Howard Stern Show talks 9/11 truth (sort of)

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
The final maneuver attributed to flight 77 is (not the loop but the final descent after the VDOT antenna) is aeronautically impossible.

The plane would have broken up before it hit the building if the FDR altitude is even close to accurate and we know this for a fact.

Oh? Not to be rude, but I thought that was not accurate as PF911 Truth Co-Founder Rob Balsamo was shown his math to be incorrect.

The errors were pointed out on this thread started by you:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The errors were posted on JREF by a few people:

forums.randi.org...

NASA Scientist Ryan Mackey also pointed out the numerous errors here:

forums.randi.org...

As far as I know, Rob Balsamo has yet to correct his math.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Good Evening Craig!
I have to confess, you are an enigma of sorts. For reasons I can't quite figure out you really seem to believe planes hit the twin towers on 9-11 -- even after having investigated -- to the hilt -- the Penta-Con no-plane-crash event.

There isn't anymore evidence of real airplane crashes at the WTC's or Shanksville than at the Penta-Con -- save for crappy video footage from the Naudet lovers, err, brothers and other dubious sources. And hey, need I remind you, plane parts were found at the Penta-Con too!! Albeit we do have a few more photos from the WTC floating around. Of course they're always the same precious few, the rusty engine core, the sometimes dusty wheelwell and, of course, the image of the dude with the gas mask in overalls waltzing across piles of galvalume corrugated sheetmetal on some rooftop. Why this is convincing to you Craig, will alway remain one of life's great mysteries.

did they dump this engine off a truck and stage the scene?

It sure looks like it!

Plus if they faked it you'd think they would use the correct part. No?

Who said the 9-11 cabal was 'smart'? They were ruthless, not intelligent.

As I said I do not believe the original planes hit the towers so if the part doesn't match it is more evidence to me that it really came from the impact.

You seem to insist that something HAS to have hit the towers, why? Because you saw it on tee-vee?

I would hardly call the WTC burning gash "boring".

At the time, on the morning of 9-11, it was very boring. Compared to what real plane crash scenes look like.

Clearly the footage of the building itself would be the most compelling and the most repeated.
I would think that debris on the ground would be considered extremely "boring" compared to that.

Nothing would have been more newsworthy in our love for sensationalism than images of passengers still strapped in their seats. People are obsessed with seeing things crash. Many watch car races simply for that reason, waiting for a pile-up. Heck, there are videos for purchase showing nothing but race car accidents!

But lo and behold there IS footage of debris on the ground even though you said there was none.

Strictly speaking you are correct, there were plane parts. But in such small quantities, and unrelated to the flights in question, that -- for all practical purposes -- what was found amounts to nothing..

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods


There is no comparison between the WTC and Pentagon attacks Wiz.

One had thousands of attentive witnesses and was caught live on video by numerous media outlets and amateurs.

The other was a complete surprise and all the footage that did exist was deliberately covered up.

There is a reason for this.

I think if they had the technology to fake the plane impact real time in person AND on live tv that they would have used this technology in Arlington and there would be plenty of footage of the event just like in New York.

The perpetrators would want this footage to add to their propaganda campaign.

Clearly they did not use this unknown technology in Arlington which is why there was a cover up and why the witnesses prove the plane did not hit.

I think NPT was designed to make people who assert the plane did not hit the Pentagon look crazy.

This is why I typically do not engage in these discussions but I like you so I decided to give it a go.

But I'll leave it at this......I am not even close to convinced of NPT at WTC but I will reserve final judgement until someone does a witness analysis in New York on the level that we have in Arlington.

That would be an effort to contact all published reports of people who claim to have seen the plane impacts as well as an effort to find previously unpublished accounts and to provide their recorded first hand testimony as much as possible along with an analysis of their true POV etc.

But realize this about CIT....we are the ones who proved that their WAS a low flying passenger jet timed perfectly with the explosion in Arlington by launching an investigation on this level.

Before we came around most people in the movement liked to say there was no plane at all and that it was a missile.

Believe me....the good people of Arlington who were there that day know better and all this missile talk for all of these years made them think the truth movement was insane.

In other words the cointelpro worked like a charm.

I believe that NPT at WTC is just as harmful as the missile theory in Arlington.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods

But I'll leave it at this......I am not even close to convinced of NPT at WTC but I will reserve final judgement until someone does a witness analysis in New York on the level that we have in Arlington.

Well, you'll recall that Aldo admitted that you and he had not done anything approaching a witness analysis at the Pentagon. In fact, he made clear that you never even bothered to interview the several hundred key witnesses at the Pentagon.

It's helpful that you all have finally acknowledged that you never did a proper investigation. Look at all that energy and time you have wasted, Craig.

That would be an effort to contact all published reports of people who claim to have seen the plane impacts as well as an effort to find previously unpublished accounts and to provide their recorded first hand testimony as much as possible along with an analysis of their true POV etc.

We ALL know it is a tremendous effort for you to interview all of the witnesses at the Pentagon and that you spent the last 2 years trying to avoid it. But in order for there to be a true investigation, you're going to have to get down and do the dirty work.

I am glad to see Aldo has finally agreed and that you, Aldo, and Balsamo, will be going down to Washington to interview all of they key witnesses you now agree are important.

It will probably take you 2 - 3 months for you to gather that testimony if the three of you work hard enough.

When are you planning on starting, Craig?

WOW JUST WOW!!!
The CIT is AMAZING!
Lets not forget that a year ago Craig claimed on the Jeff Rense show that a remote piloted plane hit the Pentagon.
You have CIT's OWN WITNESSES claiming the plane hit the Pentagon, charges that DNA at the Pentagon WAS PLANTED and oooh again these claims are made WITHOUT EVIDENCE.
Now Craig and the CIT are YET AGAIN making MORE CLAIMS WITHOUT EVIDENCE!!!
Preplanted explosives at the Pentagon!!!
So Craig when will the CIT be presenting E V I D E N C E of these explosives?

You should apologize to Mike Walter.
This guy is a hero and the things you have said about him are disgusting.
This guy has been put himself in harms way by covering war while the CIT sits behind their computers posting for hours on internet forums instead of bringing their evidence to the courts like promised for over a year.
www.dartcenter.org...

Walter contributed to two books about the terrorist attacks: Covering Catastrophe and Broadcasting through Crisis. The many stories he has covered during his career include relief missions in Somalia and Russia, the execution of Timothy McVeigh, and the Northridge Earthquake in Southern California.

This is a fantastic thread...really, as a passive observer yet one very interested in all topics mentioned here ,in this thread specifically, I respectfully ask that the main parties involved continue this discussion...Wiz and Craig , the Throat Yogi and yes Bobert in all your chest pounding glory...I believe we are actually getting somewhere here and would love to see this enlightened, intelligent and obviously well informed group see it to the best of its conclusion...sincerely.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

I think NPT was designed to make people who assert the plane did not hit the Pentagon look crazy.

......I am not even close to convinced of NPT at WTC but I will reserve final judgement until someone does a witness analysis in New York on the level that we have in Arlington.

But realize this about CIT....we are the ones who proved that their WAS a low flying passenger jet timed perfectly with the explosion in Arlington by launching an investigation on this level.

Before we came around most people in the movement liked to say there was no plane at all and that it was a missile.

Believe me....the good people of Arlington who were there that day know better and all this missile talk for all of these years made them think the truth movement was insane.

In other words the cointelpro worked like a charm.

I believe that NPT at WTC is just as harmful as the missile theory in Arlington.

It has been obvious to some of us for years that NPT and 'missile hit the Pentagon' were almost certainly co-intelpro disseminated with the specific intention of marginalizing the 'Truth Movement' and making them appear a bunch of deluded, ranting zealots who no-one should take seriously. It has been a very successful operation, IMHO. The mud has stuck, the damage is done.

Respect to the onsite field investigation you guys are doing, Craig. It's the only way. I know how hard and time consuming it can be to track down eyewitnesses, especially years after an event.

Originally posted by skinnyblaze
This is a fantastic thread...really, as a passive observer yet one very interested in all topics mentioned here ,in this thread specifically, I respectfully ask that the main parties involved continue this discussion...Wiz and Craig , the Throat Yogi and yes Bobert in all your chest pounding glory...I believe we are actually getting somewhere here and would love to see this enlightened, intelligent and obviously well informed group see it to the best of its conclusion...sincerely.

Craig and Aldo are busying themselves getting ready to redo their CIT investigation in Washington now that Aldo has admitted they never bothered to interview any of the hundreds of key witnesses.

I think they will need considerable time to gather those statements.

Originally posted by bovarcher

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
It has been obvious to some of us for years that NPT and 'missile hit the Pentagon' were almost certainly co-intelpro disseminated with the specific intention of marginalizing the 'Truth Movement' and making them appear a bunch of deluded, ranting zealots who no-one should take seriously. It has been a very successful operation, IMHO. The mud has stuck, the damage is done.

Whether Craig realizes this or not, he is by definition, 25% a no-planer!

Out of the four 9-11 flights he definitively believes that no plane crashed at the Penta-Con.
Which means he's 25% part also one of the 'deluded, ranting zealots'. Not a full-breed, 100% wacko hardcore no-planer like myself, but still a quarter NPT ain't half bad.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods


No Wiz.

That's my point.

The missile theory was bunk.

There was a plane.

We proved the NPT in Arlington FALSE.

They did not need to use any unknown or exotic weaponry of any kind in Arlington.

There is no comparison between the Pentagon and WTC attacks.

I have explained this many times.

This was a complex operation of deception and you can't automatically apply aspects from one part to the other.

We base our conclusions solely on evidence proving the plane was on the north side of the station and obviously this evidence has nothing to do with the WTC.

It appears Craig has again backtracked and isn't going to Washington with Aldo and Rob Balsamo after all to do a real investigation.

Pity.

reply to post by Wizard_In_The_Woods



Wizard, it's not about individuals. It's about collective public perception of the 9/11 'Truth Movement.'

I'll tell you a short story which illustrates the point. I was recently at a conference in Gaithersburg, talking to a guy over lunch. Well as it happens his sister works in DC and on the morning of 9/11 she was in an SUV with her boss travelling past Arlington Cemetery and they saw the plane. What she (reportedly) saw was a 2-engined passenger jet with American Airlines logo screaming over the highway, followed by a large explosion at The Pentagon. They did not actually see the impact, as it was at ground level and below the line of sight, but obviously they connected the airliner roaring over the road with the impact explosion. At the time, they had heard of some incident in NY involving the WTC on a radio bulletin but no details, and at that early stage no indication it might be a deliberate act. If you recall, for the first 15 minutes the first WTC impact was reported by the MSM as a probable accidental collision by an airliner.

Now the point is this. This guy's sister saw 'the plane' - a real aircraft, as all the witnesses reported. So their friends and extended families therefore KNOW there was a real aircraft, as they know and trust someone who SAW IT.

Then 9/11 Truthers, WHO WERE NOT EVEN THERE ON THE DAY, publicly rant on that there were 'no planes' involved on 9/11.

How does this make the 'Truth Movement' as a whole look in popular perception? Think about it.

If 9/11 was an inside job, then the perps - whoever they may be - are going to love no-planers for obvious reasons, and be delighted that these crazy ideas so obviously contradicted by actual witnesses are disseminated so vocally. You're playing their game. You bring the 'Truth Movement' into disrepute and marginalize its advocates to the fringe.

Get it?

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Craig

Sorry if I missed this, but have you interviewed any of the fire and rescue crews who dug out the bodies and cleaned up the mess at The Pentagon?

If so, with what result?

Originally posted by bovarcher
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

 

Craig

Sorry if I missed this, but have you interviewed any of the fire and rescue crews who dug out the bodies and cleaned up the mess at The Pentagon?

If so, with what result?

You didn't miss it. Craig and Aldo never interviewed them. Aldo finally admitted it which is why Aldo is headed back to Washington to do a proper investigation.

There are hundreds of eyewitnesses CIT never interviewed.

Craig was going too, but regressed back into denial that he has to interview hundreds of witnesses.

Wow...Craig...Dude....

I can't believe you posted that audio and actually wanted people to hear it.
I give you a lot of credit for your passion, and commitment and all that crap, and for not caring what people think but, man.....it didn't sound so good.

I mean this in the most respectful and friendly way... but it almost seems like you just want attention.

Love the CIT website!

reply to post by bovarcher


Yes.

But for the record we have never doubted for a second that the fire and rescue crews dug out the bodies and cleaned up the mess at the Pentagon.

We believe them 100%.

Why wouldn't we?

However we do have an interview with a fire captain who was part of the efforts who has been on 5 plane crashes in his career and doesn't believe for a second that the plane hit the building.

The interview will be released in the The PentaCon Researcher's Edition.

We also have received a note of support from a decorated hero/recovery worker who saved many lives on that day and was all throughout the scene.



He is one of the guys in this image:



But of course neither of these guys prove anything by questioning the official story nor do any of the other recovery workers prove anything by believing it.

The only people who could possibly refute the evidence we present proving the plane came from east of the river and flew north of the former citgo gas station would have to be witnesses to the plane.

None of them seem to disagree with our findings.

Of course I would think that most logical critical thinkers would understand this pretty easily but no matter how many times I explain it to jthomas he continues to harass us with the same question over and over anyway like a robot with zero comprehension skills.

Hopefully this response helped clear it up for you.







[edit on 28-5-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]

[edit on 28-5-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]

Originally posted by darkbluesky
Wow...Craig...Dude....

I can't believe you posted that audio and actually wanted people to hear it.
I give you a lot of credit for your passion, and commitment and all that crap, and for not caring what people think but, man.....it didn't sound so good.

Really?

I think the positive response in this thread and the overwhelmingly positive emails we got from Stern fans tells me otherwise but I'll file your minority dissenting opinion along with TheBobert's.

I mean this in the most respectful and friendly way... but it almost seems like you just want attention.

Love the CIT website!

Glad to hear you love the site!

Yes you are correct that we want lots of attention to the conclusive evidence we present proving 9/11 was an inside job.

Thanks for the support and spread the word!


[edit on 28-5-2008 by Craig Ranke CIT]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

But for the record we have never doubted for a second that the fire and rescue crews dug out the bodies and cleaned up the mess at the Pentagon.

We believe them 100%.

Why wouldn't we?

However we do have an interview with a fire captain who was part of the efforts who has been on 7 plane crashes in his career and doesn't believe for a second that the plane hit the building.

The interview will be released in the The PentaCon Researcher's Edition....

The only people who could possibly refute the evidence we present proving the plane came from east of the river and flew north of the former citgo gas station would have to be witnesses to the plane.

None of them seem to disagree with our findings.

Of course I would think that most logical critical thinkers would understand this but apparently you and jthomas are having some trouble

How the heck do you come to that conclusion from what I posted? All I did was ask a simple question, because I was interested in finding out what you had done or were planning to do about the rescue crews' testimonies.

Of course I have no trouble understanding your opinion about the plane's flight path. Why would I? I can't speak for jtt but from what he posted it's not easy to see how you could draw the conclusion you do about his 'critical thinking' either.

My question was about whether you interviewed any of the fire and rescue crews. Their collective and individual testimonies would be vital to understanding what happened, being ordinary joes from all over VA & MD called in to deal with the emergency and having no preconcieved ideas about what they would have to deal with whan they got inside the building. You answered that to some degree, thanks. Of course, the more witnesses are interviewed the more likely an accurate picture will emerge.

Do you intend to publish or post the transcripts of any or all of these interviews?

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT


Craig, you seem to have edited your post after I responded to it. You can please selectively disregard those comments in my post which refer to your pre-edited version.

I support what you're doing and how you're doing it by the way.

Cheers.