Soldier refuses to serve in Illegal Iraqi War

Here we go, someone actually standing up for what they believe, no matter the repercussions.

Original Article

"My decision is based on my desire to no longer continue violating my core values to support an illegal and unconstitutional occupation... I refuse to participate in the Iraq occupation," he said, as a dozen veterans of the five-year-old Iraq war looked on.

Here is what we have all been saying for along time.

Officials take "hard facts and slice them into small pieces to make them presentable to the secretary of state or the president -- and all with the intent of furthering the occupation of Iraq," Goldsmith added.

Doesn't look like he is going to run either.

But while many seek refuge in Canada, the young soldier vowed to stay in the United States to fight "whatever charges the army levels at me."

Hmmm, I could actually go either way on this, as both sides would have valid arguments.

On one hand, a soldier thinking for himself is great, and DOES need to be exercised.

On the other, refusing to fight in a war when you are in the military and your brethren are dying in your place, doesn't make for a very obedient, or noble, or loyal soldier. What would happen if all soldiers started picking and choosing everything.

I guess the answers would have to lie in each individual situation...

Good for him. Too bad not all the soldiers would stand up for America by refusing to fight an illegal war.

He is more of a soldier than any of the others because he sees that the government would not be able to have their illegal wars if the people refused to fight.

Soldiers sign up to protect their country. This is another guy that's realised this is not what this war is actually about.

Hats off to him. Hopefully more will follow.

He forgot to unsign his oath. Thank you George Bush, the inventor of the unsigning ceremony. Once he unsigns his oath he may do as he likes without the guilt of abandoning his fellow warriors. I unsigned mine while GW unsigned treaties. Next I will unsign my credit card agreement.

Folks,
This is absolute garbage.
He is a quitter, plain and simple.

The legality of the war is not for him to decide. I cannot wait to see how his court martial goes. I feel sorry for the other people in his squad/platoon/company who are now going to have to carry more of a load because if this piece of crap.

Thank God the vast majority of the military realizes what is at stake and are out there every day doing their job so that you people can jump on your computers and criticize them from your behind your user names.

There have been many soldiers refusing to go to Iraq, the most well know was probably Lt. Watada, who's case is still pending. He was court-martialed, and it was declared a mis-trial, and is now pleading double jeopardy.

I think this is a good thing for this soldier to do, but I'm sure others will come by calling him a coward as they did before in this thread.

Army Officer Refuses To Go To War

I am more curious about this congressional hearing that he and the others testified in front of.

What's that all about?

This clown deserves everything he receives, now. He'll have a court marshal at a minimum.

Privates through Generals do not pick and choose were they are to go and perform their duty. They have specific rights and regulations on following legal orders, BUT; they do not determine what is legal.

Back in the good ol' daze of WW2, how many guys would have not gone to Europe and free most of the anti-Americans now inhabiting these forums and spreading their wisdom....

Didn't have a choice then, don't have a choice now...

It's just as well. People like him are no good in a combat zone, anyway.

Prison will likely suit him better.

He'll make a lot of friends there.

How is this war illegal? Didnt congress approve it?

Im a vet who is against this stupid war,however when you sign up you should know there is a chance that you may have to fight.If the guy was drafted I could understand,but he signed up on his own.Folks if you have no intention to fight dont sign up.No one is making you sign up.Dont become a cop if you dont want to have to shoot someone.Dont become a fireman if you dont want to run in a burning building.Dont be a pilot if you are afraid to fly.Dont....well you get my point.

How is this war illegal? Didnt congress approve it?

reply to post by hinky


I've always wondered about the term "volunteer force".

"Didn't have a choice then. Don;t have a choice now."

Thanks for explaining it to me.

The soldier is a coward and should of never enlisted in the first place. It's not a soldiers job to question the legalty, or moralty of a fight. A soldier enlisted in the arm forces of America to fight for his country. Plain and simple. A soldier can't pick and choose what fight he wished to participate in. If it were like this how many soldiers would want to step into the battlefields of Omaha,Peleliu,Guadalcanal,Bellau Wood, Iwo Jima, or the tet offensive? Which were all like meat grinders to human fleseh. I'm pretty sure every dammed Marine and Soldiers would choose to sit out of those battles. They might even come up with a moral issue in doing so. I hope he gets years in a military prison, a dishonerable discharge, and never finds a good job again. The man was already a soldier in the United States Military. What did he think he might end up doing? Picking flowers in North Carolina? He left his comrades, his country, and his title in complete shame. If the man was a civilian being forced into a war his point would have validation. Plain and simple this man was using the "moral" issues he might have to get out of actually doing his job. He was probably scared to serve and worked up that excuse.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Folks,
This is absolute garbage.
He is a quitter, plain and simple.

The legality of the war is not for him to decide. I cannot wait to see how his court martial goes. I feel sorry for the other people in his squad/platoon/company who are now going to have to carry more of a load because if this piece of crap.

Thank God the vast majority of the military realizes what is at stake and are out there every day doing their job so that you people can jump on your computers and criticize them from your behind your user names.

"Oh my! the soldiers are all away in another country, thank god they are there in iraq protecting us! thank god we can go on our computers because the soldiers are not in the country protecting us! Thank god they are in iraq, they don't know why, but what the hell at least they are in some sort of war, they must be heroes! I mean they are risking their lives! They must be some sort of hero, right? too bad they don't know what they are risking their lives for, oh well, no need to question it, just keep on creating chaos. Oh wait isn't a soldier supposed to serve and protect?" (my attempt at sarcasm lol)

Now tell me what the hell does a bunch of soldiers hanging around in iraq have to do with people being able to go on computers thousands of miles away.

So basically you believe in pathetic, unevolved, slave laws, instead of good morals, and free will?








[edit on 19-5-2008 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by USMC-oorah
The soldier is a coward and should of never enlisted in the first place. It's not a soldiers job to question the legalty, or moralty of a fight. A soldier enlisted in the arm forces of America to fight for his country. Plain and simple. A soldier can't pick and choose what fight he wished to participate in.

You see that is what is wrong with this! the army has NO morals. A soldier fights for a REASON, he risks his LIFE! of course he has the right to question the legality, or morality of a fight.

Why don't you go into a time machine and hang out with nazi's, they like your thinking.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
It's just as well. People like him are no good in a combat zone, anyway.

Prison will likely suit him better.

He'll make a lot of friends there.

People like him are the BEST kind of soldier in a combat zone of GOOD intentions. People like him would never end up killing and raping innocent victims, people like him would never end up taking orders that kill civillians or cause problems, people like him would never take any evil orders etc.

If more soldiers were like him, we would NEVER have a nazi germany type of situation ever again.

Soldiers are humans, your goverment has made them into slaves.

What i'm going to do is hang out with my fellow Marines and people with the same opinions. I'll let you think what you think and i'll think what I think. I've made a oath, a promise, and will do anything to uphold that. I didn't enlist to coward out. If your not going to want to possibly kill, or be killed don't join the military. Stay at home and prosper in your own way. Don't take that oath and then shame what people having been giving their lives for for hundreds of years. Whether, or not the fight is "morally pleasing."

reply to post by USMC-oorah


On the contrary this soldier is the bravest of the brave.
He is a real man, a real warrior, not a sock puppet wimp
who doesn't question evil misleaders. I salute this great
soldier in the name of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson
and give him the highest award in the Milky Way Galaxy
-the Gold Star Nebula of Supreme Courage.

If a Nazi soldier refused to serve under Hitler then he is
now considered a great hero of moral courage.


Bush and Cheney pulled a coup de tat with the Supreme Court
picking the winner in 2000-that's unconstitutional-they lied
about weapons of mass destruction and invaded Iraq for oil-
that's not only unconstitutional it is treasonous.
More than 500,000 innocent civilians have been slaughtered for
no real reason except the greed of oil barons.

US soldiers are sworn to protect and defend the Constitution not
corporate oil barons.

You can't compare WWII battles with the war in Iraq.
WWII was a war where Japan and Germany attacked us.
Iraq did nothing, zero, zilch to us and this war will go down as an
illegal occupation. The US soldiers who do follow evil orders like Nazi
sock puppets are the cowards.

However attacking Al Quada and the Taliban in Afghanistan was justified since they attacked us.

For those who contend this is an illegal war, you should try researching the numerous acts of hostile fire perpetrated by Iraq against jets patrolling an agreed upon no fly zone.