100% proof the Qur'an is The Word of God????

of course its accurate all religious books are their written by scholars so I wouldnt expect them not to be. The allegories merely teach valuable life lessons like an after school special.




[edit on 13-8-2008 by tigpoppa]

'we' means God and his angels

second line

reply to post by Nammu

The Qur'an was a bastardized version of Judiasm/Christianity, and of course worship of the pagan moon-god whose name was Allah.

Muhammed was illiterate. All other prophets of YAHWEH were able to proved their words came from God, through the performance of miracles.

Muhammed couldn't make change.

The Qur'an was a residual collection of recitations, and at one time according to Muhammed, there were seven different versions.

Another time when asked which of the two versions Muhammed preferred, he answered.

And if anyone thinks these versions were anything even close to one another, then you should study a tiny bit deeper.

That's the problem with making it up as you go along to suit the moment of your greed, passion, or hatred.

The word of God?

No, the word of Allah. A pagan moon-god.

Originally posted by templar knight
Two things that worry me about the Qu'ran being the word of God.

1) Is your God, like the christian God omnipotent and omniscient i.e. can see everything that happens now and in the future. If this is so your God would have known that the words would be twisted by man for reason of war, killings etc - and hence must take some responsibility.

2) Also I have never understood the role of Angel Gabriel dictating the word of God to the prophet Mohammed. This suggests a demi-God, but where does a demi God live? What makes them different from a God? Can they make mistakes?

1. In the initial pages of the Holy Qu'ran, although it is in no specific order, just longest surah to shortest, Allah tells the story of creating adam and asking his angels and Ibis ( the original jinn, also known as satan) to bow down to his creation. Iblis refused due to jealousy, and was casted out of heaven. God stated that he will bestow a vicegerent/viceroy on earth, and the angels replied with shock saying, wouldnt that cause bloodshed? God replied, I know what ye know not....
Basically, God had a plan all along, and knew that Iblis the jinn/Satan would manipulate Adam and Eve out of Paradise to live on Earth, in a finite life, a test, and then be judged once they die, and be punished our rewarded for their actions.
God knew the jinn would have much power over the human race, and it even talks of ancient civilzations (that were far more advanced than us) that have been demolished by His Almighty power (only the believers survived anad started again) because they were so corrupt and did not recognize their creator...this is all stated in the Quran.
about the responsibility, this life and this earth is His creation, it is a test for our souls to see if we are worthy of Paradise. We get judged on how we treated our family, others, strangers, not material things...obviously
God is all merciful, forgiving, and all he wants is us humans to think about our creator, think about the beauty and joy of what he created for us to live here. This is why Muslims pray 5 times a day, they bow down to their creator everday of their lives, whatever sins they committed become washed, because God is all merciful, and we as humans should fear o ur creator...as children did we not fear our parents? I believe that to be a good analolgy because we are ALL God's children. There is an afterlife, and we will account for our actions on this plane of existence. But of course, God knows best, and we will all find out soon enough...

2. Angels are created from light, and they are supposed to be the perfect beings that are God slaves and exercise his will. They know his power, his might, his forgiving nature, and his wisdom. They know he is all-knowing, and here in every single instance of reality on earth. Gabriel, the angel, was merely the middleman in conveying Gods word. For no human can ever see God because he is not a transient being like us, he is infinite and this dimension is finite.


Also, there is no such thing as a Christian or a Muslim God, just different interpretations by way of language barriers to define the same symbol- Our Creator.
I really hope this helped to answer your questions, they were good ones.

reply to post by 123space


The scientific "facts" while cool.. are hardly reliable. Do you know how many different versions of the Quran I've seen? Many. I've been told the reason for these numerous translations is that it's forbidden to literally translate the Quran into another language.. so translaters Interpret rather than translate. ( I don't know this for a fact, but it's a logical answer.)

So, I don't exactly trust these at all.

Originally posted by dooper
The Qur'an was a bastardized version of Judiasm/Christianity, and of course worship of the pagan moon-god whose name was Allah.

Muhammed was illiterate. All other prophets of YAHWEH were able to proved their words came from God, through the performance of miracles.

I have yet to see these "Miracles"

Infact, no one has. It doesn't prove a thing. Chris Angel is more able to prove he's a prophet of God than Joseph Smith, Muhammad, Paul, Elijah, and any of the disciples.

Smoke and mirrors doesn't prove you are doing God's work. It just proves you can fool gullible people, which is what defines religion.

Such a confusing time to be a religious person isn't it? You have the really religious saying that their 100% in fact right and your wrong! Why? Why are we always right? Because a book says so? You don't need a book to find God unless you believe so. And what does it matter if it's a bible, koran, or even a abc book? So many people are trying to preach atheism nowadays or Christianity or some far out form of Buddhism. And how they know 100% it's right and your 100% wrong if you don't agree.

I believe in a God, or maybe it's gods? Who knows? Nobody here that's for sure. A lot of us would like deeper religious incite to guide us. But if you just live life you find something guiding you inside. If it's god or just a deep connection to this world I don't know. But it's there. I think this world's spirituality will be completely up heaved and rejuvenated in the next decade. That is when more answers of who we are and why were here may be answered.

I can appriciate your desire to prove validity in your religion through science (assuming of course Islam is your religion). But, I do not feel that science proves the Quran is 100% anything, if it were a handbook for scientific efforts why is that the "science" of the Quran is only discovered after the science of humans. Why doesn't it specifically give us something scientifically useful? From what I have read, the connection between science and Quran didn't even begin until "The Bible, the Qur'an and Science", by Dr. Maurice Bucaille, in 1979, who had his own agenda to complete. There are many passages that go against the science we know to be true, I will not post them out of respect and fear of inciting an arguement, but if you would like I can do so.

Qur'an Debunked:
www.faithfreedom.org...


[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by Brsn90


I'm with you really.

I don't know if there is or is not God(s).. But I go with what I can see.

And what I can see in this world as there is no evidence for a divine revelation, and there is no evidence for divine miracles or intervention.

Well, I've actually seen people with ears who could not hear, and others had eyes, but could not see.

There were lots of hidden Knowledge and scientific theories in the ancient times for example the Alexandra Library, all that knowledge was destroyed but could have made its way into the Qur'an. But since alot of history was not compatible with the Qur'an you know it would have been covered up burned and destroyed while claiming knowledge as its own its still traditional to do so amoungst the fundimentalists who pave the way for Islamic law and territory of land to wipe out history in its path.

I'm sticking to the Bible and the celestrial time clock of the stars and constellations refering to the Birth of the Leo sign, the messiah, the Lion from the tribe of Judah born from Virgo the Virgin Mary with the Libra the scales of Justice.

If you look at the Bible's intricate plan it's all there but needs searching and the holy spirit leads people to see the connections that even the prophets did not know of or could have known till things were complete.

If it's written in the stars and there are signs like the Star of Bethlehem then you know it's very Godly.

www.novareinna.com...

The Incarnate Son (Virgo - Virgin)...Isaiah 7:14
The Redeemer (Libra - Scales)...1 Corinthians 6:20
The Sufferer (Scorpio - Scorpion)...1 Corinthians 15:55-56
The Conqueror (Sagittarius - Archer)...Revelations 6:2
The Sacrifice (Capricorn - Goat)...Romans 3:25
The Living Water (Aquarius - Water-Bearer)...John 7:38
The Liberator (Pisces - Fishes)...Genesis 48:19; Mark 1:17
The Crowned Lamb (Aries - Ram)...Revelations 5:6
The Judge (Taurus - Bull)...John 5:22
The King (Gemini - Twins)...Romans 1:3
The Protector (Cancer - Crab)...Isaiah 4:5-6
The Victor (Leo - Lion)...Revelations 5:5
Text

The twelve major constellations of the Zodiac are referred to in the bible as the "Mazzaroth." The word "Zodiac" comes from the Greek zoad, which means "the way" or "the path." According to many Christian scholars, God depicted his story and his promise of salvation within the stars.
The saga begins with Virgo (a virgin) bringing forth a son. Libra (balance) follows, an indication that man does not possess the power to save himself. The price is deficient. A scorpion and an archer appear together, symbolizing the battle between Satan (Scorpio the Scorpion) and Jesus Christ (Sagittarius the Archer). The intent of Satan is to sting (and thereby kill) Christ in order to thwart God's plan of salvation. The archer has his bow drawn toward Satan and the half-man half-horse depicts the dual nature of Jesus Christ: God and man. Next, comes Capricorn, an animal which is part-goat and part-fish. The goat was often used in sacrificial ceremonies to cleanse sins on the day of atonement. Christ was, in effect, that perfect sacrifice, adopting the sins of the world. A water-bearer (Aquarius) is next to enter the arena, pouring out an endless supply of water. Within that water are the fish (Pisces) which personify Jesus Christ as one who died to save the human race. Pisces Australia (the southernmost fish) dwells in the flow. As the fish cannot survive outside the water, so this symbolism states that an individual is unable to survive outside the pouring of the Holy Spirit. Pisces is a twofold constellation, representative of both Jew and Gentile who will be bound to Satan until the return of Jesus Christ. Satan, of course, is engaged in constant battle with the Church. Early believers used the sign of Pisces to secretly identify themselves.

A ram (Aries) appears, depicting the reign of Jesus who will soon return, heralding the triumph of the Church over Satan. In the guise of a bull (Taurus), Christ will return to lead the charge and "gore" the evil before setting up his rule on earth. Gemini the Twins presents a picture of the newly-acquired dual role of the savior: the suffering servant and the righteous judge. A crab (Cancer) depicts a place of safety for those believers who will escape the Day of Judgment. In the form of a lion (Leo) will the victory of Christ be complete and the defeated Satan cast down. Thus in glorious triumph, does Leo step upon the head of Hydra the Serpent.

Text

[edit on 17-5-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by brightlight


Really? It has always been explained to me that the "we" is used in the royal form, not that it is actually plural.

OOhh I apologize you are right, I myself was misinformed. I got a bit confused about something. Sorry about that

reply to post by searching4truth