Im voting for Mccain

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Um .... what's that got to do with anything? I musta missed something here.
[edit on 5/13/2008 by FlyersFan]

Common thing I see here on ATS these days. Members have tunnel vision on their points only. This quote you above is so indicative of everything you have said this far, you are generalizing (only speaking of late term abortions, as if that's all that are done), polarizing the subject (committing murder), and blatantly ignoring all circumstances that reside outside of your selfish logic.

You should sell some of your stock in "Abortion" because it's clouding your ability to have perspective. Bottom line, abortion will never be fully repealed, presidents will say anything to get elected, and they can't do much to change the law anyway, so stop basing votes simply because of something that makes no promises. That is the reason for this discussion. Personally, I wish that all babies are born a place in the correct set of loving arms. However, I this desire won't make me vote for McCain, who yells at female reporters who ask simple questions.

AAC

[edit on 13-5-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Members have tunnel vision on their points only. This quote you above is so indicative of everything you have said this far, ....

Unfreak'n believable. :shk:

I wasn't 'making a point' I was ASKING A QUESTION. I had NO IDEA why you jumped from one subject to the other. There was no flow. I ASKED A QUESTION.

You assume too much.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Here's something I found interesting:

McCain Voted with the Bush Administration 89 Percent of the Time. Since President Bush took office, McCain has supported Bush’s positions 89 percent of the time. McCain’s support of Bush’s policies reached as high as 95 percent in 2007. [Congressional Quarterly Voting Study, 110th Congress]

SRC: www.aflcio.org...

89%? Scary. 95% in '07? Scarier.

Oh, BTW, I should probably mention that this was higher than any other Senator.

[edit on 5/13/2008 by bigbert81]

Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by easynow

 

so let me get this striaght...hundreds of thousands of people have lost their homes, the middle class is being decimated by rising costs compared to stagnant wages, 47 million people with no healthcare, a war that has cost thousands of american servicemens lives, and hundreds of billions of tax dollars; american kids that are collage graduates having to compete with low wage grad transplants from other countries. and your basing your decision on abortion??? you're a republicans wet dream.

once again... .....i am not basing my decision on just the abortion issue. fyi

wich candidate are you gonna vote for ?.......wich one(that actually has a chance of winning) has all the magic answers to fix all the problems you have stated ? please tell us...

at least i have the guts to say who i am voting for and some reasons why..........can you do the same ?

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by easynow

 

i will sleep really good for the next four years if i know my vote helped in someway to keep Obama out of the White House. ...

Please, look at what McCain brings to the table before you decide this above quote.

A man who supports torture, and a perpetual war that will push us into a 3rd world country, and a corporate tool. A man who voted against bringing aid to Katrina victims.

Please, think about things like this.

can you show me where it say's that he supports torture ? because it seems to me that you are wrong...

# Hiding torture is wrong, and harms US credibility abroad. (Dec 2007)
# Waterboarding is torture; we're not going to torture people. (Nov 2007)
# Waterboarding is torture; & as A.G., Mukasey will declare it. (Nov 2007)
# Torture supported only by people without military experience. (Sep 2007)
# Torture is ineffective as interrogation & for world opinion. (May 2007)
# Close Guantanamo Bay prison; announce no-torture policy. (Apr 2007)
# Torture has never worked throughout history. (Apr 2007)
Vietnam

www.ontheissues.org...
John McCain on the Issues


i agree that McCain dropped the ball on Katrina aid and i believe he voted against it because he thought it would raise the deficit.

McCain also complicated life for Republican leaders when, after the Bush administration's bungled response to Hurricane Katrina, they raced to recover with a sizable emergency-aid plan. He instead joined a bloc of conservatives who cautioned about adding too much of the aid directly to the deficit. Last Thursday, on a trip to New Orleans, he revisited the issue, saying Congress had been too busy putting money into home-state projects to spend enough to protect New Orleans.

www.iht.com...
Republicans wonder which John McCain will be president - International Herald Tribune

Please, think about things like this.

there are good and bad things about all candidates but here is something i think you should think about ...

# 2001: questions harsh penalties for drug dealing. (Oct 2007)
# Not first candidate to use drugs, but first honest about it. (Oct 2007)
# Do not lower drinking age from 21 to 18. (Sep 2007)
# Experimented with coc aine but turned down heroin. (Aug 2007)
# A "secret smoker", especially around reporters. (Aug 2007)
# Smokes cigarettes now; smoked some pot in high school. (Feb 2007)
# Admitted marijuana use in high school & college. (Jan 2007)
# Deal with street-level drug dealing as minimum-wage affair. (Oct 2006)
# Understand why youngsters want to use drugs. (Aug 1996)
# Require chemical resellers to certify against meth use. (Sep 2007)

www.ontheissues.org...
Barack Obama on the Issues


do i want to vote for a former drug user ?

oh wait ...maybe he didnt inhale


think about it

Look who McCain's contributions come from....

www.humanevents.com...

Is he just another corporate whore?

He doesn't care about the American workingman. Elitist pig!

Originally posted by whaaa
Look who McCain's contributions come from....

www.humanevents.com...

Is he just another corporate whore?

He doesn't care about the American workingman. Elitist pig!

you forgot to mention Clinton and Obama...

seems they are in the same boat


www.humanevents.com...
Top 10 Contributors to Clinton and Obama Presidential Campaigns - HUMAN EVENTS

[edit on 13-5-2008 by easynow]

I'll concede that easynow

But being as how Bushes Economy has tanked my small business [gas prices kicked out my profit] and forced me to get a job and I am now a proud member of ITASE local 480.
And the GOP isn't a good friend of labor.

My small business didn't get any subsidies or tax break like the oil companies. While they show record profits, I'm in bankruptcy court.

BTW Iv'e been a Republican since l980, when I first got my business license. It's about the economy Stupid!

Almost every small businessman I know is in the same boat as I.

I believe Lou Dobbs got it right when he said that the Bush admin. has declared war on the Middle class and I think McCain will continue what Bush started.

Permit me to reiterate....It's about the economy STUPID!!





[edit on 13-5-2008 by whaaa]

[edit on 13-5-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by easynow


So abortion first, and then marijuana next?

C'mon man, look at the issues and the honesty here. What are you concerned about that Obama did some drugs in the past and admitted it?

And to answer your question:

thinkprogress.org...

www.antiwar.com...

Pretty crazy that it's a bigger deal to you about using (says in an insane voice) DRUGS!!!

reply to post by bigbert81

So abortion first, and then marijuana next?

abortion and drugs are important issues imo.

correct me if i am wrong(wich i am sure you will...lol) he seems to be weak on the war on drugs. is it because he used them and maybe like it ?

What are you concerned about that Obama did some drugs in the past and admitted it?

i think someone that openly admits they have used illegal drugs is a bad role model for this country. its that simple.

reply to post by bigbert81

Pretty crazy that it's a bigger deal to you about using (says in an insane voice) DRUGS!!!

so i guess non of the issues i have brought up are as important to you as the war on terror issue. i am guessing that since Obama has said he would withdraw the troops from Iraq you are supporting him for that main reason........ am i right ?

the war in Iraq will not be over for us untill every one of the troops come home.......and that is not going to happen anytime soon.

all he can do is have some troop reduction that will eventually backfire imo.

The plan allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain as basic force protection, to engage in counter-terrorism, and to continue the training of Iraqi security forces. If the Iraqis are successful in meeting the thirteen benchmarks for progress laid out by the Bush Administration, this plan also allows for the temporary suspension of the redeployment, provided Congress agrees that the benchmarks have been met and that the suspension is in the national security interest of the United States.

obama.senate.gov...
Obama Offers Plan to Stop Escalation of Iraq War, Begin Phased Redeployment of Troops | U.S. Senator Barack Obama


redeployment of the forces will lower the number of troops wich inturn will create a more dangerous situation for the troops that have to stay and try to train untrainable Iraq soldiers.

its not going to work and Obama has got everyone Bamboozled...imo

Originally posted by easynow


redeployment of the forces will lower the number of troops wich inturn will create a more dangerous situation for the troops that have to stay and try to train untrainable Iraq soldiers.

Hey, easynow, How long do you think it will take to train untrainable Iraqi solders. How many US troops will it take to train untrainable Iraqi soldiers.

I'm having a very hard time following your logic.







[edit on 13-5-2008 by whaaa]

reply to post by whaaa

Hey, easynow, How long do you think it will take to train untrainable Iraqi solders. How many US troops will it take to train untrainable Iraqi soldiers.

I'm having a very hard time following your logic.

these are the questions you should be asking mr. Obama....and President Bush....not me...it's their logic

they are untrainable because they will not stay loyal to the cause. extremists will threaten to kill them and their families if they dont join the extremists.

Muhannad al-Samarra'i, 31, a policeman in Samarra, said he received direct threats from these extremist groups to quit work for the police force in the city; otherwise, he will be killed along with his family if he continued to work with the government, which they described as collaborator. He added: "These groups are tightening their grip on the city and its people in the absence of government security establishments, which have weak presence, and only in the center of the city." He said that US forces look on what is happening in the city and on what those groups are doing without really intervening to eliminate them. US forces sometimes let these groups do what they want in the city and its helpless people."

www.aawsat.com...
Iraqis Fleeing Samarra Say Extremists Control City Asharq Alawsat Newspaper (English)


ok so Obama plan A isnt going to work so whats plan B ?



[edit on 14-5-2008 by easynow]

reply to post by easynow

so i guess non of the issues i have brought up are as important to you as the war on terror issue. i am guessing that since Obama has said he would withdraw the troops from Iraq you are supporting him for that main reason........ am i right ?

Actually, no. You are not right. There are several reasons. Have you just blown off the torture thing? Or the 95% Bush Administration voting record?

Look, I don't have any delusions about what might happen. Maybe we can pull out, maybe not. Maybe things can get worse, maybe not.

What I do know, is that this war is succeeding in plunging this country into a third world country because we cannot afford it, plus other reasons. There is a reason this war was illegal in the first place. We need someone who opposes this war and tries to put an end to it, instead of someone who thinks we can win a war on a tactic, an ideal. This is another perpetual war, like the war on drugs, and will not end, but at least we can get someone who can help to minimize it.

McCain is obviously not this man.

reply to post by bigbert81

Have you just blown off the torture thing? Or the 95% Bush Administration voting record?

all politicians are flip floppers imo and McCain is no different. they will say whatever they have to to get elected.

Obama said he would not wear the flag pin and now he is wearing it....so he is a flip flopper also.

i am sure you already now that i dont like any of the choices that we have. but there is no way i am gonna vote for Obama and if not McCain i will not vote at all. sad isnt it ?

[edit on 14-5-2008 by easynow]

Obama said he would not wear the flag pin and now he is wearing it

Hmmm, I must be out of the loop.

Can you show me where he said he wouldn't? Because from the very first day when he was criticized for it, he never refused to do so.

Oh, and I strongly suggest you study McCain's flip-flopping compared to anyone else. He flip-flops even more than Hillary (and that's pretty bad). You can't trust him at all.

[edit on 5/14/2008 by bigbert81]

reply to post by bigbert81


heres two clips showing him saying that he wont wear it....


www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Obama Stops Wearing American Flag Pin


www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Obama explains why no Lapel pin



and now shown wearing it.....


www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Now obama wears flag pin 5-13-08 - He really does!


its not a huge issue for me...but the point is...he flip flopped on it....all politicians are flip floppers

reply to post by easynow


Ok, I'll concede that point.

However, you seriously need to see the other candidates' issues they've gone back on, compared to a flag pin. And before you say anything, yes, it IS easier to flip-flop on wearing a lapel pin than something like torture.

www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com...

reply to post by alienstar


I think McCain is the best one running.I truely believe he will keep this nation safe and has the best experience in handling it all.He isnt "wet behind the ears.It amazes me how many people think the economy is the number one issue for our nation right now when we have terrorists in other countries(epecially Iran) that want to blow us all to peices.What good would a good economy be then,,we wont have a country then to worry about if we are all killed off by bombs.Come on everyone,lets get real.I am not saying we shouldnt put the economy "up there" in utmost importance.If our country would "stop" giving out so many "freebees" to people that are not American citizens and keep our jobs here at home it would sure make a big difference on our economy along with NOT raising taxes.They are high enough,why would anyone vote for a person that would want to raise taxes???If people think it would only be the rich,,its time to take a long hard look,,last time a President hopeful said he would only raise taxes on the rich or people making so much money,,well,it ended up raising taxes on everyone!!I havent had my taxes raised since the 90's..McCain would be really good for this country.Being he served and is well honored and respected,being tortured during war,he would be very unlikely to want to send anymore troops needlessly to be killed and especially be against torture.He is a good middle of the road man.He understands the wants of most Americans,not just the left or the right but those in the middle.unlike the other 2 canidates that only have a very narrow margin to serve in mind.The President of the US is to serve us all,not just a certain set of people.This is the way I see it...Nina

Originally posted by bigbert81
89%? Scary. 95% in '07? Scarier.

Very good info berti. McCain isn't the 'maverick' that he wants people to think he is. He did follow the party vote much of the time, didn't he?

Mccain isn't the 'maverick' that he wants people to think he is.
I still say he isn't BushII. Bush isn't even BushI. Cheney runs things.

Originally posted by whaaa
Bushes Economy has tanked my small business [

Just wait until obama's tax increases hit the economy. It'll be worse.

And that lovely world poverty tax he wants to impose on us. UGH!

Originally posted by easynow
abortion and drugs are important issues imo.

.. and you are entitled to your vote to be based upon what you feel is important.

As i said - it is a good measure of society to see how they treat their sick and their helpless. No one is more helpless then the pre-born. The way they are treated says a lot about our society. If you wish to vote in such a way to change that .... by all means then vote that way.

Originally posted by whaaa
train untrainable Iraqi solders.

Saddam had them trained rather well. I don't understand what is taking so long. Train 'em and then get the hell out. It should be done by now. The Bush admin. is mucking it up. (and McCain agrees with that !!)

Originally posted by bigbert81
this war is succeeding in plunging this country into a third world country

Who? I can't folllow? The USA or Iraq is 'third world' according to you? Neither is, ya' know.

this war was illegal in the first place.

No it wasn't.

- It was approved through our laws so according to America it is not illegal.
- The UN has no authority over our soverign actions and so for anyone to say that it is 'illegal' because the UN didn't approve it ... well, that's wrong. They aren't the world police. They are just a corrupt anti-american cesspool of criminals.