Dennis Fetcho and the Illuminatus Observor, a Cover for a Masonic Op??

I was recently going over the site Illuminatus Observor, and this guy calling himself "Dennis Fetcho, aka The Fetch", has released a ton of information on Occult esoteric traditions.

"Dennis Fetcho", aka, "The Fetch", claims that English is a product of the Speculative Sciences of Masonry, and he has put together quite a few compelling arguments. For instance, he states,

The great tragedy of Freemasonry, from a purists point of view, is that Freemasonry failed to control its own definitions. We can only speculate as to why, but one of the primary reasons can be inferred based on the inherent teachings and structure of the system. By creating an over riding belief that secrets had to be maintained and controlled within the Lodge System, the general public was effectively cut off from having a grounded rational basis in the larger philosophical basis of the Construction.

Source: Illuminatus Observor

Since Masonry contains within it the philosophical framework of "building" and "constructing", what exactly does Dennis Fetcho mean when he says "the Contruction"? What he seems to allude to is a complex philosophy set against ciphers and cryptograms:

Symbols, fused as they are to Universal Archetypes, become knowable upon reflection and observation, perfected as they are through rational thought and reasoned discourse. The inherent truths within become discernable with a precisely laid foundation. It is this precisely laid foundation that would be the "great work" of the early Continental Masons who set about creating a system set against "ciphers" and "cryptograms" fused to observable phenomena in Nature.

Source: Illuminatus Observor

It is no secret across the Internet that Above Top Secret is a Masonic run forum, or if this is incorrect, then the misconception exists. But clearly, can anyone here expand on what is being said as regards "Cryptograms" and "Ciphers"?

Can anyone give any further examples to help out here? Is "Dennis Fetcho, aka "The Fetch" a "renegade" Illuminatus operative?



[edit on 19-5-2008 by android1296]

[edit on 19-5-2008 by android1296]

[edit on 19-5-2008 by android1296]

Seriously, most of the occult stuff about Masons has been published, has been for years.
No, I'm not talking about the "OMG THEY WORSHIP SATAN AND SACRFICE BABIES!" crap that feeds what people want to hear, I mean the actual rituals and stuff. Sure, they kept some secrets, mostly ways to recognize one of their members and some wording and stuff.
EditL And no, the owners aren't Masons. The fact that Masons and Anti-Masons get banned right along with each other and everyone else should make that more obviouse.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by RuneSpider]

Originally posted by android1296


"Dennis Fetcho", aka, "The Fetch", claims that English is a product of the Speculative Sciences of Masonry, and he has put together quite a few compelling arguments. For instance, he states,

The great tragedy of Freemasonry, from a purists point of view, is that Freemasonry failed to control its own definitions. We can only speculate as to why, but one of the primary reasons can be inferred based on the inherent teachings and structure of the system. By creating an over riding belief that secrets had to be maintained and controlled within the Lodge System, the general public was effectively cut off from having a grounded rational basis in the larger philosophical basis of the Construction.

Source: Illuminatus Observor

Sorry, but I read that like three times, and still couldn't get it to make any sense.

Since Masonry contains within it the philosophical framework of "building" and "constructing", what exactly does Dennis Fetcho mean when he says "the Contruction"?

I haven't the slightest clue.

It is no secret across the Internet that Above Top Secret is a Masonic run forum, or if this is incorrect, then the misconception exists.

I've never heard that before. None of the owners of ATS are Masons. There are some Masons that are members here, but we're in the minority, and we pretty much limit ourselves to the "Secret Societies" page. ATS is a big place, and most of it has nothing to do with Masonry.

But clearly, can anyone here expand on what is being said as regards "Cryptograms" and "Ciphers"?

Personally, it sounds to me as if he made it all up. He wasn't very clear in what he was talking about, so who knows?

I have heard the same thing, but at the end of the day, where can we really get a comprehensive analysis of just what was their speculative craft? We know it exists, and we know they were a powerful organ at one time - yet their traditions are so little understood.

It seems they made little effort to educate the masses into their system and so they went the way of the dodo.

At one time, their lodges were active and everywhere.

Many now are rented out for Saturday freak shows, it seems.

reply to post by android1296


More likely it's the fact that many Masons have worked for a long time to counter the ignorance about Maonsry and their work has turned of the curiosity that seems to drive many people to join up.
Most of the interest in Mosonry is it's esoteic appeal, remove that and it's another charatible organization with funny hats and aprons.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Personally, it sounds to me as if he made it all up. He wasn't very clear in what he was talking about, so who knows?

The article was pretty clear. However, any in depth study of English Literature leads you back to the idea of ciphers and cryptograms. Whether we view this from Dees to Bacon (as some claim out there), and of course Manley P. Hall has a whole chapter dedicated to ciphers and cryptograms, so obviously within some of the Masonic schools, the idea of ciphers and cryptograms was not only well understood, but apparently highly developed.

The Illuminatus Observor is one of the view sites out there providing a comprehensive analysis of how this could be done.

reply to post by android1296


More regarding the idea of ciphers and cryptograms.

The proper way to interpret this relative to the Construct is to place the Oral Traditions (Rishis, Kalevala, Norse Edda's, and so forth) as being of the domain of Isis, while the literal writing of this knowledge, or setting the information down in letter form as being the domain of Osiris. Osiris is "the God", or the Alphabet, while each of the letters, then, become "gods".

Each system relies on the other for their total clarification within the larger system (necessarily comprised of the two).

That Shakespeare (Francis Bacon, et al) can be viewed as being associated with the Osirian Mysteries can be inferred through the use of various cryptological techniques that encoded the number "89", a number known to be associated with Osiris from basic knowledge of the Ordinal Code within Gematria.

Says Manley P. Hall in Secret Teachings of All Ages,

Authors sometimes based their cryptograms upon the numerical value of their own names; for example, Sir Francis Bacon repeatedly used the cryptic number 33--the numerical equivalent of his name. Numerical ciphers often involve the pagination of a book. Imperfect pagination, though generally attributed to carelessness, often conceals important secrets. The mispaginations found in the 1623 folio of "Shakespeare" and the consistent recurrence of similar errors in various volumes printed about the same period have occasioned considerable thought among scholars and cryptogrammatists. In Baconian cryptograms, all page numbers ending in 89 seem to have a special significance. The 89th page of the Comedies in the 1623 folio of "Shakespeare" shows an error of type in the pagination, the "9" being from a considerably smaller font than the "8." The 189th page is entirely missing, there being two pages numbered 187; and page 188 shows the second " 8 " scarcely more than half the size of the first one. Page 289 is correctly numbered and has no unusual features, but page 89 of the Histories is missing. Several volumes published by Bacon show similar errors, page 89 being often involved.

That Osiris is "89" (15+19+9+18+9+19=89=O+S+I+R+I+S) and Shakespeare (Bacon, et al) are encoding the number 89 are forms of "esoteric significances", conjecture par excellence. Those who are "in the know" know precisely the purpose for the number 89, yet nowhere will you find an "owner's manual" that specifically points you in the proper direction.

Hence many call "Hermetic Qaballa" an "artform", denying further the planned and imbedded mathematics, and hence a form of science, into the larger Illuminatus Philosophy.

Source: Illuminatus Observor

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by android1296

It is no secret across the Internet that Above Top Secret is a Masonic run forum, or if this is incorrect, then the misconception exists.

I've never heard that before. None of the owners of ATS are Masons. There are some Masons that are members here, but we're in the minority...

The guy is absolutely correct. This is indeed what is making the rounds throughout the interwebs' conspiracy circles. Yahoo groups, in particular. I'm subscribed to quite a few of them and there are numerous threads on many groups to the effect that ATS is so infested with Masons that the entire enterprise is compromised and can't be trusted anymore.

Sorry ATS, but that's your reputation now - thanks to the inordinate amount of prolific Masons on your board who make it their business to debunk everything that even touches upon potential slight of the craft. ...That's a lot of posting...and a lot of promotion.

Like it or not, ATS, your street-cred is shot. Period.

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


lol wut?

Are you serious haha. We just come on here to debate just like you do for masonry. I don’t see how that’s bad. It’s like saying that you can talk whatever you want about freemasonry, but not let the other side rebut or share their opinion. That doesn’t sound to fair now do it? Most of the masons on ATS don’t generally go on the secret society boards, they come here to discuss other conspiracies and the such. It’s just recent that there are so many mason bashing threads on here that we decide to reply back and shed some light on what is the truth instead of this hearsay ignorant anti-mason rubbish.

Are people really that close-minded? Why not step-back and look at the other side's arguments instead of just showing your opinions and not even wanting to think about the other side who are ACTUAL masons who came on ATS to show the true side of what masonry really is and what its worth. Why else would we come on ATS and tell you what we do and where to find our rituals if we didn’t want you to know.

haha that was my rant for the day

Originally posted by bushidomason
It’s like saying that you can talk whatever you want about freemasonry, but not let the other side rebut or share their opinion

That's the whole point. The other side has way too much representation for it to be a coincidence. My God, man; the Secret Societies board here might as well say thefreemason.com in its host name. It's like a pack of wolves.

It really doesn't matter if you put much validity in these observations, the only thing that matters is that the perception is out there. The CEO's thread on this very board attests to the fact that there's a "problem" with masonic posters taking things way too seriously. What he doesn't elaborate upon, however, is why there are so many of them in the first place.

well, when sh** piles up it attracts flies. There has been sooooo much freemason bashing lately, that it is only natural that the Masons would swarm the threads. I have to say some of the threads truly smelt to the high heavens. I my self somtimes go for months without posting and others here latly I have never heard of or see before. Maybe when the sh** is cleared out,the masons will happly return to the other threads or their other hobbies.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]

Originally posted by lost in the midwest
well, when sh** piles up it attracts flies.

My, my! Sh*t-eaters you say? Well now.

[edit on 19-5-2008 by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men]

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men

And if it wasn't for the lowly little flies we would all be buried beneath piles of it.



[edit on 19-5-2008 by lost in the midwest]

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


I wish you had an open-mind now as you first did when you looked at the mysteries of freemasonry, and still would take in new information about the fraternity. I wish you could see through the eye of the masons on ATS so you could really see how wrong you are and how all these anti-Masonic bashings are childish to say the least.

I challenge you to look at freemasonry from a different perspective for once and see what the other side of the coin looks like before making concrete decisions about something you really do not know.

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


You are aware that most of the threads dealing with Masons in the Secret Societies forum were started by the folks against Masons right?
And as far as them leaping into Mason bashing threads, well, are you seriouse? If I was to insult you, wouldn't you make sure to counter the insults and slander? Which is what the Mason's are doing.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Tell it to this guy:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

AboveTopSecret.com (as we keep saying) is a venue for speculating on conspiracies, not for defending groups upon which some conspiracy theories are based.

Once again...

AboveTopSecret.com is a venue for speculating on and discussing conspiracy theories and is not now nor ever will be expected to be a destination dedicated to the defense of Masonry.

Originally posted by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men
...the entire enterprise is compromised and can't be trusted anymore.

Wait a minute, are you telling me that World Watcher's recipe that I just copied down over on the Food & Cooking forum might not work? Another reason to hate myself........

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


Yes, I am aware of that post.
Now look at the top of the page, under Above Top Secret.
What does it say?
Deny ignorance.
If you want artifacts identified, ask a archeologist.
If you want DNA examined, asked a biologist.
If you have questions about Masonry, ask a Mason.
It's that simple. But of course people don't trust a source of information, and instead take what they believe to be true, which generally is wrong.
You'll notice pilots and meteorologists are active in Chemtrail threads, and there are rock hounds, amatuer and professional archaeologists in the Ancient Civ. forum. It's th esame thing.
For that matter, when someone like CutBothWays comes in and calls all Masons pedophiles and Satanic worshippers, or someone else comes in and makes a direct attack on Masonry, should the Masons just pass it over then?

Originally posted by RuneSpider
makes a direct attack on Masonry, should the Masons just pass it over then?

By all means do what you feel you have to. The problem is that there's a disproportionate amount of brethren to jump in in the first place. It really is a curious sight to behold - and unique to ATS, without a doubt.

reply to post by Fire_In_The_Minds_of_Men


Disproportionate in regards to what figures? I can honestly say that I know between 30-40 members are Masons by their responses in threads or communications through U2U. Many of them do not even post on the Secret Socitites Forum and compared to the entire Above Top Secret membership Masons are quite insignificant percentage-wise.