Confessions of an Ex-Mason Basher

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by android1296

 

So, you´ve stopped bashing masonry because you found out its all hot air and your new scapegoat is "the jewish mafia"?

What I learned is that it is not just "hot air" and that there is a profound philosophical construction to the design. These people knew what they were doing.

The Jewish Mafia is just common sense. The criminality we see in government can be traced back to the policies and the dictates set in motion by people, and the people that are behind it are the Russian gangsters by and large aligned with Likud.

These people are quite professional equally.

My point is that a powerful Masonic counter weight to organized criminality operating under aegis of state is one recipe for reversing the current fortunes that English speaking lands find themselves under.

Why is it that all of our English speaking lands are currently sending their sons and daughters to die in foreign lands?

Why is it that after the Russian purges of the 1990's of so many of its Jews (to the US and Israel), that the Russian people have been able to literally go after the criminal elements like the Oligarchs (the same Russian Jewish mafia).

Politics is about reality and movements.

I dont think its a certain race or group you are looking for as the cause of the worlds evils. The source of evil is a certain mindset. And you can find this mindset all over the place, not only in a certain group.

On this we would disagree. Evil as an individual is manageable. The psychopath can be tracked down and dealt with. Organized evil is a different matter, so you must examine the power centers.

Money
Media
Black-Ops

How is it that the media is able to maintain precise (precision) targeting of messages? Why does "Al Qaeda" continue to exist even as it is known to be a propaganda vehicle? Who are the editors responsible and what is the agenda behind same?

These are the issues the individual needs to examine and yet the individual is not organized. So in the face of organization, the individual has not a chance.

Power is fluid and static equally.

Not to slight my Brother from New York - Over here in Massachusetts we are AF&AM


What is interesting is I have been to Lodges from Mexico City to Toronto Canada. About 25 States in the US. I doubt very much if I asked 10 Brothers from each of those Lodges what they thought Freedom meant that I would get more than 2 or 3 different answers on the subject.

Mexico was the most fun. I do not speak Spanish BUT I did do the Junior Deacon position since they had a tradition of visiting Brethren doing the Tyler or Junior Deacon on their first visit. I did my part in English and since ritual is very standardized at least that I have seen in North America I had no problem doing it right at the right place. I knew what they were saying for Ritual even if I did not know Spanish.

Additionally in Mexico after the meeting I was told they had talked about the local Mayor of the town I was in and how he was grafting and what they should do to help his opponent in the next election.

I have communicated with many Brothers over my 18 years as a Mason and 8 as a DeMolay and I have had the privilege of knowing a few in other countries. Politics is only against the rules in the United States. Why is that?

Do we not trust our Brothers?

Maybe "Discuss Politics" is not the right way to say it.

It is mentioned the loss of the Tax Exempt status as an arguement against it. So you would be worried that exercising our right to Free Speech and assembly would give the Government the right to take away that status? Okay so it would be more money out of our pockets. Hell I think it is wrong that the Government has done that to a couple churches. I think that alone is a violation of our 1st Amendment rights by using the tax exempt listing as a weapon to keep our mouths shut.

Giving Fuel to the Conspiracy people. Seriously it wouldn't make a difference. I can see it now. Masons control the Government. They BROUGHT BACK Democracy and freedom for the people. Oh My God they must be stopped. What does it matter what someone who is ill informed and over the top thinks as long as we help the United States get back to the Representative Republic is should be and was.

I am not talking actually having another Tea Party, though something like that may need to be done again. I am trying to figure out how to say what I am thinking in my head properly to show how it could work.

I will try and come up with a better statement of what I am thinking as I have to get to work right now.

My wife made in interesting comment to me last night. She suggested that maybe the reason that Masons and of course others are willingly allowing the United States Government to slowly take away our freedoms is that we are too scared of losing what we have and what we enjoy for a lifestyle. We are going to lose everything if nothing is done.

deleted

[edit on 23-5-2008 by android1296]

Ive read a ton of material on the Masons. In my 20's it sounded cool that someone wanted to take over the world. Now that I have grown up a bit and I am not the fear monger I once was, I think the real enemy is Hello Kitty from Japan. Just as Im not sure UFO's are Alien Spaceships from other planets, Im not too worried about the Masons.

reply to post by android1296


I find the statement that the Masonic fraternity is in decline interesting. It is true that a generation of Masons seems to have done a poor job in passing the fraternity to their sons and other members of the next generation. I have heard various theories as to the reasons for this: the Counter Culture of the 1960s, a decline in membership institutions generally, the rise of television.

A recent and still emerging trend however suggests that this is coming to an end. In my home state, for example, the membership figures are sharply on the rise. I suspect that the Brotherhood owes a debt of thanks to Dan Brown.

Originally posted by wlessard
What is interesting is I have been to Lodges from Mexico City to Toronto Canada. About 25 States in the US. I doubt very much if I asked 10 Brothers from each of those Lodges what they thought Freedom meant that I would get more than 2 or 3 different answers on the subject.

If you asked them how masonry should be involved in politics, you would get 10 different answers. And that is the problem. There are many people who feel strongly about their politics and are the opposite ends of the political spectrum - how would using the fraternity to accomplish political goals maintain peace amongst those who don't agree with the goal? And exactly, again, who gets to decide what political motive is more worthy than another? Majority vote? Your still going to anger and possibly lose a large portion of people.

I cannot think of one political issue that would not cause major division. About as far as you could go is saying the fraternity is for those larger-than-life patriotic concepts that evoke images of the flag waving - liberty, freedom, free speech, etc. - the problem is once you try to figure out what any of those things mean, people start to disagree.

Originally posted by wlessard
Additionally in Mexico after the meeting I was told they had talked about the local Mayor of the town I was in and how he was grafting and what they should do to help his opponent in the next election.

This is frightening. I would never be a member of a lodge that did this sort of thing, because if EVERYONE is agreeing on a partisan election candidate then we have too much group think going on.

Originally posted by wlessard
Do we not trust our Brothers?

I'm reading your comments as offering some sort of false dichotomy - either we allow politics and thus we allow "free speech" and "trust" each other, or we don't. I don't see it that way. I trust the brothers to make their own political decisions outside the lodge. We can talk politics informally if we want to - outside the lodge.

I think the growth of anti-masonry should be a concern. In the US, the fraternity is already being attacked by all sides (conspiracy theorists, anti-semitics, religious bigots, etc.). Its happening even when there is absolute proof that, in the US, most of the theories are prima facie wrong because there is no discussion of politics in the lodge. I can only image the avalanche that would be caused by allowing politics. In fact, you'd essentially be helping create the next Anti-Mason party. Look at the OP in this case. They seem to have changed their conspiracy target from "the masons" to "the jewish mafia." I'm pretty sure if we allowed politics, the targeted group could easily change again.

I would sum it up by saying we live in a different era. It is no longer as simple as viewing things through a black and white lens - during the revolution, there was an easy black and white case to make for many citizens. That no longer exists.

I think your comments is a primary example of why this would never work - you are working on the whole supposition that we are "allowing" the government to "slowly take away our freedoms." I disagree 100%. I see nothing but politics as usual. And while you say its because we're "scared of losing what we have," I'd say anyone who believes this is happening is simply looking for a conflict where none exists. Now, given these two opinions, how exactly do you think the lodge can be used in a political way that makes you and I happy?


[edit on 23-5-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

I would like to piggy back off the post regarding membership. Our districts have been seeing wonderful numbers of fine younger men looking to help better themselves. My blue lodge usually sees 10 men a month seek membership and out of those 10 men about 8 stick with it. We are out growing our Lodge! I guess it is a great problem to have.

There is currently being a study done by myself as well as another brother regarding the Baby-Boom generation and their lack of interest. Some areas we are finding are as such:

1. They are a very wealthy generation and to hold such wealth one must work many hours leaving nearly no time for outside obligations.

2. The draft during the Vietnam war or any war that is not made up of a professional army usually spends up most of the energy that one would have to better their community.

3. There is a distrust with any sort of establishment, government or otherwise.

There any many more areas that we cover and our book should be out in a year. ( i guess this first post of mine is nothing more but a plug) i am sorry. Thank you for your time

reply to post by driley

I find the statement that the Masonic fraternity is in decline interesting. It is true that a generation of Masons seems to have done a poor job in passing the fraternity to their sons and other members of the next generation.

They... failed miserably. In fact, the only reason there is a rising interest in Masonry is quite simply men in their 20-30's are looking into them selves and started bringing in people they know.

The Fraternity changed imo under the rule of the Boomers.. and like everything else this generation has touched, it corroded it and changed it.

Why is it the "youth" never had interest Masonry? They did.. they had interest in what Masonry SHOULD be.. and they joined, sometimes disheartened by what they see.. Masonry could be something great, and it could be a benefit to all of Society, HOWEVER, it is not and I say it is not because the care that it has received has been negligent.

Just as the New Age Movement picks up pace, so will those souls looking for something bigger and better then themselves, and they will look at Masonry and as the old generation dies off, the younger generation will change it once again.

This is my personal view on the topic..

It is no secret that numbers are declining, lodge attendance at an all time low, and more Masons dieing off then being replaced. Instead of fixing the problem, ignorance prevails and those entrusted with power use cheap and pathetic methods to "save" the Fraternity.. tools like One Day Classes, which is a scourge on Masonry..

A recent and still emerging trend however suggests that this is coming to an end. In my home state, for example, the membership figures are sharply on the rise. I suspect that the Brotherhood owes a debt of thanks to Dan Brown.

Numbers are on the rise in some places. In some places the increases are also fictional and made up, or otherwise the cheap generation of Ring Masons who have no real interest in the Craft.

I would suspect that those who ARE joining, are active, and so forth join not because of Dan Brown or his books, but instead because they simply where looking for "something" .. and they found Masonry. Now we just have to hope Masonry will full fill that "Something" for them.

Edit to fix grammar that the spell checker decided to implement upon it's own free will and accord!! Now THERE is a conspiracy for you!!!

[edit on 5/23/2008 by Rockpuck]

Seems "The Fetch" was already a member here, but banned.

I started with some of your keywords in this latest post and did a few searches. Such gems as "Jewish Mafia," "Setianists", "Judaic Noahidists," etc. (along with "Fetch"), immediately brought me to Liberty Forum.

TheFetch (his posts at Liberty Forum)

In this post, he's appreciative of all the traffic being sent his way by android1296's post. In the same thread, he (TheFetch) and another guy are decrying the injustice of being banned from ATS before.

From that, it was pretty straightforward to find out that "The Fetch" to which android1296 loves to promote, is aka ATS's "TheFetch" and EvesRib.

"TheFetch" aka "EvesRib" has already had his clock cleaned by ATS-ers before. This post is "enlightening"...

"Volvo" and "Occult Symbol"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a perfect example of the utterly incorrect assumptions that some occultists of late propose, because they've been influenced by the likes of a Tsarion, among others. They take English words and go off into an occult wonderland of freestyle interpretation, and disregard (because they are not schooled in linguistics) the classic etymological origins of everyday words. Fetcho's ("TheFetch" aka "EvesRib") stab at "Volvo" and "Iron" is humorous and quite amateurish; Cug, and others, takes him to the cleaners.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]

Originally posted by Rockpuck

The Fraternity changed imo under the rule of the Boomers.. and like everything else this generation has touched, it corroded it and changed it.

I have to disagree with this. The Boomers never took an interest in Masonry. Very few of them became Masons.

The change was due to the Boomers' fathers. They joined Masonry after coming home from WWII. They sought good fellowship and comradeship, like they had during the war. Not being interested in the Craft's esoteric aspects, they developed it into the modern social club.

These guys, by the way, are still the top leaders of Freemasonry in the United States. Their numbers are declining due to the advancement of age, but they still hold the reigns.

It is no secret that numbers are declining, lodge attendance at an all time low, and more Masons dieing off then being replaced. Instead of fixing the problem, ignorance prevails and those entrusted with power use cheap and pathetic methods to "save" the Fraternity.. tools like One Day Classes, which is a scourge on Masonry..

I agree with you on the one day classes. But Freemasonry in the US is beginning to experience a turnaround. More and more candidates are coming in, and the first time in a long while, Lodges are busy with degree work. Even more significant, the candidates tend to be younger (18-32).

A recent and still emerging trend however suggests that this is coming to an end. In my home state, for example, the membership figures are sharply on the rise. I suspect that the Brotherhood owes a debt of thanks to Dan Brown.

Agreed. I tink "National Treasure", the Nat Geo shows, and the wild imaginations of Internet anti-Masons have also contributed to the increasing popularity of Masonry. Ironically, I've had several new brothers tell me that wouldn't have even known Freemasonry existed were it not for the Internet anti-Masons. Good job, guys!

This tread has strayed away from the original idea, but it has gotten very interesting. Our lodge is looking to expand membership as all lodges whould be, but we usually dont' have these kinds of discussions. We never to my knowlege have a group brainstorming session with other masons from other states. This would be an awesome way to share ideas and past expirience. Would any other masons here be interested in trying to start some sort of site for this? I would try to keep it open for masons and non masons alike to eliminate stories of world domination and such, and possible bring in more good men.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The Boomers never took an interest in Masonry. Very few of them became Masons.

The change was due to the Boomers' fathers. They joined Masonry after coming home from WWII. They sought good fellowship and comradeship, like they had during the war. Not being interested in the Craft's esoteric aspects, they developed it into the modern social club.

These guys, by the way, are still the top leaders of Freemasonry in the United States. Their numbers are declining due to the advancement of age, but they still hold the reigns.

That's the most succinct explanation of modern day Freemasonic demographics I've ever encountered. I wonder if the same is true in Europe?

So, it is probably safe to say that Gen X-ers and up, are going to steer the organization into a much different course - once they gain real power, that is.

The viewpoints of the masonic bloggers certainly represent a step back towards the esotericism of earlier days.

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


Yes, I would say Generation X and Generation Y are both moving back towards "traditional" Masonry, not the social club that it is now. Which decpite Masonic Lights explanation, I sitll hold that Boomers in their 60's have more power then the GG'ers. But it's not an age thing that makes someone different. I think there is an increase of "new" Masons in the sense that no one in their family is a Mason. All of the guys my age except one have no family in Masonry aside from themselves. My self included. So we are not restricted to "this is Masonry" and instead, it is an idea and concept that has no bounds, and no one to tell us what it is. Essentially somewhere a long the lines a philosophical change will have to occure, and I can only hope it is those in my generation that do it. Right now the lodge is far to concerned with planning events 10 months in the future and keeping the lodge out of the community.

But alas, only time will tell.

Uhhh... holy crap. Any mods out there??? .. I don't know what the heck happened.. comp spaz attack or something?!




Mod Edit: All cleaned up.

[edit on 23/5/08 by JAK]

Thanks mod - who ever and where ever you are! - (imagines batman..) Saved the day!

I would like to add my two cents in on freemasonry where I’m at (So. Cal) as far as I know lodges are now a lot younger. My lodge in particular more than half of the officers in the line are under the age of 44. I’m 19 and I am NOT the youngest person in my lodge, there are 3 18 year olds, a couple 21 year olds as well, they are active too. From what I see everyone that is younger in the lodges, not just mine but others, are looking more for something then just to sit around and do nothing in lodge.

I have met many brethren who are on a spiritual path and have joined masonry for a more spiritual reason, rather then a charitable one, even though they still play that part as well, but that is not their main motive. Also last year in my lodge during the year of 2007, we had a degree every single Thursday night (except stated meetings, and holidays). I think in California alone we had over 1,200 E.A's I don’t know the number of M.M. that were made out of those, but they said that was one of the biggest numbers of new initiates we have seen in a LONG time.

There was an article in the L.A. Times the past week about freemasonry and the new age flux and what the new younger members are doing. They also talked about online masons as well! I have the link here for you.

L.A. Times new Membership boom


i thought this was pretty interesting and thought that it was funny to see them talking about the "Web Generation"

I think ML is on the right track, The guys comming back for the war did make freemasonry into a social club, but also changed the way we looked at the world. It was during this time frame that there was a big push from the spirtal to the material. Everyone decided that a big house, nice car and money was more attractive than inner growth. The Gen X ers have growned up with all the toys and material things and have found that it leaves them somewhat empty on the inside. Old saying Money can't buy happiness is being proved once again.

[edit on 23-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by driley

 

Numbers are on the rise in some places. In some places the increases are also fictional and made up, or otherwise the cheap generation of Ring Masons who have no real interest in the Craft.

I would suspect that those who ARE joining, are active, and so forth join not because of Dan Brown or his books, but instead because they simply where looking for "something" .. and they found Masonry. Now we just have to hope Masonry will full fill that "Something" for them.

I know that the Lodge I am considering petitioning (all anti-Masonic propaganda persuading me not to take this step must be sent with references to trustworthy sources) has had a huge boom in membership -- active, younger (30s) men who have rediscovered the fraternity because of pop media and then looked into it out of curiosity, found out the truth about the Masonic Fraternity and felt something in themselves calling them to the brotherhood.

I suspect many people of my generation and the next miss having contact with people in a setting of acceptance and mutual trust. And there is something deeply attractive about the opportunity to make friendships with people you might otherwise never have had the chance to know.

Just my .02 -- or, heck, with the economy the way it is, I can't afford that much. Let's call it .01.

D

reply to post by bushidomason


Hey Bushido, I started a thread on that very article but it was moved to general chit-chat. Please check it out and comment if you like.

As I have stated elsewhere my lodge, and to a lesser degree our district, is seeing a very big resurgence in the amount of individuals petitioning for membership. The majority are younger and a re being recommended by Masons that are in their relative age group so it would seem to be our lodge is indeed 'getting younger'. The past two years we have surpassed the attrition rate and have added more members then we lost. We are so inundated with candidates that there is a waiting list until Feburary of 2009 to receive their Entered Apprentice Degree.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
Seems "The Fetch" was already a member here, but banned.

I started with some of your keywords in this latest post and did a few searches. Such gems as "Jewish Mafia," "Setianists", "Judaic Noahidists," etc. (along with "Fetch"), immediately brought me to Liberty Forum.

Terry. It appears as if you are here to control the flow of information and feed it all into a direction that takes away from the core of the problem, which makes you a part of the larger problem.

If you do a search on "Jewish Mafia", which I have just done, Fetch is nowhere in sight, and the topic is clearly covered by a whole range of authors, which I presume, based on your editorial prejudice, is probably rarely if ever covered in fairness on your so called "comprehensive" and "sophisticated" site.

Further, I did a search on Setianists.

Fetch is one of the few authors out there that touches this subject, so clearly I will have to presume that his knowledge and insights on this topic, like everything else he deals with, is vastly superior to some copy cat artist as you prove yourself to be.

Setianists deals directly with Lavey and hence is directly linked into the Martinists who are equally politically affiliated with the Noahidists, who are then fused to Likud and Israel. So again, if you are so clueless as to what is really being said and your tone is to deny the audience here a proper and valid reference as to what is being said, perhaps you should cease your gatekeeper trolling and just deal with the issues fairly.

This is a "deny ignorance site", which appears to be something you are not too happy about?

Further still, I did a search on "Judaic Noahidists", and there was absolutely nothing in reference to Fetch anywhere. So clearly you are being both dishonest and disingenuous.

So clearly you are lying when you said you did a search on these various terms and they all magically pointed to Fetch.

So can you please take your off topic attempts to derail what has become a rather insightful set of conversations and post them at your site?

Be sure to include the name "Dennis Fetcho", "The Illuminatus Observor", and so forth.

We can let you know if indeed you are able to deliver the hits, as it were, and hence your site has value.

For me - I have appreciated and enjoyed what has become stimulating conversation and insightful information from some of our Masonic friends here who too, I am sure, appreciate a thread initiated by someone quite versed in the Baconian Schools of Freemasonry, of which it is clear that you, in your eagerness to deny truth, prevent from being highlighted on your mass market shill site.

More to the point -

It's a perfect example of the utterly incorrect assumptions that some occultists of late propose, because they've been influenced by the likes of a Tsarion, among others. They take English words and go off into an occult wonderland of freestyle interpretation, and disregard (because they are not schooled in linguistics) the classic etymological origins of everyday words.

Clearly your reliance on "academia" is a source of tremendous humor.

Who died and made etymology a science beyond reproach? Hmmm?

"Rossetti comments at length upon the double and sometimes triple meanings which were placed by the secret schools upon apparently innocent and orthodox words and phrases."

Your etymologists seem rather quaint and childish. Fetch gets it.

In truth, many of these hidden meanings could go literally layers deep. Masons familiar with this complex system comment as to words having "a seventh" meaning, or the true core of meaning of the word, sometimes far removed from the profane usage as found in a dictionary. - Source, The Illuminatus Observor

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