Drug testing and you...

When the constitution was written,I doubt there was a drug problem in schools. Also students really have no rights. In legal terms anyways. They cannot vote, and are under the supervision of their parents. Therefore if parents and teachers are stepping in to help stop drug problems in school...I do not see a problem with it.
Really,its just something that is supposed to help society as a whole.

I find it to be huge problem. For starters, same argument as gay marriage, where do you stop it? VD tests for school? Cholesterol count for kids? Daily bodily checks for bruises and signs of abuse? Broken Hymen check? Weekly pregnancy test? After all, we have to get this bad element out. Where do you send these bad kids? To a seperated school where they only consort with those other bad kids? Send them to therapy? Send them to Betty Ford? Do we punish them or do we try to help them? Do they go to jail? Where would it stop?

Also, those young people who have no rights, become people who do. They were raised up thinking that these illegal searches are alright. It's all they know. So, whenever the government wants them to give a piss sample once a month for whatever they want their urine for this time, they will have no problem with this illegal search. This is an important issue. We should not allow this no matter how good it may seem.

Originally posted by OXmanK
It's not about a student's right to get high. Look at that little excerpt from the CONSTITUTION and tell me that this proposed piece of legislation does not violate it.

there is no Constitutional or other legally protected right to engage in illegal conduct.

Originally posted by OXmanK
I We should not allow this no matter how good it may seem.

Ya......we should turn our backs and ignore drug use altogether. We wouldn't want to infridge on our childs right to privacy.

WAKE UP

But there is something in the Constitution protecting people from illegal search and seizures, is there not? Would this not be it? I think so and there is the problem.

Originally posted by OXmanK
I find it to be huge problem. For starters, same argument as gay marriage, where do you stop it? VD tests for school? Cholesterol count for kids? Daily bodily checks for bruises and signs of abuse? Broken Hymen check? Weekly pregnancy test? After all, we have to get this bad element out. Where do you send these bad kids? To a seperated school where they only consort with those other bad kids? Send them to therapy? Send them to Betty Ford? Do we punish them or do we try to help them? Do they go to jail? Where would it stop?

Also, those young people who have no rights, become people who do. They were raised up thinking that these illegal searches are alright. It's all they know. So, whenever the government wants them to give a piss sample once a month for whatever they want their urine for this time, they will have no problem with this illegal search. This is an important issue. We should not allow this no matter how good it may seem.

Well I can't speak for other states,but children in CA get sent to a continuation high scool. It gets them out of the crap in regular high school,reduced class size,more interaction between teachers and students. Despite the fact that these schools are made up of pregant teenagers,kids busted with drugs,broken homes...whatever,the teaching is way better than in regular schools. I know, I went to one. Maybe if they had tested us for drugs when I went to school,I would not have had to go through 20 years of bull# in my own life.
When I went to school there were no drug tests,locker checks,dogs sniffing around...nothing. But drugs were everywhere. I had drugs and booze in my locker,never worried about getting caught. The never checked,therfore my parents never knew anything,until it was too late.
So yeah as parent of 2....check away. I would add that teachers should also be checked on a regular basis as well.(Used to steal weed from my science teacher)

It's not an issue of if they are using drugs. It is an issue of RIGHTS. You wake up. They are starting to be stripped away. For what? This illusion of security?

Originally posted by OXmanK
But there is something in the Constitution protecting people from illegal search and seizures, is there not? Would this not be it? I think so and there is the problem.

From someones house...absoulutly. On school premises,in public schools, then it should be majoriety rules. If the parents think it is a good idea,then make it a law. If only a couple parents like and the rest don't,then don't make it a law. But I am thinking something like this will pass in a heartbeat.

I cannot believe that none of ya'll see how this is removing rights and allowing the government more control over you all.

Removing the right of using drugs from children...yeah I can see how that would be a terrible thing.

Originally posted by OXmanK
I cannot believe that none of ya'll see how this is removing rights and allowing the government more control over you all.

What rights have you lost in your lifetime? Name ONE

Originally posted by nyeff
Removing the right of using drugs from children...yeah I can see how that would be a terrible thing.

Even if they are using drugs, which I assure you not all of them are, IT IS STILL REMOVING RIGHTS. Freedom is all or nothing. Either you have it or you don't. There is no "sorta free". This is only the tip of the iceberg of things to come.

We are talking about children....they have no rights,as I said earlier. So it is a mute point. If you were talking about the govenment coming into your house to check adults...then yeah,I would have a lot of issues with this.
So if they do check children so muth the better. It means interaction happens much sooner in life. And the children that are not doing drugs,have nothing to hide. Really the only people against being tested,are the ones that are using.

Originally posted by nyeff
Really the only people against being tested,are the ones that are using.

**Venus stands to applaud The Great/all knowing Mod Nyeff**

Children absolutely have rights.

Children have human rights,

what they do not have is civil rights.


Here's the whole arguement in a nutshell. If this requires parental consent, then let the parents do it. There are plenty of drug tests on the market.

Do we really need the school to do this? I am tired of governmental AND school red tape which is taking the focus away from the education and placing it more squarely on the "raising" and educating about life than about things to help them succeed professionally (WHICH IS ALL SCHOOL IS FOR).

If parents want it, let them pay for it. As for now, let the schools worry about what happens on their property.

Originally posted by nyeff
We are talking about children....they have no rights,as I said earlier. So it is a mute point. If you were talking about the govenment coming into your house to check adults...then yeah,I would have a lot of issues with this.
So if they do check children so muth the better. It means interaction happens much sooner in life. And the children that are not doing drugs,have nothing to hide. Really the only people against being tested,are the ones that are using.

You are wrong. Kids do have rights. How is it a kid has the right to plead the fifth? Or has the right to a fair trial. Also, kids aren't getting arrested for speaking their minds. KIDS HAVE RIGHTS. By your standard, a cop could pull over a legally driving 16 year old, search him, beat him, etc. because he has no rights and the cop has authority. He/she has the same rights as all people.

No, the only people against it are not users. That is a crass generalization. I do not use, but I am against this. Hell, this whole proposition doesn't even effect me directly. But I am against it. This is about our freedoms slowly being weasled away. WHERE WILL THIS ACTION STOP? It won't because you raise generations of people who accept this type of action. They will think it is normal and accept other measures like it. Drug testing in school, drug testing in the library, drug testing to use a public toilet, drug testing in voting, drug testing to get your hair cut...where do you draw the line? It is apparent that the only line you have is where it affects you and that is selfish, mean spirited, and arrogant.

Originally posted by OXmanK

Originally posted by nyeff
We are talking about children....they have no rights,as I said earlier. So it is a mute point. If you were talking about the govenment coming into your house to check adults...then yeah,I would have a lot of issues with this.
So if they do check children so muth the better. It means interaction happens much sooner in life. And the children that are not doing drugs,have nothing to hide. Really the only people against being tested,are the ones that are using.

You are wrong. Kids do have rights. How is it a kid has the right to plead the fifth? Or has the right to a fair trial. Also, kids aren't getting arrested for speaking their minds. KIDS HAVE RIGHTS. By your standard, a cop could pull over a legally driving 16 year old, search him, beat him, etc. because he has no rights and the cop has authority. He/she has the same rights as all people.

No, the only people against it are not users. That is a crass generalization. I do not use, but I am against this. Hell, this whole proposition doesn't even effect me directly. But I am against it. This is about our freedoms slowly being weasled away. WHERE WILL THIS ACTION STOP? It won't because you raise generations of people who accept this type of action. They will think it is normal and accept other measures like it. Drug testing in school, drug testing in the library, drug testing to use a public toilet, drug testing in voting, drug testing to get your hair cut...where do you draw the line? It is apparent that the only line you have is where it affects you and that is selfish, mean spirited, and arrogant.

It is the parent that is responsable for their children at all times. If my son came over tweaked on crank and smashed out all of your windows, who are you going to sue? Thats right,ME. If he came over and beat your wife,it will be me that you come after. Oh my son may do time at the boys ranch,but any monatery,lawyer fees etc,will come from me. Now if there is a to help prevent that from happing in the first place...I am all for it. I am all for my children not to be around drugs in at all...ever.
Drug testing kids in high school would do wonders in keeping kids in check. Make them think twice. And if they do test positive,then intervention begins at a much earlier age. Which is another plus.
A childs "rights" should only extend as far as their parents want.
The constitution needs some serious reworking. The world has changed so much in the last 2 centuries. Nothing is the same as it was way back then. Our forefathers could never have predicted America and the world would change the way it has. Bet ya anything if our forefathers were here now,not only would they be disgusted with what has become of America,but they would do everything in their power to make changes now. (to the constitution)

I think KJ pretty much has it right when he mentions parental consent. It is up to the parents when its all said and done.

I am not a mean spirited,arrogant person. What I am is responsible. I take being a father very seriously. Anything I can do that helps to keep my children(and other kids) safe, I will do. I wish they testing around when I was kid. It might have a changed a lot.
But it is a free country,if in the future you want your children to have the right to do drugs,I hope you are there to protect that right.

Let's try this again:

The bill, The Empowering Parents and Teachers for a Drug Free Education Act (H.R. 3720) would set guidelines for:
1... testing accuracy
2... test result confidentiality
3... and would require parental consent -- but
parents would have to proactively opt out of the
program if they did not want their children to be .
4... The bill would not allow schools to turn drug test results over to law enforcement
5... and test results would be destroyed after the students left school.


Being a mother of a 12 year old and also being a recovering ADDICT, I feel I have the right to say "NO, YOU ARE WRONG"

I am legally responsible for my childs actions until he is 18. If he smashes a neighbors window...I PAY FOR IT. If he doesn't go to school...I GO TO JAIL. If he's using drugs....I WANT TO KNOW. I used for years before my parents found out. I also think if they had done this back when I was in high school............I may not have ended up with an addiction.

Kids are kids. No stoping them all. They feel they are invincible.

Most of your arguements have been about you. It's not about you. "What about the children?" "What about the drugs and our children?" "We must save ur children." Guess what? # THE CHILDREN! This is not about them. This is about our government removing rights. This is about indoctrinating people to believe this is how the world should work. This is about our freedoms and the protection of it for future generations. This is about drawing that line in the sand. This is about telling the government we do not want any more regulations and restrictions of our rights. Next, they would want drug testing to get into a bar. After all, next to school yard this is the best place to get drugs. Or drug testing to walk the streets. I know plenty of drugs are dealt and done on the streets and alley ways. Is that a good idea? No because it affects you. But you don't see how this measure will affect you eventually. Forcing drug testing is a progressive thing. It will not stop at the school yard.

What if the parents refuse the testing? They do not tell us the ramifications of refusal. No extra-curricular events? No more reduced or free lunch for the kids of parents who find this to be wrong? No more free bus ride to the school? What about not being able to graduate? Drug testing as an exit test for school!

This is not good policy. This is nothing more than another way for the government to screw us and you people do not see that. All you think about is the issue of drugs over your freedoms. This issue is not only about drugs and you really need to consider it. Consider the things this government has done to limit rights.