargain to the public-at-large: he has things to say, and he'll say them if he can be assured to look cleaner when it all goes down.

It's too late for him, in my book. He could have resigned at any moment, but I am not going to sit here and give him any benefits of the doubt when it comes to a conscience. If he cared about morals and values he would have been out long ago, rather than be the mouthpiece of the propaganda he is now admitting to spewing.

It shouldn't really come as a shock anyhow, all you had to do was watch him give a press conference and you could tell that he had much more working upstairs than he would let on.

I hope telling the truth gives him some for of personal peace, but the mothers of children in various nations that have lost their children to these senseless wars are not going to be so easily appeased, nor should they be. Not that most people care about that, after all, they're all terrorists.

Pelosi. What a worthless piece of junk. I have wrote, emailed to every congressman, senator, and Pelosi's office at least once. Telling them of my absolute and total disgust I have with this pseudo war. I know I'm a marked man. I did that as a patriot of America. While the reynolds wrap flow to bundle tens of k's in congressional freezers. The land of the free. Ha.

reply to post by jpm1602


Don't worry, I have been voicing my concerns to politicians for years, I remember still writing my first letter to a senator when I was 12. They haven't gotten to me yet, so you have some time. *knock on wood*

When we realize that these political parties are all facets of the same diamond, we'll be sharp enough to scratch it. Until then, our country will remain a bunch of bickering crazies. *shrug*

This is a bit more than irony. Nancy is obviously not comprehending what this remark should mean to the democratic speaker of the house presiding over the majority opposition. It's bizarro world again!

Nancy Pelosi "Totally Agrees" with Scott McClellan

While she hasn't yet read McClellan's tome ''I totally agree'' with his charges, said Pelosi. ''This war was unnecessary. Katrina was a black mark on how the government responded to the needs of our people, and didn't anticipate them.''

''This is a person who was talking to the press, supplied with information that he trusted to be truthful. So I'm sure he felt zapped. Because what could he say, except what he trusted to be the case?''

''I almost wonder how anybody associated with this war, unless they were of completely different philosophy, would not come to the conclusion that this war is a grotesque mistake, that it was misrepresented from the start, not prepared for correctly,'' said Pelosi.

''This war is a big lie. It was a lie to begin with..and it continues to be a lie..at some point, maybe the lies just got to be too heavy for him to carry,'' she said of the former White House spokesman.

reply to post by Leo Strauss


LMAO!! When the HELL did she say that?!?

If she STILL feels that way, then what in god's green earth is she doing in her little pacifist role of kissing this ever-criminalistic regime's arse day in and day out and not holding them accountable for ANY OF IT?

Are all these people completely insane?

I am hoping to escape the USA....I'm think of emigratng to Australia.

It's a beautiful country. Nice people. Canada, also a great country, nice people, but just too close to the USA, the way things are going. Sorry.

Mexico, very near by, might be feasible.....but it will soon be over-run with Yanks!!!

Going on holiday, in July, to the Baltic. Will have my Passport, and what's in my suitcases. Hopefully, if the excrement hits the fan, will have my ATM card to withdraw as much as needed, if needed....

I'm despairing of the path the country of my birth is taking. We've seen the 'writing on the wall' before....it has happened, it may happen again. Ironic, isn't it, that one of the countries I will be visiting on Holiday is Germany? Seven decades ago, a very different country....today, a beacon of democracy.....

AAAAHAHAHAHA...Now DESPERATE damage control is kicking in!!


Whitehouse Officials are 'Flat Out Angry', Calling McClellan 'Traitor', 'Benedict'

MSNBC’s Kevin Corke reported this afternoon that White House officials, on background, went even further, calling McClellan a “traitor” and likening him to Benedict Arnold. He said the White House was “upset,” substituting that word for a word he said he could not repeat on television:

CORKE: I have heard on background they are upset. I’m using the word upset because that’s not the word they used, and it is not the word I can say on TV. Another person said they are flat out angry about what transpired here. I heard the word “traitor” and “Benedict.” I think another person said to me, not far from here, it was like a shot to the gut when you are not looking. […]

O’DONNEL: Quickly Kevin, a White House staffer said to you on background — they used the word “traitor”?

CORKE: “Traitor.” Absolutely. And I raised my eyebrows, and he said, It is what it is.

Oooohhh, so they consider him to be the "snitch" against all of their criminal activities now...So now he's a "traitor" for not keeping quiet...

Guess what, all of you admin loyalists who have been behind the criminality of this regime and it's treason against this NATION are traitors! You have sold US ALL out!

The right wing is circling the wagons to go on damage control. National Review’s blog, the Corner, insisted today that McClellan was a Hamas apologist. Michelle Malkin derides McClellan as a “turncoat,” and Commentary’s Jennifer Rubin calls the book “catty” and its author a “hack,” and dismisses McClellan as “probably the worst White House press secretary in recent memory.”

Predictability, anyone?

Source
thinkprogress.org...

Leo! Awesome press. The rats have no where to run now. This is highly illuminating. Pelosi had her chance in 'real life' to lay down the gauntlet though.
Rofl DD! Benedict Arnold. I knew they would come out with 45's blazing. So typical. And expected.

[edit on 5/28/2008 by jpm1602]