Israel 'has 150 nuclear weapons'

reply to post by manson_322


No I'm not a Troll, but some of us have jobs and other relavant activities to perform besides spending our whole day pulling singularities out of the internet and calling them facts. Try using some credible sources every now and then and you'll have better luck convincing people of your point. Besides, I have much better things to do than arguing with terrorist sympathisers.

By the way, the point I was trying to make and you completely missed is that none of us really need or even should have nuclear weapons, but they are a fact of life so they cannot be ignored. And what I said was that as long as we (the US) have nukes and waging war, we have no right to try and dictate who has nuclear weapons and wage war. So whether Israel or Iran or Iraq or whoever has nukes to me is none of our or anybody elses business. At least not until we get rid of ours. And you know when that will happen; never.

Also, you are obviously anti-Jewish in the worst way and whatever I say or what ever proof you are presented with will never make any difference. However, in an effort to try and get this thread back on the correct path again, I will say one more thing. This thread is about Carter trying to stir things up between Israel and Palestine, as if they need any help. But the question is why is one of our government representatives doing this? Is it for us (as in the US government itself) or does he have his own agenda? Is he on someones payroll or is he an anti-semite like you? This is the issue of this thread not is the country of Israel guilty of war crimes.

[edit on 29-5-2008 by lonewolf37]

Originally posted by xxpigxx
reply to post by manson_322

 

Instead of calling BS on everything, perhaps you should engage in some reading comprehension?

The president of Iran does not like Israel. He was mistranslated as saying that he wants to wipe Israel off of the map.

True, he did not say those exact words, but the meaning is the same. The people who are claiming he was mistranslated and Iran looooves Israel (exaggeration there on my part ;D ) are playing the semantics game. Just like the classic Bill Clinton line: "What is the meaning of 'is?'"

As for the proof about the rally . . . google is your friend.

Start with this, which happened a few years ago.



[edit on 29/5/2008 by xxpigxx]

True, he did not say those exact words, but the meaning is the same. The people who are claiming he was mistranslated and Iran looooves Israel (exaggeration there on my part ;D ) are playing the semantics game. Just like the classic Bill Clinton line: "What is the meaning of 'is?'"

so you implicitly admit that you can't prove what you try to show ..

Instead of calling BS on everything, perhaps you should engage in some reading comprehension?

as usual more BS coming from arrogant american

reply to post by lonewolf37

No I'm not a Troll, but some of us have jobs and other relavant activities to perform besides spending our whole day pulling singularities out of the internet and calling them facts. Try using some credible sources every now and then and you'll have better luck convincing people of your point. Besides, I have much better things to do than arguing with terrorist sympathisers.

so you mean you have no proof about what you post ???
what proof you have that i am terrorist sympathiser??
really when did i sympathise with Alqaeda,mercenaries(blackwater) or israeli terrorist army

Try using some credible sources every now and then and you'll have better luck convincing people of your point.

i haven't seen any proof yet???


whats proof for you??

like pro-israeli propaganda

Also, you are obviously anti-Jewish in the worst way

i am against the excesses performed by zionist leaders in form of warcrimes and ethnic cleansing and not anti-jewish as you claim ...

and even the varoius sects of jews have differing views on zionism:

roups which are opposed to recognition of the State of Israel

[edit] Satmar

Main article: Satmar (Hasidic dynasty)

The Satmar Hasidic movement, whose previous Rebbe, Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum wrote in the 1960s an extensive critique of Zionism entitled Vayoel Moshe (see Sefer Vayoel Moshe below), counts more than 100,000 members. This does not include a number of smaller and related anti-Zionist Hungarian Hasidic groups who align themselves with Satmar. [11]

The Central Rabbinical Congress or CRC is an American rabbinical organization which consists mainly of Satmar and some smaller but similar Hasidic groups. It is centered in New York's Kiryas Joel, Williamsburg, and Boro Park. In 1986 the CRC publicized the following declaration:

It is our duty to denounce those who invoke the name of the Almighty in vain. It is our holy obligation and our moral responsibility to call on them: Stop using these falsehoods and heresies to justify yourselves and your misdeeds. The Jewish faith, as transmitted by the Almighty to our forefathers has not and will never countenance the zionist and nationalistic doctrines of the state of Israel. These false doctrines are compounded of atheism and anti-religious zionism, ideologies alien to Judaism. Let them not be misrepresented to the world as Jewish.
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 29-5-2008 by manson_322]

One quick Google search turned up www.guardian.co.uk...
which seem credible enough, as if the statement of a former US President with some nuclear background isn't enough. I don't have much use for Carter in general, but why would he say this if he knows it's not true, and if anyone would know, a former US President would. The US for years has worked closely with the UK on the Trident missile, which they depoy in their version of the Trident submarine (Ohio class in the US) The US has also rebuilt a couple of Trident boomers to carry cruise missiles, with a couple more coming.

The fact is, that the nuclear club that the US has been holding over the heads of the world, along with the Russians and all others that have them, does nothing against the current terrorism threat. You can't use them. They were meant to be a 'strategic deterrent'. The only ones that would use them are hot headed rogue nations, which if used, would describe anyone including Israel. They probably have them, and they are probably on submarines, as they would be easy to take out on Israeli soil. For this same reason, the Trident subs are still being used rather than missile silos in fixed positions, by the US and UK and the Russians. The result of actually using nuclear weapons - even 'small' ones by any nation would have dire consequences for that nation, and every one in the world. They have been deployed (and the US at least will not confirm or deny any nukes wherever they may be) only for the threat. Again, Strategic Deterrence. The bad thing now is that only the terrorists or terroristic nations would actually be likely to use them without caring much about consequences. Besides, if it can't be traced to a particular group or nation, who would you attack?

Nukes reportedly traveling across the US 'unaccounted' for, and the incredulous concept that this could actually happen (it couldn't) is a lot more scary than if Israel had them. They do, probably supplied by the US, and they are probably highly controlled by the US. If used they would be tracable to the US. And of course, they were pretested by the US, which didn't worry too much about the effects in Nevada and elsewhere in the US at the time. Israel could certainly save a few bucks and say they have them, as the threat is the only benefit. Beyond that, just diminishing returns.

The conversion to cruise missiles on US subs doesn't mean they aren't nuclear, they can be, and in that form can be smaller yield, more specifically targeted. But no one that values the use of oil wants to see any kind of nuclear action in the middle east particularly.

As a Christian I could never understand why so many people in the Middle East, the 'Holy Land' are so onry. Always fighting over land in an area that does not remotely compare with the land of the US where there has been no such problem at least for the last couple hundred years. Now, some from Mexico may want to change that, but we will see how that works out for them.

reply to post by lonewolf37



I just love how if you are against Israel policies in any way shape or form we label them anti-Semite.. this is a joke and it really needs to stop... are Americans that are against Bush's policy labeled anti-American?no they are still American, I know many Jews that share masons ideas about the State of Israel.. are they also ani-Semite? This is an old trick I suggest you stop using because its crap. One thing is to be against a government, and another thing is to be against its people, a culture and a religion! I suggest you apologize to manson regarding that comment, That was totally out of line!

I am so sick of people defending the government of Israel... Especially when they are Americans! and are essentially being traitors to the United States of America. Why would you support a country that has numerous spies operating here? This is TREASON. Mind you I am an American Jew, But I am still American! Here is a recent spy that was apprehended in NY... one of many many that have been caught in the past 30+ years.. If you love Israel so much then I suggest you go move there or stop betraying your country!

www.canadafreepress.com...

Feds nab Israeli spy in New York City espionage case
Federal law enforcement officials revealed on Tuesday that they the arrested of Ben-Ami Kadish on charges that he participated in a criminal conspiracy to disclose to the Government of Israel documents related to the national defense of the United States and, in connection with that unauthorized disclosure, that Kadish participated in a conspiracy to act as an agent for the Government of Israel.

According to the Complaint filed in Manhattan federal court: From about 1979 through 1985, Kadish, a citizen of the United States, was a mechanical engineer, employed at the U.S. Army's Armament Research, Development, and Engineering Center at the Picatinny Arsenal in Dover, New Jersey (the "Arsenal"). The Arsenal kept a library of documents with classified information related to the national defense of the United States (the "Library").

On numerous occasions during this time period, Kadish borrowed classified documents (the "Classified Documents") from the Library and took the Classified Documents to his residence in New Jersey (the "Residence"). At the Residence, Kadish would then provide the Classified Documents to a co-conspirator not named in the indictment as a defendant ("CC-1"), who would photograph the Classified Documents in the basement of the Kadish Residence.

From at least 1980 through 1985, CC-1, a citizen of Israel, was employed by the Government of Israel as the Consul for Science Affairs at the Israeli Consulate General in Manhattan and directed Kadish to provide the Classified Documents to him (CC-1).

One of the Classified Documents that Kadish provided to CC-1 contained information concerning nuclear weaponry and was classified as "Restricted Data," a specific designation by the U.S. Department of Energy, because the document contained atomic-related information.

Another one of the Classified Documents that Kadish provided CC-1 contained information concerning a major weapons system — a modified version of an F-15 fighter jet that the United States had sold to another country. This document was classified by the Department of Defense as "Secret" and was further restricted as "Noforn," or "Not Releasable to Foreign Nationals."

Another one of the Classified Documents borrowed by Kadish from the Arsenal Library contained information concerning a major weapons system and major element of defense strategy — the U.S. Patriot missile air defense system. This document was classified by the Department of Defense as "Secret."

On March 20, 2008, Kadish and CC-1 had a telephone conversation, during which CC-1 instructed Kadish to lie to federal law enforcement officials. The following day, during an interview with the FBI, Kadish denied having had the telephone conversation with CC-1.

Kadish is charged with four counts: one count of conspiring to disclose documents related to the national defense of the United States to the Government of Israel; one count of conspiring to act as an agent of the Government of Israel; one count of conspiring to hinder a communication to a law enforcement officer; and one count of conspiring to make a materially false statement to a law enforcement officer.

Kadish is scheduled to appear this afternoon before United States Magistrate Judge Douglas F. Eaton in Manhattan federal court.

This prosecution is being handled by Assistant United States Attorney Iris Lan of the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York and Trial Attorney Kathleen Kedian of the Counterespionage Section of the Justice Department's National Security Division.

Jim Kouri, CPP is currently fifth vice-president of the National Association of Chiefs of Police. He's former chief at a New York City housing project in Washington Heights nicknamed "Crack City" by reporters covering the drug war in the 1980s. In addition, he served as director of public safety at a New Jersey university and director of security for several major organizations. He's also served on the National Drug Task Force and trained police and security officers throughout the country.

Jim writes for many police and crime magazines including Chief of Police, Police Times, The Narc Officer, Campus Law Enforcement Journal, and others. He's appeared as on-air commentator for over 100 TV and radio news and talk shows including Oprah, McLaughlin Report, CNN Headline News, MTV, Fox News, etc. His book Assume The Position is available at Amazon.Com, Booksamillion.com, and can be ordered at local bookstores.

Jim holds a bachelor of science in criminal justice and master of arts in public administration and he's a board certified protec

Originally posted by Evisscerator


Now that Iran, with the help of North Korea and Russia, has nuclear material to make into bombs, the question is not when will Iran attack, but Who will be the highest bidder of the nuclear materials or weapons created from them to use against the west and its allies (including Israel)?

EXACTLY.
the main difference between Israel having nuclear missles v.s. a terrorist regime such as Iran or Syria having them, is that Israel isn't there to bully other nations, or to impose insane minded terrorist threats towards other nations, they have them simply for self defense.
The day the likes of Iran or Syria obtaining them is the day that they pass these WMD's on to smaller terrorist groups so they can use them, and then play the same old blame game that it's 'not us' that did it...
That is why Iran must be stopped before it is too late, plain and simple.
All of the BUSH HATERS out there will wake up in the long run when they see that all of his efforts and looking at the 'big picture' all along was to do good and to protect the world from lunatics like these.

Its an open secret Israel has nuclear weapons, the question has always been the number. I've heard it put as low as 80 and as high as 250.

I sometimes wonder what Israel hopes to achieve with so many nuclear weapons. I personally think it just encourages Syria and Iran to fund terrorist groups, since on conventional grounds they know they can never compete, and reponses with nuclear weapons cannot be moderated to such groups. Of course, they probably wouldn't stop if Israel had no nukes, but it just fixes that advantage of using terrorists as a strategic tool in their mind.

Either way, its a sticky problem and I'd personally prefer no nukes being anywhere near the Middle East at all. That place already has enough religious nuttery and powerful non-state actors without putting such weapons into the equation.

Originally posted by Purgatory

Originally posted by Evisscerator


Now that Iran, with the help of North Korea and Russia, has nuclear material to make into bombs, the question is not when will Iran attack, but Who will be the highest bidder of the nuclear materials or weapons created from them to use against the west and its allies (including Israel)?

EXACTLY.
the main difference between Israel having nuclear missles v.s. a terrorist regime such as Iran or Syria having them, is that Israel isn't there to bully other nations, or to impose insane minded terrorist threats towards other nations, they have them simply for self defense.
The day the likes of Iran or Syria obtaining them is the day that they pass these WMD's on to smaller terrorist groups so they can use them, and then play the same old blame game that it's 'not us' that did it...
That is why Iran must be stopped before it is too late, plain and simple.
All of the BUSH HATERS out there will wake up in the long run when they see that all of his efforts and looking at the 'big picture' all along was to do good and to protect the world from lunatics like these.

Do you really believe Iran or Syria would sanction groups like Hezbollah to have nuclear weapons?

I know its a common stereotype, but they'd have to not only be crazy, but very bad politicians to purposefully give such groups weapons. Because knowing terrorists as I do, they'd immediately use such a weapon to blackmail their own funders within those governments.

The real worry is theft or unsanctioned launch. Iran I believe does have the necessary executive complexity so that an individual nutter wont set off a weapon, but Syria likely does not. Equally, I question whether either country could adequately protect their nuclear facilities, especially from a group like Hezbollah.

Both Syria and Iran have plans contingent on them not being turned into parking lots by the US Navy, so I suspect they are not overly keen on nuclear weapons for offensive purposes. Indeed, almost all proliferation of nuclear weapons in the last two decades has been for defensive purposes or bargaining tools. I suspect Iran's insistence on nuclear power is economically motivated as well, which will stymie production of weapons for a number of years. Furthermore, I think they will try to use nuclear production as a bargaining tool with the US over Iraq, in much the same way that North Korea did with its own situation.

I think the situation is much more complex than you present, and there is a lot of grandstanding being done in the name of medium term political gain. I don't believe the US especially is looking towards attacking Iran either, but both sides are keeping their respective threats on the table, because it means when it comes to diplomacy, they can command a higher price during negotiations.

reply to post by Purgatory


Israel isn't bullying other nations??? how about the Palestinians? how about the poor Lebanese that received so many direct casualties? Due to Israel directly targeting civilians because of the abduction of 1 soldier? How about the USS Liberty which was no accident and an obvious attempt to drag the U.S into its 6 day war? How about all the spies being found here in the U.S? Not bullying other nations... what planet are you from?

reply to post by Shar


Not only do they have nukes ... they also have neutron bombs ...

Thank God Brazil don't have nuclear bombs!!

I suppose the only new aspect of this..... to my ears..... was the assignment of a specific number of nukes. It's been generally the unspoken reality that Israeli is a nuclear power.
Even if they were denying it, and that is not the case, I would assume them to be in possession of such weapons, as they've had in excess of 50 years espionage in which to acquire the knowledge.

While I truly do not think they would unilaterally initiate attack.... given the array of their foes and the current Islamic Imperialism afoot in the mid east a retaliatory nuclear strike such as the "Sampson Option" (thanks for that info from another poster) is I believe HIGHLY likely.

reply to post by Shar


I hope Jimmy Carter goes to Israel and they arrest him for espionage. The could trade him for Mr. Pollock who was jailed in the Reagan Administration for giving secrets to Israel.

I know for a fact they have them---the length ---the weight--and the layout of the secret bunker were they are kept.

How do i know????

because ,i had built a missle loading machine for them--- that's how..



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