India 2nd largest seller of carbon credits globally,China No.1

reply to post by RabbitChaser


Last time I checked, this global warming issue is being recognized in the whole world and not only China. There are conspiracy theorists worldwide trying to deny this global warming theory though. I'm still indifferent what to believe, I tend to the idea that oil companies are paying millions to spread disinformation to support 'scientific' researches dedicated in debunking the global warming theory, so the conspiracy theorists have something extra to work up their blood pressure. But this is still not conclusive in my humble tiny brains.

"Seems India and China are indeed superior to USA
related:
Ranking Consumers By Environmental Behavior: India, Brazil Top Index; United States Ranks Last "


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Have you ever been to any of these countries??? India and Brazil are CRAPHOLES.

Carbon credits are a scam but hey, why let a little research get in the way of your USA bashing.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Points taken, but when we've all been lied to our whole lives... how the hell is any remotely intelligent person expected to believe anything 'they' say? If GW is true, they've lost all credibility thru decades+ of lies. I've seen stats in favor of GW and stats debunking GW... and I know how dumb 'man' is as a whole. We know nothing.

Carbon "credits" are a world class snowjob . How dare anyone claim to use their carbon "credits" to offset a very real issue like water and air pollution. Smoke and mirrors. It is a con job that Gore and the others try to use while flying around in their jets giving speeches about how I shouldn't drive my car anymore. The US is a polluter, but the US is working on many levels to change/minimize it. And having somebody from India or China or the UK jumping down our throat for this fake "credit" scam is he pot calling the ketle black.

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
I'm still indifferent what to believe, I tend to the idea that oil companies are paying millions to spread disinformation to support 'scientific' researches dedicated in debunking the global warming theory, so the conspiracy theorists have something extra to work up their blood pressure. But this is still not conclusive in my humble tiny brains.

You should know that a favorite tactic of global warming proponents is to accuse dissenting scientists of being financed by the energy companies. Many times this is false.

You should also know that many global warming proponents enjoy the funding of governments that have much to gain from the increased carbon taxes and regulatory powers. Heck the global warming bureaucracy created becomes a large enough interest group that is is able to fund global warming proponents via tax dollars.

reply to post by RabbitChaser


As a bhuddist I am also probably one of the first one to say that Man is nothing in our Universe. Untill the day we escape the endless circle of karma, one will always continue seeking for truth. But there is eventually no ultimate truth, just the truth satisfying your own feelings and soul.

However, it is our own responsibility to use our own brains, our own heart, our own soul to screen every single piece of information. Don't let information run you, be the one in control. Eventually for your own satisfaction simply choose the version of truth that you will feel best with and can rest your soul...

reply to post by wutone


Indeed, and the carbon credit smell like a way to self-enrich certain shareholders instead of really helping the nature. However we should ask for accountability, if this organization is transparant enough and the paid carbon credit really turn out into a newly created forest somewhere in China to replace many de-forested wasteland, which otherwise would have been stolen to build industries on it, then well, I might be willing to "brain-wash" myself for it.

As for the disinformation rhetoric, why I would rather tend to believe the evil oil companies version, is mainly because I simply do not trust these profit-rich record billions earning enterprises. I have a best friend who is in the field of chemistry, one person I would trust my life with. He decided to stay in Holland despite the many years of pursuing to come back to China. Anyhow, the case is that he is in an industry and have a certain network that knows enough to believe the oil companies are probably one of the most dirtiest of the world. And I am now talking about a chemist with a post-graduation in the chemistry industry in a country where Shell has her headquarter, go figure.

One thing I want to share here, is that either the global warming or climate change is manmade or not. I could care less actually. I only observe and see on a daily base that our world is being destroyed by man. You take a inland flight of two hours, and you might see close to 1 hour how disturbing the country has become with all these nature being replaced for metropoles, infrastructure and other unnatural constructions. At night flying gives you a even creepier feeling. I personally believe we have lost all balances with mother Earth.

Originally posted by CaptGizmo
reply to post by manson_322

 

The jury is still out on what is causing global warming....and I am on the fence with the people that beleive we are experiencing a cyclical thing here.How do you explain the other planets in the solar system all experiencing global warming as well at the same time. I highly doubt anyones driving a SUV or any of us (blood thirsty evil war mongering sadistic hate our children and the rest of the world Americans) iare causing, say the planet Neptune to be experiencing it's global warming.Seriously
look into it.



[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

and i would rather take evidence by scientific research that West is responsible for Global warming ...

burdenman posted:

No, they simply flex their military muscles by crushing their own citizens and/or claiming otherwise independent nations as part of the PRC. Let's face a fact here, Tienemen Square made Kent State look like a Girl Scout cookie sale, and if it wasn't for the simple fact that the UK would almost instantly climb right up China's ass alongside the US and probably Australia, China would have absorbed, through force, Taiwan and Vietnam just like they did Tibet long ago.

and USA murdered millions of native americans and committed crimes like slavery , genocide ,corporate looting etc..

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Selling carbon credits???

What a bunch of BS. This must be the largest scam ever to show its ugly face upon the Earth. Are these people serious?
The whole idea is totally ludicrous especially since global warming is a sham.

wheres the proof that global warming is a sham , many MSM sources and scientists say global warming is for real ....

[edit on 20-5-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 20-5-2008 by manson_322]

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Long Lance

 

fact, is fact, China is till a lesser polluter and unlike USA it does not attack poor defenceless nations

do you wish to debate politics or environmental impact?!

if you intend to reduce pollution to (officially disclosed) CO2 emissions, then i'm done here, because such things as toxins are much more important than your perceived 'carbon crisis'.

unlike the effects of the oh so evil carbon dioxide, toxicity can be verified experimentally without resorting to opaque, undisclosed computer models, esoteric predictions and the use of grammies, oscars and nobel prizes for purposes of blunt PR. or, if all goes wrong, cooking data...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He's all over the board ...when pushed into a corner or some of his points are called into question ...he changes the subject...it is rather amusing at times.He hates the USA so much that he gets blinded by other forms of information other than the propagandized anti USA news he reads.

Can't really blame him though....look at how many people here in this country are brainwashed into hating Muslims now.Many of them don't even take into account that 9-11 and all these suicide terrorist are simply radicals and have high jacked the Muslim religion.Same could be said about the neo-cons and radical Christians...they have high jacked Christianity...same with the Zionists and judaism.All of his threads and posts are filled with venomous hate filled tripe about the USA and many times about the average citizen.He is miss guided i think.

On second thought, the U.S. has done more to combat global warming in the last 28 years than any other country! How can this be you say? Don't other countries have a lot more renewables and drive smaller cars? It doesn't matter! Because the U.S. has shut down and outsourced so many factories that it's irrelevant ! If the "NWO" really did know ahead of time about the "sham" known as global warming, they sure had a genius plan for America.

Originally posted by Long Lance

Originally posted by manson_322
reply to post by Long Lance

 

fact, is fact, China is till a lesser polluter and unlike USA it does not attack poor defenceless nations

do you wish to debate politics or environmental impact?!

if you intend to reduce pollution to (officially disclosed) CO2 emissions, then i'm done here, because such things as toxins are much more important than your perceived 'carbon crisis'.

unlike the effects of the oh so evil carbon dioxide, toxicity can be verified experimentally without resorting to opaque, undisclosed computer models, esoteric predictions and the use of grammies, oscars and nobel prizes

for purposes of blunt PR. or, if all goes wrong, cooking data...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

yawn, on the basis of computer models and predictions scientists have understood a lot of quantum physics, mechanics, nanotech , so what gibberish are you talking about ???

reply to post by manson_322


"fact, is fact, China is till a lesser polluter and unlike USA it does not attack poor defenceless nations"



Oh yes your friend the Chinese....wow they are just a shining example to the rest of the world of what humanitarianism is; and they have treated their neighbors so well look here Manson for history of China.

acc6.its.brooklyn.cuny.edu...

and whats this here....oh my an environmental catastrophe in China....say it is'nt so: www.sciam.com...

and while we are at it might as well show a little of how India is so understanding of other religions:

www.christiantoday.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

lets read a part from the wikipedia.org
Along with domestic organizations, international human rights organizations such as Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch publish reports [6][7] bringing embarrassing attention to acts of religious violence in India.

The point is an I have said this before. Before you go blasting the USA or for that matter anyone else...take a look in your own back yard first.

[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

Originally posted by manson_322

yawn, on the basis of computer models and predictions scientists have understood a lot of quantum physics, mechanics, nanotech , so what gibberish are you talking about ???

QF took off in the first half of the 20th century.

must have been using the ever elusive IBM 5100 snatched by John Titor

which commandment are you currently following? the 13th?

though shalt accuse in return

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by manson_322


"burdenman" LOL! Nice job there.

Reread where you said this:

fact, is fact, China is till a lesser polluter and unlike USA it does not attack poor defenceless nations

and notice that nowhere in my reply did I state that the US is all rainbows and farts where human rights historically has been concerned. What I'd like to know is what the hell the USA's history of killing indians, enslaving blacks, and hating on the Irish have to do with the fact that China has an equally piss poor recent history as the US's distant history where abuses are concerned.

Your arguments are flimsy at best and when they blow down you scramble like cockroaches when you flick on the light in a slum's kitchen. It would sure be nice to see you just once take someone's counterpoint which ethers your original point and actually attempt to debate it. It's damned funny that for all their supposed (read: made-up) strides against pollution and towards global harmony and peace that folks like you applaud India and China for, neither nation seems to be capable of providing even a handfull of supporters who know what they're talking about enough to actually formulate a defensible argument on an internet forum board against the supposedly "dumb" Americans.

So let's try this again. Without rehashing how we Americans drive SUVs, fart without having a carbon filter jammed down the back of our britches, leave lights on in rooms we just walked out of, and occassionally pour the contents of our family meth lab down the city's storm sewer system, do you have any comment on the facts that I and others have posted clearly showing that both China and India have vast concentrated pockets of polluters which, at least according to the scientists quoted in said articles, are actually doing more harm to the planet than anything the USA is currently doing? Do purchased carbon credits really mean squat when one of the main problems are the vast quantities of heavy metals both China and India are dumping in their countries? Also, just for those of us who actually like to fact check, I seem to be struggling to find any of this

...evidence by scientific research that West is responsible for Global warming ...

could you please provide a source for this scientific research?

I also noticed you mentioned Brazil as a paragon of environmentalism. Is that assessment taken with or without consideration of the perpetual deforestation the Brazillians are enacting on the Amazon rain forest? I only ask because we've kinda been told for quite some time now that deforestation is even worse than actually emitting vast amounts of carbon, since a tree can remove a phenominal amount of carbon from the air, filtering it continuously throughout the plant's life span. Once again, since the US basically protects her remaining forests, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you ignored the fact that we also have a growing carbon removal capacity vs the shrinking capacity of Brazil with every tree they clear cut vs every one we plant (and believe me, we plant a lot of them.)

I also am interested to hear your take on the contribution of livestock generated methane gases, which have been cited as a major contributor to increasing greenhouse gases. www.un.org... This interests me because there are an estimated 1.3 billion head of cattle in the world today. en.wikipedia.org... I see something incredible here which you clearly were unaware of, or else I'm almost certain your personal integrity and dedication to factuality would have forced you to at least mention it in your statements about India, China, and Brazil vs the West's responsibillity for greenhouse gas emissions. What I am seeing is this...

The world cattle population is estimated to be about 1.3 billion head. India is the nation with the largest number of cattle, about 400 million, followed by Brazil and China, with about 150 million each, and the United States, with about 100 million. Africa has about 200 million head of cattle, many of which are herded in traditional ways and serve partly as tokens of their owner's wealth. Europe has about 130 million head of cattle

Now, let's take Europe and the United States and combine them into one giant monolith known as THE WEST! THE WEST is, according to this sourced to a print edition of Cattle Today, has roughly 230 million head of cattle. Make no mistake, that's alot of beef. However, China, India, and Brazil more than triple that figure with a combined 700 million head! In fact, over half the cattle walking the Earth today are from those nations. Now, I know what your next point will be... "But the US is still to blame because they import beef from those countries!" Wrong again, America does import beef, (they also export about a million tons a year), but they import it from Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. So you might want to edit your statement to say "The West is the greatest polluter... if you take cow farts, deforestation, and uh, oh yeah, overall polution output and remove them from the equation!" In other words, what your original statement boils down to is that if you don't consider other nation's pollutions, America is the world's largest polluter.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


As I've never visited China, I have no personal experience with any of the places listed. I would assume there was a checklist of criteria that had to be met to count an area amongst the most polluted. Personally I question why such places as 3 Mile Island and Chernobyl aren't automatically included on any list of this nature, but I guess they weren't considering radiation for their criteria.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


well, fact is fact , USa is world's worst polluter ....

In terms of total carbon emission in a country, the US was named as the most polluting nation with 2.8 billion tons of emissions, followed by China (2.7 billion) and Russia (661 million) at No.2 and No.3 respectively. India is at No.4 with 583 million tons, while Japan occupied the fifth rank with 400 million tons.
in.ibtimes.com...

well, India and China combined have a population of 2.5 billion , while USA with ten times less population , still pollutes more ...

The USA is the world's biggest polluter

The worlds largest polluter, America has recently not backed pollution treaties to reduce car emissions or petrol consumption. The US alone accounted for 36.1% of worldwide greenhouse emissions in 1990 [BBC].

"The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. By comparison, Britain emits 3% - about the same as India which has 15 times as many people"

BBC: The US and climate change

Many environmentalists understand that developing countries do not have the technology or means to use the most modern or environmentally friendly industrial equipment. But when such a rich country as the USA fails to take responsibility for its own pollution it really annoys a lot of people worldwide. I have created this essay just to concentrate on the USA and President Bush's effect on the Kyoto Protocol because I receive so many emails from people expressing a hatred of the USA because of these issues.
www.vexen.co.uk...

President Bush & Why doesn't the USA support it?

The US refused to sign the treaty, arguing that its economic interests would be threatened [BBC]. The US also opposed the Bonn refinement of Kyoto because of the cost to US business of Kyoto's prescriptions on the reduction of environmentally harmful emissions which contribute to climate change.

"Under the Protocol, the U.S. is supposed to cut its greenhouse gas emissions by seven percent. With four percent of the world's population, the country accounts for about 25 percent of the Earth's greenhouse gas emissions.

European Environment Commissioner Margot Wallström says 'But this ignorant, short sighted and selfish politician, long since firmly jammed into the pockets of the oil lobby, clearly couldn't care less. The talks in Bonn in July must now concentrate on world action independent of the U.S.' "

Lycos News

WASHINGTON, DC, March 28, 2001 (ENS) )
US pulls out of Kyoto Protocol

"George W Bush has ... walked away from his international obligations, tearing up international treaties like the Kyoto Protocol and ABM treaty, which, however imperfect, have helped bring peace and environmental protection. The least we can say is that he has embarked on a dangerous journey. Why?

The answer is corporate payback. This has been the defining trait of President Bush's administration. His election was a straightforward capitalist venture for the energy corporations. Oil, gas, coal and nuclear companies are the power behind Bush; together, they donated more than $50 million dollars to put him in the White House. As soon as he was elected, it was payback time and Bush declared the Kyoto Protocol on reducing carbon-dioxide emissions dead and buried.

The message was: 'US corporations have the right to pollute the entire planet. The people and the environment don't matter.'"
www.vexen.co.uk...

as you can see evidence why USA refuses to sign kyoto protocol ...

per capita USA is the biggest polluter (when compared to India and China)


The USA is the world's biggest polluter
The worlds largest polluter, America has recently not backed pollution treaties to reduce car emissions or petrol consumption. The US alone accounted for 36.1% of worldwide greenhouse emissions in 1990 [BBC].

"The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. By comparison, Britain emits 3% - about the same as India which has 15 times as many people"
BBC: The US and climate change

Many environmentalists understand that developing countries do not have the technology or means to use the most modern or environmentally friendly industrial equipment. But when such a rich country as the USA fails to take responsibility for its own pollution it really annoys a lot of people worldwide. I have created this essay just to concentrate on the USA and President Bush's effect on the Kyoto Protocol because I receive so many emails from people expressing a hatred of the USA because of these issues.

Carbon Dioxide Emissions of the three biggest polluters: (BBC Display of this information)
The USA EU China Total
Population of world: 4.6% 6.3% 21% 31.9%
World economy: 30% 23% 3.2% 56.2%
CO2 Emissions: 24% 14% 13% 51%


China and the EU, both lesser polluters than the US, have one thing in common: They are both committed to further reducing their rate of emissions. Despite economic growth China has cut emissions by 17% since the mid 1990s. The odd one out is the USA. Immensely richer than China, but with less population than Europe, it emits more harmful chemicals than both of them. In addition, it has so far stubbornly refused to endorse international protocols designed to reduce such emissions. The world looks on flabbergasted as the world's greatest polluter cares not to take care or responsibility in the face of international pressure.

Source: www.vexen.co.uk...





[edit on 21-5-2008 by manson_322]

USA - Mainly responsible for global warming

Global warming and global climate change are now something we must get used to as there looks to be no real efforts to at least slow down this dangerous trend caused mainly by CO2 emissions as the result of dominant fossil fuels use. And major blame for this giant ecological problem goes to the United States.

In United States CO2 emission per capita is six times the global average citizen and more than 30 times that of a citizen in a developing country which is more than worrying information as the world's leading country is mainly responsible for global warming problem and leads in CO2 emission.

US contributes to almost 25 % of greenhouse gas emissions which is definitely too much considering US covers only 9 % of the world population. And though US citizens are becoming more aware of global warming problem, US government isn't doing all the right moves and still very much favors traditional fossil fuels which makes this difficult situation even worse.

And do you know where does the great irony lie? In the fact that people mostly affected with this global warming problem are the least responsible for its creation. This especially refers to the "black continent" where temperatures have become almost unbearable making already hard conditions even harder.

But soon this problem won't be somewhere else and will be making its big entrance to US once rising temperatures, sea levels and high hydrological extremes result in contaminated water supplies, newly evolving illnesses, extreme temperatures and flooding.
ecologicalproblems.blogspot.com...

The World Health Organization states that 2.4 million people die each year from causes directly attributable to air pollution; with 1.5 million of these deaths attributable to indoor air pollution.[3] A study by the University of Birmingham has shown a strong correlation between pneumonia related deaths and air pollution from motor vehicles. [11] Worldwide more deaths per year are linked to air pollution than to automobile accidents.[citation needed] Published in 2005 suggests that 310,000 Europeans die from air pollution annually.[citation needed] Direct causes of air pollution related deaths include aggravated asthma, bronchitis, emphysema, lung and heart diseases, and respiratory allergies.[citation needed] The US EPA estimates that a proposed set of changes in diesel engine technology (Tier 2) could result in 12,000 fewer premature mortalities, 15,000 fewer heart attacks, 6,000 fewer emergency room visits by children with asthma, and 8,900 fewer respiratory-related hospital admissions each year in the United States.
en.wikipedia.org...

as you can see 2.4 million die due to air pollution and usa is world's largest polluter

could you please provide a source for this scientific research?

Today’s Rich nations are responsible for global warming

Today’s rich nations are the ones responsible for global warming as greenhouse gases tend to remain in the atmosphere for many decades, and rich countries have been industrializing and emitting climate changing pollution for many more centuries than the poor countries.

As the World Resources Institute (WRI) highlighted in a report (2003) industrlialized countries are the biggest polluters:

* In terms of historical emissions, industrialized countries account for roughly 80% of the carbon dioxide buildup in the atmosphere to date. Since 1950, the U.S. has emitted a cumulative total of roughly 50.7 billion tons of carbon, while China (4.6 times more populous) and India (3.5 times more populous) have emitted only 15.7 and 4.2 billion tons respectively.
* Annually, more than 60 percent of global industrial carbon dioxide emissions originate in industrialized countries, where only about 20 percent of the world’s population resides.
* The environmental consequences of the policies of industrialized nations have had a large, detrimental and costly effect on developing countries — especially the poor in those countries, that are already burdened with debt and poverty.

As the Delhi-based Centre for Science and Environment (CSE) notes:

Industrialised countries set out on the path of development much earlier than developing countries, and have been emitting GHGs [Greenhouse gases] in the atmosphere for years without any restrictions. Since GHG emissions accumulate in the atmosphere for decades and centuries, the industrialised countries’ emissions are still present in the earth’s atmosphere. Therefore, the North is responsible for the problem of global warming given their huge historical emissions. It owes its current prosperity to decades of overuse of the common atmospheric space and its limited capacity to absorb GHGs.
www.globalissues.org...

In terms of historical emissions, industrialized countries account for roughly 80% of the carbon dioxide buildup in the atmosphere to date. Since 1950, the U.S. has emitted a cumulative total of roughly 50.7 billion tons of carbon, while China (4.6 times more populous) and India (3.5 times more populous) have emitted only 15.7 and 4.2 billion tons respectively.

enough said , west is most responsible for pollution and global warming ...

reply to post by Long Lance


the great progress of quantum physics and nanotech has taken place thanks to computers


[edit on 21-5-2008 by manson_322]

The database, called CARMA or Carbon Monitoring for Action, culls for the first time data both from government regulators around the world and commercial databases to provide an up-to-date look at the state of CO2 from power production—which accounts for one quarter of all carbon emissions. (The database doesn't look at other large sources, like transportation and manufacturing.) Here are the top sources of greenhouse gas emissions from electricity generation in the United States:

COMPANY TONS OF CO2 PER YEAR
1. American Electric Power 174 million
With 5 million customers in 11 states from Ohio to Texas, its biggest carbon emissions come from its Gavin coal plant in Cheshire, Ohio.
2. SOUTHERN 172 million
Has 4.3 million customers in the Southeast and owns the top three carbon-emitting power plants in the country: Scherer, in Juliet, Ga.; Miller in Quinton, Ala.; and Bowen in Cartersville, Ga.
3. (tie) AES CORP. 108 million
Has power plants from New York to California, with the worst emissions from its Petersburg, Ind., plant.
3. (tie) DUKE ENERGY 108 million
Serves 4 million customers in the Carolinas, Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana. Its Gibson plant in Owensville, Ind., is the nation's fourth-largest carbon emissions source in the power sector.
5. TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY 101 million
The nation's largest public power company serves the 8.7 million residents of the Tennessee Valley. Its Cumberland City, Tenn., plant ranks eighth in the nation in CO2 emissions.
6. NRG ENERGY 82.7 million
A wholesale power producer that operates in deregulated electricity markets throughout the country, its W.A. Parish plant in Thompsons, Texas, is the nation's No. 5 carbon emissions source.
7. XCEL ENERGY 76.1 million
With 3.3 million customers in the West and Midwest, its largest carbon generator is its Sherburne County plant in Becker, Minn.
8. MIDAMERICAN ENERGY HOLDINGS 70.9 million
A Warren Buffett Berkshire Hathaway company, MidAmerican serves customers in Iowa, Illinois, and South Dakota, with its largest CO2 emissions from the Jim Bridger plant in Point Of Rocks, Wyo.
9. PROGRESS ENERGY 68.1 million
Based in Raleigh, N.C., its plant in Roxoboro, N.C., is its biggest emissions source.
10. DOMINION RESOURCES 66.6 million
Dominion is based in Virginia, with operations stretching into the Northeast and Midwest. Its biggest carbon emissions source is its Mount Storm, W.Va., plant.



Strikingly, three Chinese power companies, South Africa's giant Eskom, and India's NTPC all generate more CO2 emissions than any single U.S. firm—underscoring the shared challenge posed by global climate change. The largest, Huaneng Power International of China, has emissions 68 percent higher than American Electric Power's.


www.usnews.com...
What was that......you should read the above again....what countries?


Funny you blast me earlier on for quoting reports that were older and yet you provide older reports to support your side of the argument;I guess it's ok for you though right?

I also take note to one of your so called sources...this one here:
www.vexen.co.uk...

If you go to the originating web site at www.vexen.co.uk
You guys might see where Mansons hate is coming from. Creepy little web site there full of hate for the USA and the UK. Of course it is going to have a slanted view of us.....sigh.This guy does nothing more than try to convince people of this tripe all the time.Manson let go of the hate and join the human race!!!

[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

[edit on 05/16/2008 by CaptGizmo]

*Yawn* Who cares which country pollutes the more...they all pollutes too much,anthropogenic global warming or not, every country should start to clean their yard and stop pointing fingers...

edit : typo

[edit on 21-5-2008 by Marmelade]