That underground room near the paw of Sphinx

Originally posted by Hollywood11
You accuse me of using "dated" information, and then you quote poeple who haven't been there since the 1970s.

No one ever was allowed to excavate or even close to what would be called an "excavation" of the Hall of Records.

Next we drilled 4 inch bore holes on the anomalies and inspected the hole with downhole TV. Nothing was found except small cracks. We paid special attention to the front paws, and under the paws. No chambers!

I do not believe there are any chambers under the Sphinx at this point in time.

Pretty much the response I've come to expect.

Harte

Lol, they didn't drill down as far as the Hall of Records. THat's a long ways down. You can't deny that the chambers have been proven to be there through sesmographs, radar, and sonar. That's as far as the research has gotten really, no one drilled down that far, or as far as the actual chamber.

Something else that is quite telling, is that once the real researchers got in, in 1991, all of a sudden everyone was kicked out and barred from Giza by Hawass.

You're going to have to do better than people from the 1970s claiming to have drilled into something they couldn't have drilled into without going very very deep, much more than 4 inches!

That's not an excavation of the Hall of Records, that's not an excavation. Excavation means they drilled into the actual chamber.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Originally posted by Harte
You are posting as lot of old information here.

This is funny that you would say that since I have sources from research done in the 1990s, where all you have is so called "research" done in the 1970s.

In the 1990s the chamber was proven. If we want to get to the bottom of this we have to use the best most thourough research available. That means we have to go with Robert Schoch (Boston University), Thomas Dobecki, and John Anthony West. Ask them, they'll tell you how it really is.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Lol, they didn't drill down as far as the Hall of Records. THat's a long ways down. You can't deny that the chambers have been proven to be there through sesmographs, radar, and sonar. That's as far as the research has gotten really, no one drilled down that far, or as far as the actual chamber.

I certainly do deny that. As do the excavators mentioned in my earlier post.

These are the people that found the "anomaly" you mentioned. They also drilled into it and discovered what it was.

Originally posted by Hollywood11Something else that is quite telling, is that once the real researchers got in, in 1991, all of a sudden everyone was kicked out and barred from Giza by Hawass.

You're going to have to do better than people from the 1970s claiming to have drilled into something they couldn't have drilled into without going very very deep, much more than 4 inches!

Duh.
It's a four inch diameter hole, not a four inch deep hole.

Also, it's you that will have to do better. You claim nothing has been done since 1991. Yet you haven't even tried to see if this statement is factual.

I told you where to look and I told you I'm not gonna do it for you.

Originally posted by Hollywood11That's not an excavation of the Hall of Records, that's not an excavation. Excavation means they drilled into the actual chamber.

Right, that makes sense.

IOW, the chamber must be there so they can drill into it?

Harte

The research done in the 1970s was hardly thorough. The research and drilling done in the 1990s was done in much more detail with better equipment and methods. At the end of the day, scientific research and drilling done in the 1990s beats any research that would have been done in the 1970s.

It is true that around 1996 almost researchers doing legitimate research relevant to actual history were kicked out of Egypt.

It is also true that around 1999, Hawass halted all research done at the Giza plateau for at least 10 years. All scienists except him have been barred from conducting research at Giza, including Rudolp Gattenbrinbk and the teams who were studing the Sphinx and Hall of Records.



[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Originally posted by Harte

I do not believe there are any chambers under the Sphinx at this point in time

This is a ridiculous statement. There are tons of chambers and passageways all over the place under the Sphinx, and real geologists know that they aren't natural formations of rock.

For one thing, how does this guy explain the Tomb of Osiris if there are no chambers under the Sphinx?

I think we can basically forget about anything else he says if he makes statements like this.

reply to post by Harte


take your disinfo somewhere else

edited double post

[edit on 5/14/2008 by Harte]

Originally posted by Hollywood11
The research done in the 1970s was hardly thorough. The research and drilling done in the 1990s was done in much more detail with better equipment and methods. At the end of the day, scientific research and drilling done in the 1990s beats any research that would have been done in the 1970s.

So? The info you based your earlier claims on comes from the 1970s. I told you there has been more recent work done concerning the sphinx.
Find evidence that it hasn't and post it or stop claiming it.

Originally posted by Hollywood11
It is true that around 1996 almost researchers doing legitimate research relevant to actual history were kicked out of Egypt.

Really?

Who, then, did all this:

The Tomb of Akhenaton's Seal Bearer (June 2007)

Three Sarcaphagi Found in Saqqara (June 2007)

Another New Discovery in Saqqara (June 2007)

Intact Tomb at Al Barsha! (May 2007)

New Discoveries at Luxor (May 2005)

New Discoveries at Abydos (May 2005)

New Discovery at Saqqara (May 2005)

Last Sarcophagus Opened at KV 63!!

NEW TOMB DISCOVERED IN THE VALLEY!!

Discovering Queen Tiye!

New Discoveries at the Valley of the Mummies!

NEW DISCOVERY FROM DYNASTY 1

New 26th Dynasty Mummy Discovered!

New Pyramid Discovered at Abu Rowash

Discovery at El-Mataryia

Source
Not to mention various other finds made in Egypt.

You really don't watch these things, do you?

Originally posted by Hollywood11
It is also true that around 1999, Hawass halted all research done at the Giza plateau for at least 10 years. All scienists except him have been barred from conducting research at Giza, including Rudolp Gattenbrinbk and the teams who were studing the Sphinx and Hall of Records.

Bull.

I guess you really don't want to know, do you?
For example, from 2003:

In order to discover more about the purpose of the shafts of the so-called Queen’s Chamber, further work had to be done. The German Institute in Cairo had the concession to the Great Pyramid, and I could see that they were not interested in completing the work on the shafts. It was impossible to assign the concession to Gantenbrink as he is an individual, and the antiquities law in Egypt only allows for concessions to be granted to institutions. So I decided that the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA) would do the work instead.

In September 2003, we sent another robot into the shafts to find out what was behind the door. We opened a hole 1 cm in diameter and we sent a camera through the hole and we found another 21 cm beyond the first one.

Source

Harte

[edit on 5/14/2008 by Harte]

Originally posted by Harte
So? The info you based your earlier claims on comes from the 1970s. I told you there has been more recent work done concerning the sphinx.
Find evidence that it hasn't and post it or stop claiming it.

I quoted research from 1978 right through to 1996. You like to ignore the 1990s research however.

In about 1996 all relevant researchers were kicked out of Egypt and research on the Sphinx was halted by Hawass.

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Really?

Who, then, did all this:

When I say "relevant" research, that implies research at Giza, not the sites you're listing.

You really don't watch these things, do you?

All relevant research was halted at Giza in 1996, and all research period was halted in 1999 for a minimum of 10 years.

Originally posted by Hollywood11

Bull.

I guess you really don't want to know, do you?
For example, from 2003:

In order to discover more about the purpose of the shafts of the so-called Queen’s Chamber, further work had to be done. The German Institute in Cairo had the concession to the Great Pyramid, and I could see that they were not interested in completing the work on the shafts. It was impossible to assign the concession to Gantenbrink as he is an individual, and the antiquities law in Egypt only allows for concessions to be granted to institutions. So I decided that the Supreme Council of Antiquities (SCA) would do the work instead.

In September 2003, we sent another robot into the shafts to find out what was behind the door. We opened a hole 1 cm in diameter and we sent a camera through the hole and we found another 21 cm beyond the first one.

Source

Harte

Ummm, did you notice that it was HAWASS in control of the Gattenbrink door excavation?

I am well aware that a staged "first time" exploration of the Gattenbrink door was airewd live on television in 2002 or 3, around then. I watched it live on tv.

To call this legitimate research is a joke, and also you have no point here and your example fails because this was all controlled by Hawass.

You are uninformed if you don't know that Hawass halted all research on the Giza plateau since 1999, other than his own fake "Show" excavations.

Notice the mysteriously never followed up on the Gattenbrink door even though they said they would? Oh I guess he didn't find his Khufu satue in it lol, only Atlantean metal handles.

Care to find actual legitimate research done by someone who is NOT Hawass or connected to the egyptian goevernment? Didn't think so...

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Oh yeah, even though the door is called the "Gatenbrink" door, and he is the rightful finder and claimer of it, Rudolph Gatenbrink is kicked out of Egypt to this day by Hawass the fraud who stole Gatenbrinks find and has covered up what it really is.


[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Originally posted by Hollywood11
Oh yeah, even though the door is called the "Gatenbrink" door, and he is the rightful finder and claimer of it, Rudolph Gatenbrink is kicked out of Egypt to this day by Hawass the fraud who stole Gatenbrinks find and has covered up what it really is.
[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

The page I linked explains quite clearly that Gatenbrink has certainly not been "kicked out."

He lost his affiliation with the German Institute in Egypt. It was they that had the permit, not Gatenbrink.

No individual can legally be granted a permit to conduct archaeology anywhere in Egypt. Only Institutions and accredited Archaeological groups. Hawass does not write the laws governing activity in Egypt.

And the second exploration of the 8 by 8 inch "doors" was not framed as if it were the first. If you look, you'll also find a Nat. Geographic article on it and you will find that a Japanese firm was involved.

Hawass "stole" nothing. This fact was established only a few weeks ago in another thread right here. The thread about Hawass and "unkept promises" I believe.

Harte

Originally posted by Harte
The page I linked explains quite clearly that Gatenbrink has certainly not been "kicked out."

He lost his affiliation with the German Institute in Egypt. It was they that had the permit, not Gatenbrink.

It goes deeper than you want to accept. He is indeed kicked out by The Egyptian governemnt, Hawass, etc. They claim he leaked too much to the press for their liking so he is personally banned by the Egyptian government and the German organization who are their pawns and just do whatever they say

1. The 'Door' In The Great Pyramid

In March 1993, a small 'door' made of marble or limestone with two copper handles fixed on it was discovered by a mechanized robot (Upuaut II, "The opener of the way" in ancient Egyptian) at the end of a long narrow shaft (8 x 8 inches and 200 feet long). Since then the discoverer, robotics engineer Rudolf Gantenbrink from Munich, has been banned from resuming the exploration and opening the door.

The official reason given by the Egyptian Antiquities Authorities (known as the Supreme Council of Antiquities - SCA - ) was that Gantenbrink leaded the news of the discovery to the British Press in April 1993 and thus, apparently, broke a 'rule' of archaeology. The director of the German Archaeological Institute in Cairo, Dr. Rainer Stadelmann, sided with the Egyptians and condemned Gantenbrink for his press action. Dr. Stadelmann was adamant about the non-importance of the find. "This is not a door; there is nothing behind it." The President of the Supreme Council for Antiquities, Dr. Muhamad Bakr, went as far as claiming a 'hoax'. "The orifice of the shaft is too small for the robot to go through" and accused the "German scientist" of not having the correct 'approvals' from the SCA to carry out the exploration.

Dr. Bakr fired the Chief Inspector of the Giza Pyramid Plateau, Dr. Zahi Hawass, although the official reason given was that a valuable ancient 'statue' under the custody of Hawass was stolen from Giza. Three months later, in June 1993, Dr. Bakr himself was fired and replaced by Dr. Nur El Din. Amid accusations of malpractice and fraud, Dr. Bakr spoke of a "Mafia" which had been involved with the Pyramids for the "last twenty years". Refusing to give names, Dr. Bakr said, "I wanted the whole matter investigated by the prosecution authorities, but my request was refused."

No individual can legally be granted a permit to conduct archaeology anywhere in Egypt. Only Institutions and accredited Archaeological groups. Hawass does not write the laws governing activity in Egypt.

It's very strange then that the Egyptians would ban specific individuals.

Hawass has a huge influence on the laws concerning archaeology in Egypt actually. He will petition the government for new laws and will often get them. He's so hypocritical he calls for the death penalty on anyone who takes artificts from Egypt even if they found them first, as if he or the government owns all finds in Egypt. It's pathetic because he was caught planting evidence and stealing artifacts to use to plant at sites about 10 years ago.

And the second exploration of the 8 by 8 inch "doors" was not framed as if it were the first. If you look, you'll also find a Nat. Geographic article on it and you will find that a Japanese firm was involved.

Yeah Hawass is a fool. On tv live he claims it's the first time anyone went past the door.

You seem to be confusing exploring the first door with actually going past the first door.

Hawass "stole" nothing. This fact was established only a few weeks ago in another thread right here. The thread about Hawass and "unkept promises" I believe.

He stole the Gatenbrink door from Rudolp Gatnebrink the rightful discoverer. Hawass has no right to it. Gatenbrink deserves to research it before anyone else.




[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

shiiiit, they'll fake anything. What a joke, ok, if they find a "statue" of khufu in the Gatenbrink door then there is absolutely no doubt Hawass is a complete fraud
www.redmoonrising.com...

Unknown symbols in the Pyramid shaft "door"? A triangle with a circle inside? on the left side of the door?

In March 1993, a small 'door' made of marble or limestone with two copper handles fixed on it was discovered by a mechanized robot (Upuaut II, "The opener of the way" in ancient Egyptian) at the end of a long narrow shaft (8 x 8 inches and 200 feet long). Since then the discoverer, robotics engineer Rudolf Gantenbrink from Munich, has been banned from resuming the exploration and opening the door.

forums.atlantisrising.com...;f=2;t=000539






forums.atlantisrising.com...;f=14;t=000031



Actually Pyramids were built by Thoth, not Khufu

www.crystalinks.com...

Originally posted by Harte


The page I linked explains quite clearly that Gatenbrink has certainly not been "kicked out."

He lost his affiliation with the German Institute in Egypt. It was they that had the permit, not Gatenbrink.

Ok, you're basically in denial and making weak arguments.

The german organization kicked him out AT THE REQUEST of the corrupt Egyptians and frauds like Hawass.

The wbsite of Hawass is not a credible source. Oh yeah, it was "impossible" to get Gatenbrink involved again. Hawass really wanted to but....BULL#!

Get it?

[edit on 14-5-2008 by Hollywood11]

Yea there's a hall of records underneath the sphinx. Sorry you can't see it. The problem? I lost the freaking key in the sand and I havent been able to find the dang thing. It sucks cause my car keys were also on that key ring. Gah I hate it when I loose stuff.

I don't know what is underneath the sphinx a lot of authorities claim that it's solid bedrock underneath the sphinx and that the whole thing is just a statue that was built over an existing rock outcroping.

The best authorities, like geologist Dr. Schoch claim it's not natural in the way it's shaped, plus it has something in it.

It's true though that no archaeologist knows how to enter it anyways

This is pretty interesting reading. There are schematics later on in the article.

In defense of Hollywood, it's pretty well known that Hawass is a glory hound.

Another one he stole was the tomb of Osiris first entered by people in 1996, Joseph Schor and Borris Said, and then Hawass comes along claiming he discovered it in 1999.

I think there's more here than being a glory hound. Why no follow up on the gatenbrink door? Why just a "show" excavation of it? Why the halting of all research at the Giza plateau by anyone but Hawass in 1999? Something is not right here.....

Schoch has never made such a claim, and neither has any geologist.

All the stuff about Gatenbrink has been gone over and over here at ATS repeatedly, and even (again) quite recently - what you posted and linked to was not what happened - not even according top Graham Hancock and John Anthony West, both of whom signed a letter stating that the entire story was fabricated.

I'm not doing your research for you. The information about this is posted right here at ATS.

I'm not going over it again for somebody that simply cannot accept the truth even when it bites him in the butt.

Harte



[edit on 5/14/2008 by Harte]