Together We Can Put an End to Religious/Ideological Bigotry at ATS!

reply to post by Osiris1953

A good post to which I'm for reconciliation- but these websites thrive on the tension between religions and idealogies and to attempt a reconciliation of the driving force in American, nay World, conversation is itself an attempt to destroy. So I'm gonna add Politics to the mix- I'll bet your an Obamite waiting to take on Methuselah McCain in November.

reply to post by qxlb52


Some tension is fine, but when it leads to mud slinging it is wholly inappropriate.
As for my political beliefs, I'm not going to discuss them in this thread unless entirely necessary. This is about us as an online community, and yes I assert my views concerning the conflict, but in this particular thread I'm not going to lean towards either side politically or religiously. Thank you for your post.

I'd like to thank everyone for their contributions while I was away. I'd like to give an extra special thanks to ImaginaryReality1984, Crabmeat, Chise61, and Acewombat. I would encourage all to read their posts and contemplate their points of view. Which happen to be in the same spirit as what is intended for this thread. Thank you all for your continued contribution.

I'd also like to give an extra extra special thanks to WraothAscendant who I asked to keep an eye on the thread in my absence.

Keep the conversation alive, there are many more people who could benefit from this thread.

I am overwhelmed by the response I've had so far, and it makes me feel great that people feel comfortable enough to speak their minds here.

I'm going to be getting ready for work shortly, but I will keep an eye on the happenings till I leave. Keep up the great work. I'll be fully available later in the evening tonight.

I think its funny how every post on this thread is trying so hard not to be bias , but by the way there phrasing,it is really evident that the y are bias, now im a Nestorion, but no blind faith, always a skeptic..I feel everyone on ATS is not 100% sure..we are all skeptics thats why we love ATS

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


I am trying not to be biased. What I think is funny is that people differ in the opinions of which side I am biased towards. That should be an indication that it is not so much me being biased, but others who are making assumptions as to whose side I'm really on. Some assume I am Christian and intend on using this to convey some brand of Christianity, others assume I am an atheist, and think that I have ulterior motives relating to atheism. Just because I applaud people in both camps who have come here in a positive manner does not mean that I am necessarily affiliated with either. I only mention the two groups because I have yet to see a Buddhist, a Muslim, or any other religion making their voice heard in this thread.

We've had a few agnostics as well, and their opinions are equally important.
I didn't forget about them.

I encourage you to continue to post. I appreciate your concerns.

I add also like to add that though I may have been labeled by some in this thread, I have not confirmed nor denied anything.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Osiris1953]

[edit on 15-5-2008 by Osiris1953]

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


You seem to think there is something wrong with a bit of biasness. I would tend to disagree.

I would say, in moderation, most things are good. In excess, most things are bad. Biasness merely means you prefer one thing over another. I am biased towards Omeletes when compared to scrambled eggs. I would choose and Omelet for no other reason than it is an Omelet and the competition is a scramble egg. Even if studies proved that the Scramble Egg was indeed the better meal. There is no problem there.

It's when biasness gets extreme that problems arise. In the previous case I can simply say "I tend to want to believe in Atlantiens. I'm not sure where, but I'm sure there is a reasonable place beneath the waves or under ice caps where such a great continent could be hidden". The majority of the reason for this belief is simply that they desire the romantic idea of Atlantis, and as of yet the entirety of earth and sea has yet to be scourged to disprove this. For this person it would take COMPLETE TRUTH, not just anothers views or theories, to change their mind.

This is not extreme, as they already state they know they are being a bit less than reasonable until complete truth can be shown and are holding a changing of judgement until then. They would also be respectful and not try to change your view, thus leaving this balanced and not exteme.

An extremist would shout down ever shred of evidence given to repute his view, and in the same breath attempt to turn the situation into one where he can show proof of his cause. Now, this in itself isn't so bad (outside of the denying of fact, which on a conspiricy board is to be expected i.e. cover up and all that) except that this usually takes on a 'Smarter than You' chastising tone.

No, nothing at all wrong with a little biasness. Without it decisions would never be made. It's simply taking things to the extreme in inappropriate manners that is the problem.

You're perfectly right Osiris, religion is a personal matter - Every individual is entitled to their personal belief. If I decided to debate my own belief system on a forum such as this, then people will either agree or disagree.

In general, because of the diversity of culture, it would be logical to assume that more people would disagree. Then again, if I had strong religious beliefs, I wouldn't be trying to justify them on ATS.

Some forums tend to have designated sections for religious discussion. Sadly, on this forum 'religion' seems to pervade and obfuscate almost every thread posted.

I deeply respect every single person's right to believe whatever they wish and have personally defended that right many times in the past - but I also respect an individual's right not to be 'bombarded' with what they might consider to be primative, childish, over-zealous and self-righteous dogma.

The way in which an intelligent debate is often interrupted by somebody wading in with a gigantic quote from the Bible (purely an example - I have nothing against the Bible) is tantamount to verbal abuse. It's as if they can't think of anything better to say. Then somebody else will respond with an opposing quote etc etc. Frustrated participants will object and 'Lo and Behold' religion is being 'attacked'.

If you don't want us to laugh at your 'knickers' then keep them in the washing basket.

Best wishes

Myrdyn



[edit on 15/5/08 by Myrdyn]

your correct!!if there wasnt a little biasness there would be no debate!!!!What I love about this site is there is left, right, middle, spiritual, non-spiritual, people who believe there are aliens out there and people who dont, take me -I'm a redneck libertarian who is into cryptozoology, paranormal, conspiracies, history, and gov issues, and a nestorian(A branch of christianity) now most christians would say I'm not a true chistian but that would be wrong (damn bible thumpers lol)I believe in OUT OF THE BOX perception is the key to more wisdom and a funner out look on life, Thank God for ATS

reply to post by Osiris1953


What I see as a problem is the forum some of the threads are in. If a thread is in the "Conspiracies in Religion Forum" you can expect controversy in what you may be trying to get across.

If someone qualifies in the "Faith, Spirituality and Religious Forum" that they are not debating the subject, but want to keep it to like minded believers, I for one - respect that.

I am not religious but am spiritual. I will confront religious issues because - I can, and because I feel it is needed. But many threads I do not touch. I never go to a Christian Website and challenge them.

ATS is not a religious site but is a conspiracy site. Although all are welcome, we all need to know that we can, and will be challenged. I certainly am! I think that there are few who appreciate what my threads entail, that is ok with me.

Religion and politics are two subjects that are just bound to result in heated conflict. When I was growing up my mother taught me never to discuss either subject in polite company. I have discussed both on ATS. Of the two, I find the politics forums to be the most civil. Terrible things are said about candidates, but seldom about the authors. The religious threads seem to me to boil down to one of two statements: Either people who believe in a higher power are complete fools; or people who don't adopt a particular form of Christianity are going to burn in hell forever. They get more personal and often more venomous in their attacks.

That said, I don't believe absolute objectivity is even possible on either subject. I'm not sure it exists anywhere, but certainly not in religion or politics. The best one can strive for is an attitude of acceptance toward each other and a spirit of inquiry toward the subject. There must be disagreements but they would be much more productive if personal attacks were set aside.

reply to post by bugs_n_recovery


Hi, you said that you are a Nestorion. I have never heard of this before, and would really be interested in learning more about you're beliefs if you wouldn't mind sharing them with me.

Has anyone checked out the link to the video "Esoteric Agenda" that I posted? It will definitely make you think, and while it shows origins of today's religions in older religions, it does not attempt to disprove God. I personally believe there is a God, but somewhere along the way powerful men corrupted religion and used it as a control means. 87% of people in the world base their thoughts and opinions on information they hear from other sources, while only 13% formulates their own conclusions and personal beliefs. I am not trying to say that anyone or everyone who has posted thus far is in that 87%, in fact I believe most people who frequent this site are in the 13% demographic.

I have an honest question for the Christians, Muslims, and Jews who are reading this thread: Is your motivation for believing your religion based on love or on fear?

I would guess that the majority of religious people have so much faith in their religion because they were taught to, and they were also taught the consequences of what would happen if they did not believe. When you boil down every emotion and feeling we as human experiences, there is only love and fear. Love is good and fear is bad. I just hope everyone who is devoutly religious is that way because of love and not because of fear of consequences of not following your religious rules.

Many great posts since my last visit I'd like to ask questions to a few members, but my time is sparse today, so I'll just start with this...

Originally posted by thillygooth

I have an honest question for the Christians, Muslims, and Jews who are reading this thread: Is your motivation for believing your religion based on love or on fear?

Great question. I would like to extend that question by saying this:

When you (fellow Christian, Muslim, Jew) express your faith to non-believers ,is it based on love or fear? Do you think your expression instills love or fear into their minds?

I'm agnostic and have a few religious threads under my belt.

I have difficulty having faith, I believe in science because I can see, hear, smell, and touch it. Most religions I know of attempt to write there own version of science and even history, based on faith or belief other than fact or observation, to the point of building museums and such that claim to be history or science fact.

I have no problem with people that wish to believe or to have faith in a religion. But for Real, can ya leave me out of it?

However

When these groups of people attempt to limit science such as stim cell research, or what is taught in public school, based on there religious beliefs, that is when it starts to bother me. I personally don't have problems with creation taught in public schools, but when they go after evolution, the theory that is supported by 95% of the scientific community that is when I get upset.

Also many of our laws are based on their religious beliefs, this one group can dictate censorship for all. I'm against laws against nudity, prostitution, a certain weed, gambling, basically I'm against most laws regarding vice, or what these religious groups have labeled vice, if you don't approve, don't participate, but that’s not good enough for them they have and continue to attempt to legislate there religious beliefs.

I'm also against religion being political, because I don't want to live in a religious state or by religious laws. Personally every church in America that gets political should lose there tax exempt status.

I'm not meaning to derail this thread, but I agree this was a good post, but far too rare of a thing in the real world and here on ATS:

reply to post by worldwatcher


And As for keeping things civil? This is a discussion forum, debates happen here and the way I see it if you abide by the T&C, lets roll.

I agree with the posters that say that there religious or spirituality should be a personal experience, but in reality I live in a country were supreme court justices are chosen based on there moral view of lets say abortion, and Not on there view of the Constitution.

Excuse me if I don’t walk hand in hand with those that wish to dictate how I live threw the legal system.

Debate not only needs to happen but is healthy for us all too happen.

I think what many of you are saying(pardon me if I'm wrong) is that
personal beliefs are personal and don't talk about it to others.

Is this correct?

Aren't we on ATS because we have FREEDOM to speak without foolish regulations?
I don't personally want to hear about aliens and (other stuff), but don't demand NOT to hear about it.

The way ATS is set up seems to work, except for those who want to just hear their own opinions...........

I agree that some issues can be argued too much.

Either someone is going to open their eyes or not.
I can't push them and I have other things to do.
Peace.

to LL mine is all of love and friendship with my higher power u2u me lets talk

I doubt that anyone who has a belief thinks that their belief is the wrong one. Of course we think we are right! This is why we have our beliefs. We all tend to believe we are right. However, many of us are open to challenging our beliefs. I have learned that I no longer believe in many things I was taught as a child. Challenging your own belief systems creates growth as a human.

Although I am Christian, I belong to no organized religious group. I consider myself a very spiritual person. I may disagree with your belief as opposed to my own, but I will never tell you that you are wrong. I will often give scriptural reference to show why I believe what I do. I know that those who do not believe the Bible will toss this reference and that is fine with me.

I’m not trying to convert anyone. It is the combination of our life experiences that lead us to believe what we believe. I understand the need some feel to convert the masses. I just don’t subscribe to it.

Reading this site is like looking for jewels in a henhouse. You have to dig through a lot of crap sometimes, but if you dig deep enough you just might find a true gem.

Dark elf I dont think im right I'ts more what is right for me and I think thats true for anyone !!!!you should never push your beliefs on ANYONE!!!...Whatever works for you cool I am greatful that anyone has a higher power (can ya tell im a 12 stepper lol)

by hte way dark elf ...ya christians would say your name is blasphemy that just shows what kinda world we deal with, by looking at your name i wouldnt think you were a christian!!!!!seee cant we all just get along !!!!!!