**Wake Up People** We Are Being Iraq'd All Over Again!

Ok, this is going to get out of hand here soon.

We are getting Iraq'd all over again with our idiot of a leader wanting us to do the same thing we did with Iraq to Iran, preemptive war. Bush is using the same crap he did which brought us into this illegal war in the first place, and people are falling for it all over again.

Here is an excellent thread that died much too quickly regarding the propaganda in the media:

Propaganda and the Media

I highly suggest you visit it, as it goes into the crap we are fed everyday that will help them start a NEW ILLEGAL war.

Do you know WHY this war is illegal in the first place?

First, here's another thread you should visit: The War in Iraq Should be Illegal

Also:

And The World's Most Authoritative Answer Is ... Among the world's foremost experts in the field of international law, the overwhelming jurisprudential consensus is that the Anglo-American invasion, conquest, and occupation of Iraq constitute three phases of one illegal war of aggression. [3]

Moreover, these experts in the international law of war deem both preventive wars and preemptive strikes to be euphemistic subcategories of outlawed wars of aggression.

SRC: www.informationclearinghouse.info...

We are being fed BS and lies. Listen to the BS we're being fed on why we need to go into Iran:



Bush a couple of days ago explaining that we need to keep Iran from finding out how to enrich uranium, even though Iran mastered it 2 years ago!

Tuesday, 11 April 2006

Iran's president says his nation has successfully produced the enriched uranium needed to make nuclear fuel.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Iran had joined the nations with "nuclear technology" but again insisted it did not want nuclear weapons.

SRC: news.bbc.co.uk...

And he's telling people this is why we need to go in.

We are getting ready to make the same mistakes all over again in an act of aggression due to a preemptive strike. The EXACT same thing we did with Iraq.

In a recent thread I created entitled Wow. Awe-Inspiring Speech. Fear is the Greatest Impediment to the Achievement of Peace, a college student stands up and gives one hell of a speech.

She says one hell of a line which I can definitely agree with, especially today:

Fear is the Greatest Impediment to the Achievement of Peace









[edit on 5/20/2008 by bigbert81]

It's not down to the people. They ceased to have a say a long time ago; the moment they allowed the TV to dictate to them what to believe.

If the US government wants a war with Iran, they'll have one. They just need to lie enough to get it off the ground, then there's no turning back.

reply to post by dave420


Yep, and the lies they spew will only help to silence the people.

We should not tolerate this crap anymore, nor the ignorant person running it all.

Bush has either got to be the biggest liar, or the most uninformed president in history.

1 - The war in Iraq isn't illegal.
2 - Bush doesn't have enough time to go to war with Iran unless Iran strikes first.

Don't worry about Iran until the next POTUS takes over.
That should be Obama. Then you should be VERY worried.
His inexperience will mirror that of JFK and the Bay of Pigs.

Sleep well Berti.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Funny Fannie, I've posted sources talking about EXPERTS saying the war is illegal, and showing why, but you continue to keep coming on here just saying that it's legal, without anything to back up your claim.

It's illegal. Read the excerpt again, or click the link.

Denial will get you nowhere.

[edit on 5/20/2008 by bigbert81]

You know what, here, I'll save you the trouble of going back and forth, it's already been done for us.

www.archive.org...

The terms 'legal' and 'illegal' are out of context with regards to a war. A war is outside the bounds of law. But that's not why I'm replying...

We will go to war with Iran. It will be for one reason. That reason is not about terror, or physical threats, not even about Israel. The reason is our economy demands it.

Iran has committed the unforgivable sin: they have depegged their oil from our dollar. That's it, the whole reason we have to go to war. Our dollar is backed by foreign oil, and removal of that backing would collapse the fortunes of our most powerful and wealthy families. This cannot be allowed to happen.

This is why Bush was pressed into service as the President. It is his destiny. Ours is to sit back and whimper like scared children while our world comes crashing down around us.

Mine is to watch and shake my head in shame. May our children forgive us.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by FlyersFan
1 - The war in Iraq isn't illegal.
2 - Bush doesn't have enough time to go to war with Iran unless Iran strikes first.

Don't worry about Iran until the next POTUS takes over.
That should be Obama. Then you should be VERY worried.
His inexperience will mirror that of JFK and the Bay of Pigs.

Sleep well Berti.

1. You can't just say it isn't illegal, without backing it up. There are many figures in the political community both at home and abroad who consider the war in Iraq illegal. In fact, there are threads on this site in which vets of the Iraq war attest to some of the atrocities we've committed over there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

2. Of the three prominent candidates (if you still consider Hillary in the race), Obama is by far the least war-mongering of them all. He is clearly the only one trying to avoid a war with Iran. If McCain gets in it's inevitable. Hillary will also likely cave into the propaganda and support the war much like she did with Iraq. I would say Obama only has a 50% chance of throwing us into war, and if he does, it will only prove that he is just another lapdog to the rich and powerful.

However, I truly believe he's our best shot at avoiding war altogether, because he's the only one willing to resort to non-military means of diplomacy.

Originally posted by drwizardphd


1. You can't just say it isn't illegal, without backing it up.

Why not? People are always saying that the war is illegal without "anything backing it up."

The US had plenty of reason to invade Iraq based on the UN sanctions from the Gulf War.

Even if all our objective were not met, deposing Saddam based on his flouting UN sanctions was a smart thing to do and in the long run it will pay off for us in the war on teror and the rest of the Middle East, even if some are loathe to admit it.

reply to post by GradyPhilpott


As you can see, I have backed it up.

I've even provided a debate about the issue by 2 people who know what they are doing.

And, I've had this debate with FF before, and her only defense used over and over again, is to just say that it's legal, without EVER backing it up.

Please read the excerpt above, in it you will see the what is considered 'The world's most authoritative answer'. It's illegal because it falls under the category of a war of aggression.

Grady, from what I've seen, you are a smart guy, so do you think it's ok to just use this preemptive tactic to attack virtually anyone we want? For that reason, it is considered illegal.

I disagree with the OP. We've been hearing the "US is going to war with Iran next month" for the last 2 + years and nothing has happened. If anything the Bush Admin is dragging their feet on doing to Iran. Nothing is going to happen.

reply to post by princeofpeace


The only reason the Bush Admin. didn't go into Iran during his 8 year reign is because they couldn't. There simply aren't enough reserve troops to move into another front.

As long as we continue our support of Israel, our work in the middle east will never be done. Iran is more of a threat than Iraq ever was to world security, simply because they actually are trying to develop nuclear technology, regardless of whether or not they admit they're trying to develop weapons. The folks in charge will come up with a million and one more reasons for us to go over there, and sure enough they'll pull it off.

At this point, it will either take some radical policy changes or a stroke of dumb luck to avoid armed conflicts in Iran.

reply to post by drwizardphd


They stopped their nuclear program in '03. There is just speculation that they might have restarted it, but they should still be nowhere near the point where we should feel we need to bring a military action upon them.

reply to post by bigbert81


I think I should put that a different way. I'm not assuming Iran is a threat to world security, it's just easier to swing it that way because of their supposed nuclear developments. Propagandists will use this to sensationalize the American population against Iran in a similar way 9/11 was used on Iraq.

I'm waiting for the next count - instead of the 900+ times that iraq and wmd's were mentioned, we'll see how many times iran and nuclear weapons are mentioned.

In talking about iran and nuclear weapons, bush openly admitted that he had ignored his own intelligence agencies NIE, because it didn't say what he wanted it to say.

That, to me, looks like the mark of a man determined to go to war.

Let me repeat - over a dozen intelligence agencies produced a Natioonal Intelligence Estimate, and Bush ignored it, because he didn't agree with it!

He said "I defended our intelligence services, but made it clear that they're an independent agency; that they come to conclusions separate from what I may or may not want,"
Thread

In his own words, he is ignoring what his intel people are telling him, because it's not what he wants to hear.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
reply to post by princeofpeace

 

The only reason the Bush Admin. didn't go into Iran during his 8 year reign is because they couldn't. There simply aren't enough reserve troops to move into another front.

As long as we continue our support of Israel, our work in the middle east will never be done. Iran is more of a threat than Iraq ever was to world security, simply because they actually are trying to develop nuclear technology, regardless of whether or not they admit they're trying to develop weapons. The folks in charge will come up with a million and one more reasons for us to go over there, and sure enough they'll pull it off.

At this point, it will either take some radical policy changes or a stroke of dumb luck to avoid armed conflicts in Iran.

Not true. No one is talking regime change with Iran which means it would be a totally different battle than with Iraq. If the US wants to dismantle Irans military machine and nuclear infrastructure it can do so without having to put an occupying force on the ground. I dont understand why folks keep equating a war with Iran with the war in Iraq.

reply to post by budski


Yes, Bush is an idiot.

This recent interview with him just goes to show how either uninformed he is about THIS now, or that he's lying again. He's telling everybody we need to keep Iran from learning how to make uranium enriched soil, even though they've been doing it for 2 years now.

Nah man aint no attack happenin' on Iran. Not now anyway. Maybe they wanted to but they missed the opportunity. The administration has been dragging their feel and the wussies that are going to be elected into office wont do anything about Iran either.